FxrAndy Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 I think the first one is real. I would say they are both the same watch that pugwash go tthe other day for $35 was it? The botom shot is taken fron slightly thurther away and at a slight angle from the first. But i might be wrong Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 I would say they are both the same watch that pugwash go tthe other day for $35 was it? The botom shot is taken fron slightly thurther away and at a slight angle from the first. Yes, it's the same €35 watch taken from two angles. To make matters worse, neither of them is correct. The date alignment on that watch is perfectly fine, but I deliberately took two pictures from different distances and angles to show how easy it is to get it slightly off and present what would normally be an accurate rep as a flawed one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachshund Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 The original topic implied that the pictures were taken to hide flaws,primararly date fonts in question. What difference does it make, if it's a dealers picture in question, with very few exceptions you are not going to receive the watch that was photographed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 They used to do it to hide the old white-that-should-be-black date wheels and "officne", but the only one I really notice these days is the Seamasters--there are a few exceptions, but mostly the intent is to disguise the HE valve position. You can find a few straight on shots, but you can find just as many shots w/ the bezel turned slightly left to make the valve appear higher. If you're worried about it, wait for a review before buying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 They used to do it to hide the old white-that-should-be-black date wheels and "officne", but the only one I really notice these days is the Seamasters--there are a few exceptions, but mostly the intent is to disguise the HE valve position. Ok, I've heard enough hearsay. Show me these dealer pics that hide flaws. I'll be here all day, I can wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) Me too......I love conspiracy theories.....if ALL the dealers are doing it....why isn't the board overflowing with complaints about how the members didn't receive what was shown in the photo....so 'fess up......where are all the unhappy campers.....! every shot you see of a po is taken to make the hands look the correct lenth. [censored]...! yes they absolutly do it to hide the flaws.{/quote] EVEN MORE [censored]...! REQUIRED......by who.......YOU.....dream on...! Interesting that the points above are raised by members who have less than 100 posts and have been members for approx 3 months.......experts ALL....! It's a lot of [censored]......! What is....? 45 Tonnes...! Edited July 10, 2006 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eddielee11 Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) it is not that easy to take the pics that everyone wants. some want to see the perfect crown guard some want date mag some want to see all engraving. some want to see the thickness of the font printed on the dial some want to see the hologram some want to see the serial number on the submariner, explorer2...etc datejust....etc. some want to see the thickness of the crystal some want to see the movt some want to see the back of the backcap some want to see the thickness of the crown...next to a microcaliber some want to see the thickness of the gasket...next to a microcaliber some want to see the night lume. some want to see the font is it like original or not.---better to have it next to genuine sub some want to see the embossed leather band some want to see the submerged piece in water some want to see date set at 11 or 24th of the month some want to see the time set at 10: 10 some want to see the time set at 4:15 some want to see the piece taken next to the submariner or a dollar bill some want to see the piece and wear the watch before paying for it. you will not believe what some members are asking these days. Edited July 10, 2006 by eddielee11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eddielee11 Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 honest opinion.... river and ttk are the best photographers on the forum. and by the time if all the demands are fullfilled, it will be xmas time in 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) Hi Eddie.....sorry to hear about your latest problem mate.....hope it's all A-OK.....! You know Eddie.....i think it's time we dealers(?) got together and decided what terms we should offer on these items.....too much is being taken for granted by a lot of people here......! Contact me....usual number.....or Skype me.......! Edited July 10, 2006 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 honest opinion.... river and ttk are the best photographers on the forum. and by the time if all the demands are fullfilled, it will be xmas time in 2009 I am certainly no expert photographer here, not even close, but I think it's just a natural inclination to photograph anything that you are trying to give some visual interest to at something of an angle. I think it's advertising 101 good sense, not a conspiracy to hide flaws. How many of us love the classic straight on "mug shot" photo of ourselves that graces our drivers licenses and work IDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miquel Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 All the dealer pics I have seen have been at multiple angles. If you carefully study all the pictures, then look at gens as well, that should solve problems. Scrutinize the pictures, ask the dealer(s) questions, and do your homework. When I purchased my first rep, I studied all the pics, asked a lot of questions, and checked with genuines. I then read all the dealer/rep reviews I could. This is an industry where the customer has to do the legwork before they buy. You cannot expect perfection for a couple hundred bucks. I think the dealers here are very exceptional and are excellent photographers. Where else can you find an honest business person in a dishonest industry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 I am certainly no expert photographer here, not even close, but I think it's just a natural inclination to photograph anything that you are trying to give some visual interest to at something of an angle. I think it's advertising 101 good sense, not a conspiracy to hide flaws. How many of us love the classic straight on "mug shot" photo of ourselves that graces our drivers licenses and work IDs? I know exactly what you mean. Here's two pictures of me. The first one taken directly head on: and one taken with my head slightly turned: It's amazing. Damn those cheatin dealers! JTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 it makes it somewhat difficult to tell the accuracy. it makes me think they're trying to hide the flaws. well how about this as a guess (this is truely a guess from the uninformed) many of these watches do not come with AR coating.. I would imagine the reflection would screw up the shot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 I know exactly what you mean. Here's two pictures of me. The first one taken directly head on: and one taken with my head slightly turned: It's amazing. Damn those cheatin dealers! JTB Oh God that's funny. People ar staring at me laughing out loud in my office!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 well how about this as a guess (this is truely a guess from the uninformed) many of these watches do not come with AR coating.. I would imagine the reflection would screw up the shot... Sort of. The problem is that the crystal is pointed straight at the camera lens meaning if it's truly head-on and not excellently lit, you'll see the camera, and usually some little Asian bloke's head. It's rather funny like that. What you need to do (if you want the simple quick way) is cast everything in front of the watch into shadow so there's nothing to reflect, which is how I took the DayDate pics earlier. Why do you think Pro cameras come in black? Still, even if the dealers were to try it, someone would still complain. Eddie captured what demanding customers can be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaval Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Totally n00bster here, reading and stuff... I don't care much about this topic much since I can't really tell all those details you freak about but... omg... what's that Seamaster Co-Axial #241!!!??? Im... in... love. Want... one... where??? More pics pleeeeease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk45ca Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Sort of. The problem is that the crystal is pointed straight at the camera lens meaning if it's truly head-on and not excellently lit, you'll see the camera, and usually some little Asian bloke's head. It's rather funny like that. What you need to do (if you want the simple quick way) is cast everything in front of the watch into shadow so there's nothing to reflect, which is how I took the DayDate pics earlier. Why do you think Pro cameras come in black Still, even if the dealers were to try it, someone would still complain. Eddie captured what demanding customers can be like.the pictures and other peoples opinons are all we have to go by when deciding to purchace. i know everybody tries to take the best looking picture that they can but i like a strait shot so i can try and make a more informed decesion, thats all, it's not rocket science. i'm not talking about a shot trying make beautiful picture, just a shot of the dial so i can take a good look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) Me too......I love conspiracy theories.....if ALL the dealers are doing it....why isn't the board overflowing with complaints about how the members didn't receive what was shown in the photo....so 'fess up......where are all the unhappy campers.....! [censored]...! REQUIRED......by who.......YOU.....dream on...! Interesting that the points above are raised by members who have less than 100 posts and have been members for approx 3 months.......experts ALL....! It's a lot of [censored]......! What is....? 45 Tonnes...! Please be senstive to the fact that people do not always express themselves in the manner in which they mean to.. I think that may the case in this instance. I do not believe this person meant to imply that the dealers were shady although I can see where his message could have been taken that way.. instead i believe he was suggesting that when he does not see photos taken from a 'straight on' perspective' he wonders about what he is NOT seeing. Granted his oberservations may not be correct in all instances (as you have demonstrated) and there are legitimate reasons why these photos may exist in others (as has also been demonstrated) , but as a prospective indicating what he is looking for, this person is doing the dealers a favor. He is telling you what he would like to see in order to help him buy your product. His request may not be doable on all instances but he does not know that.. he is just laying it out there. The reason I mention all of this is because I am beginning to see some small amount of noobie slamming on this board. These people (including me) represent potential new markets for the dealers, high value markets that are aquired with little or no marketing effort. In most industries, suppliers would kill for type of access to these types of markets, but as a result of this board, it comes to the dealers who participate here with little advertising cost or marketing effort. In addtion, noobies represent a fresh perspective for the forum at large. As a general rule, without new blood, social groups run the risk of becoming sort of inwardly focused and stale. Sorry about the soapbox preaching.. take the comments with however many grains of salt you wish. Edited July 10, 2006 by eddhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Please be senstive to the fact that people do not always express themselves in the manner in which they mean to.. I think that may the case in this instance. I do not believe this person meant to imply that the dealers were shady although I can see where his message could have been taken that way.. instead i believe he was suggesting that when he does not see photos taken from a 'straight on' perspective' he wonders about what he is NOT seeing. Granted his oberservations may not be correct in all instances (as you have demonstrated) and there are legitimate reasons why these photos may exist in others (as has also been demonstrated) , but as a prosective buyer telling you what he is looking for, this person is doing the dealers a favor. He is telling you what he would like to see in order to help him buy your product. His request may not be doable on all instances but he does not know that.. he is just laying it out there. The reason I mention all of this is because I am beginning to see a measure of noobie slamming on this board. These people (including me) represent potential new markets for the dealers, high value markets that are aquired with little or no marketing effort. In most industries, suppliers would kill for type of access to these types of markets, but as a result of this board, it ces to the dealers who participate here with little advertising cost or marketing effort. In addtion, noobies represent a fresh perspective for the forum at large. As a general rule, without new blood, social groups run the risk of becoming sort of inwardly focused and stale. Sorry about the soapbox preaching.. take the comments with however many grains of salt you wish. The initiation hazing here can be a little rough, hence the newbie section where the waters are a little less choppy. You'll find with time most of the seasoned posters here are pretty tolerant of naieve questions and are willing to share information. Like with most groups, some are crankier than others but on the whole, the tone here is very positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 The initiation hazing here can be a little rough, hence the newbie section where the waters are a little less choppy. You'll find with time most of the seasoned posters here are pretty tolerant of naieve questions and are willing to share information. Like with most groups, some are crankier than others but on the whole, the tone here is very positive. Well maybe I am one of those persons who do not always express themselves appropriately LOL . For the record, I have been participating in this forum since March and have benefitted greatly from the patience and knowledge base of several seasoned members...most of whom have been very generous with their time and with info sharing via PM's. I personally have not been slammed (although the day is young) however, occassionally I read a response to a new person's post, or an assumption from a member that makes me cringe in sympathy for what I know will happen next. (Actually, sometimes it is kind of funny.) Having said that, this can be an intimidating place for people breaking into the hobby. There is a lot of information on the site, but it is not all that easy to find.. in turn, that causes people to ask questions on subjects that may be pinned. I realize that frustrates some of the senior members and I can see why, but I can also understand why the question pop up. Also, the members have an awesome level of subject matter expertise.. far more than many new participants, which is also very intimidatin... I know if you ask correctly you'll get the info you need, but not everyone is capable of expressing themselves well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Ok, I've heard enough hearsay. Show me these dealer pics that hide flaws. I'll be here all day, I can wait. Hope you didn't have to wait too long on this pressing issue Of course we can debate motive all day long, but to me it's prima fascia evidence that the majority of pics of valve-free, rotating-bezeled watches like, say, Submariners have the bezels smack dab @ 12:00 and the majority of SMP pics look like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletch512 Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Here's my anecdotal addition. Josh came out with some new subs a while back. At the time there was some discussion as to whether the cyclops was too far to the right, as was the case with the old Chinese versions of the watch. All the pictures on his site were taken at an angle, so there was no way to tell. I e-mailed and asked whether there was a problem with the positioning. I was told absolutely not. I ordered the watch, with eta movement, so it was more than $200 with shipping. Sure enough, when the watch arrived, the cyclops was too far to the right. The date window actually touched the left side of the cyclops with empty space on the right side (when viewed straight on). If it's just a coincidence that the picture angles covered up this flaw, then it's a mighty big coincidence. Likewise, the pictures of the Panerai reps that have the cyclops & date window are usually taken from angles. Not surprisingly, the biggest faults in these models are the crappy date font and distorted cyclops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 For the record, I have been participating in this forum since March and have benefitted greatly from the patience and knowledge base of several seasoned members. Me too. I'm a n00b but I think I pushed past the hazing, or I just didn't notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 If you're using the bezel as an indicator for the position of the HE valve....then you need to get your head sorted out.....and / or your sense of perspective......the HE valve position should always be determined in relation to the 10 indice....( where appropriate ).........both are static...the bezel isn't...so where it lines up is of no consequence....except for lining up at 12.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk45ca Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Hope you didn't have to wait too long on this pressing issue Of course we can debate motive all day long, but to me it's prima fascia evidence that the majority of pics of valve-free, rotating-bezeled watches like, say, Submariners have the bezels smack dab @ 12:00 and the majority of SMP pics look like this:this is exactly what i was talking about. do the hands on the po look good to you? they do to me. i almost bought one of these until i seen a reveiw from somebody that did and i looked at the picture they took of it. needless to say i still don't own one of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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