yt74 Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Like the title says, what do you think?? http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=8232&hl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswho Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) photos look nice, but i can't really see the pearl in those shots, we need some more macro ones going on. *edit* just seen the pics on his main site. on a price point of view, 400 dollars for a sub seems quite high, unless it really is 'perfect' Edited July 12, 2006 by guesswho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 It looks like a nice watch, but you should compare the CGs to the "perfect" Sub Joshua is selling - Joshua's are milled down and the case is recontoured too. I can tell mine with my eyes closed just by the fel of the case and I have a few subs. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www_watch Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Looks pretty much like a PT Ultimate with unmodded CG´s and smaller crown. As guesswho said I´d also like to see some more close-ups. By the way.... I don´t think you´ll get a warranty on the watch being water-proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) If that watch is "perfect" my name is Hubertus von Hohenlohe. Don't believe the hype. Dial is excellent. But absolutely horrible crown guards, huge crystal etching...and why do you think the pearl isn't showing? Edited July 12, 2006 by By-Tor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shasta Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 The CGs suck, and the pearl is the same ol' flat pearl as lots of other sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvio Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 I personally think it's still far from perfect. Many mods to be done yet: CG, lugs, insert, etc. My 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 It looks like a nice watch, but you should compare the CGs to the "perfect" Sub Joshua is selling - Joshua's are milled down and the case is recontoured too. I can tell mine with my eyes closed just by the fel of the case and I have a few subs. Bill Hey Bill, Why don't you get a few more subs? BTW, You watches look great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcher71 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 There is no perfect sub (other than the one sold by rolex), nor is there any perfect rep...period. And I think our dealers should know better than to make that claim...especially on these forums. Several dealers seem to be using words such as "perfect" lately. Horseshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) Like the title says, what do you think?? http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=8232&hl= Cosmetically, it looks no more or less PERFECT than lots of Sub reps currently being sold. I won't go over the cheesiness of putting "PERFECT" in quotation marks as a marketing ploy. I question the value of the mods that make this rep more PERFECT than the rest as seems like 80% hype and 20% substance. 1) why would you need to tear down and rebuild a genuine brand-new Swiss ETA? The chances of one having problems out of the box are less than even a skilled watchsmith messing it up inadvertently -- either way, close to zero. So why do this, except to say you did it? 2) Swiss-imported lubricants? This may be true, but other than tossing around the word "Swiss" in there because we all love it so much we want to marry it, what's the actual value and advantage of using Swiss-imported lubricants? If there is none discernable what's the big deal? 3) Tuned to meet "COSC standards?" Any genuine ETA movement can be easily tuned by a half-competent watchsmith to be accurate within +/-5 sec assuming it doesn't meet this accuracy out of the box. However, that's not what the COSC standard is, it involves maintaining this accuracy under various conditions, which I doubt this watch is tested for. So to say the watch meets COSC standards (admittedly pretty near automatic these days anyway) because it runs +/-5 sec sitting flat on a watchsmith's workbench is a bit misleading as that's just one part of the test and frankly the easiest one to pass. 4) The waterproofing is another aspect that seems a bit odd. As most people know, the Sub rep is pretty much water resistant to a reasonable degree, it's mostly a matter of simply making sure that the factory properly lubed and/or sealed the crystal gasket, caseback and crown O-rings. However, this rep supposedly has "additional" seals and gaskets. Really, and where would one stuff these multitudinous extra seals and gaskets without modifying the case? Deep sea diver watches like the gen 187 have double O-rings sealing the caseback, but to just to achieve 50m water resistance? 5) Swiss trained technicians do all this work? Come on, you don't need Swiss training to tune a bone-stock ETA movement and check the o-rings on a Chinese sub. I bet a competent one in China will do the work involved here for $5 a watch, if that. Again, I'm not saying this is untrue, but I question the value or advantage of this claim beyond just getting the word "Swiss" in there again. Also, I have no idea what "swiss-trained" means -- the Chinese watch company Peace Mark runs several watchsmith schools in China that purportedly teach using Swiss movements and have a few ETA-certified instructors (five total with the company) on the training staff. Is that "Swiss-trained"? I don't know, but I wouldn' be surprised if some people claimed it was. 6) Finally, this rep supposedly has the PERFECT band. However, a rep band is not PERFECT unless it has three-piece cast SEL's like the genuine item, which is far more expensive to duplicate and easier to spot than hollow midlinks anyway. I have yet to see a rep Rolex with the correct three-piece SEL's. I know I will get [censored] about "come on, they're just reps" and "it's just marketing." Yeah, bring it on. If a dealer's going to throw PERFECT in there about 10 times and charge $250 extra for mods, I want some proof it's not marketing smoke but actually something of substance. Frankly if "perfect" is just a meanless marketing phrase, how far do we have to go before "swiss movement" and "identical to genuine (bezel, band, etc." are also just meaningless marketing phrases? Why would we, as mostly consumers, want the market to go there? I'm not seeing it. Edited July 12, 2006 by kanerich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tag Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 I don't have a good experience with Trusty's Rollies. I got a $198 Yatch-Master a few monthes ago and it's yelling 'fake!' aloud. From the first second I thought 'What a [censored]', even though I'm not expert at Rolexes. Trusty claims it's got the thick hours hand like genuine but... in his website pictures the minute hand hides the hours hand: it is not a coincidence because the latter is... too thin. On top of that: - Dial color is wrong - Dust and fingerprints under the glass - Defect on bezel Trusty did not admit any of these flaws. So for sure Trusty communicates well and seems trusty so far but... sells at a high price and not always good quality! I would like to know where I can get the best Rollies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcher71 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 I would like to know where I can get the best Rollies... ya opened yourself up for this... www.rolex.com (sorry but it's true...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bignasty Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Personally I don't see the value myself but I'm no sub connoisseur. I've got a TWG Best ETA sub from stocks a few months ago and love it. Of course I paid only about $200 for it too! CG's look pretty good, bezel click is nice, date mag looks OK, bracelet quality is there and it runs great and keeps good time. Most of the other stuff is good too. If I could ask for one imporovement it would probably be a deeper rehaut. But let me say it again I'm no sub connoisseur! I love it and my 1680 ETA I got from Paul. In my opinion every watch collector should at least own one good modern sub and one good vintage one! I wear them to work as my beater watches on a daily basis! Now on the other hand if some of the Asian 7750 reps were offered with the service work I might throw some extra money in that direction but it seems pointless to me to service an ETA movement that can be replaced completely for $40-75! I will also add that I think TWG is a good dealer so if you are considering this watch but are on the fence because you have never dealt with him then don't worry he will take care of you! He is a gentlemen both during and after your purchase! Theres my 2 cents! To each his own! Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Eddie's new sub looks pretty damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bignasty Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 I don't have a good experience with Trusty's Rollies. I got a $198 Yatch-Master a few monthes ago and it's yelling 'fake!' aloud. From the first second I thought 'What a [censored]', even though I'm not expert at Rolexes. To me unless you are a lawyer or wealthy business professional YM's all scream FAKE! Sorry its just the reality of owning a watch this expensive! Trusty claims it's got the thick hours hand like genuine but... in his website pictures the minute hand hides the hours hand: it is not a coincidence because the latter is... too thin. My advice look at the pictures and buy based on what you see! If you like what you see then buy, if you don't like what you see then don't buy! On top of that: - Dial color is wrong - Dust and fingerprints under the glass - Defect on bezel Trusty did not admit any of these flaws. Never had Andrew refuse to correct any issues. You might have to send a watch back but thats understandable. You don't get a replacement for defective products with out some proof. Its unavoidable when products are drop shipped, get used to it from pretty much any dealer! Remember to build a relationship with your dealer. Once they know you they will know your words are true and things operate much more smoothly! So for sure Trusty communicates well and seems trusty so far but... sells at a high price and not always good quality! If the price is too high, buy from someone else! No one is making you deal with him! I would like to know where I can get the best Rollies... Already handled by another member! Cheers, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMK000 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Eddie and Joshua are selling the same. They all look like factory better versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 I'm with ya all the way Kanerich... marketing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polynomial Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 So, are we gona do a group buy from Rolex? Perhaps they can give us 5% discount? Seriously, all the imperfections, plus the overall quality that is nowhere close to the gen kills the idea of having a rep Sub and feeling good about it; Sub (or SD) would probably be the watch I would be willing to pay for high-street price, the only thing that keeps me from doing it is that every kid on the street has a fake, so what is the value of the brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 There is no perfect sub (other than the one sold by rolex), nor is there any perfect rep...period. And I think our dealers should know better than to make that claim...especially on these forums. Several dealers seem to be using words such as "perfect" lately. Horseshit. I agree. "1:1/ perfect/ same as original, etc," aside from being 100% lies, only clog the board with threads started by people asking if a "perfect/1:1/same as original" watches really are "perfect/1:1/same as original" Andrew is a longtime practitioner of misleading and outright false advertising, but I'm troubled that other dealers are starting to follow suit. BTW, Eddie, Jos, and PT all have better subs for less money. My local smith ("swiss trained," authorized service for VC, etc) charges 45 bucks for an ETA 2836 overhaul. Looks like Andrew is charging $135. Maybe it costs a lot to bring all that lube from Switzerland to wherever those watches are getting "serviced" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Dear Sir, It is NOT a false or misleading advertisement. "PERFECT" under inverted commas means that you get a replica close to the genuine piece but it can never be a 100% like the genuine. =) The Case is different from the other Submariners that I have and the Date Mag is the best in the class.The extra work done to overhaul the entire movement, relub, pressure tested and waterproofing done with gaskets changed will cost roughly about USD120-150. You can ask The Zigmeister or some other watch guys who do this. They charged about this price too. Warranty is given on the waterproof works. If not waterproof, I will send you a BRAND NEW piece FULLY SERVICED to you. Thats our promise. Thanks! ANDREW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswho Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 fair enough, i think the warranty on the waterproofing is prob worth $30-40 at least to somebody, especially if it will be replaced with a brand new piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 So, are we gona do a group buy from Rolex? Perhaps they can give us 5% discount? Seriously, all the imperfections, plus the overall quality that is nowhere close to the gen kills the idea of having a rep Sub and feeling good about it; Sub (or SD) would probably be the watch I would be willing to pay for high-street price, the only thing that keeps me from doing it is that every kid on the street has a fake, so what is the value of the brand? What incentive do the replica factories have to make a better submariner when almost all of the buyers are less informed about flaws than we are here and they buy them up by the tens of thousands? It seems Josh and Andrew and others are trying to attach bells and whistles and platitudes to time pieces that are far from perfect in an effort to give the appearance of bridging the gap, for semi informed buyers, between run of the mill and top of the line. The fact is we would all love a replica factory to look at a sheet of our problems with the classic sub, CGs, pearls, rehaut, print font, bracelet feel etc and come up with the ultimate in copies, but the fact is there is no advantage and gain for them in doing so. We would buy them up like wild dogs but I dont think any factory is going to re-tool for a couple of hundred replica nuts to salivate over when the stock 98% accurate replica is selling just fine. These "Perfect" and "Ultimate" and "Swiss technician serviced" submariners are just appealing repackaging of the same "as good as it gets these days" watch that we all have our particular issues with. When that true ultimate sub ever does show up, you can be sure the fireworks and sirens will go off here loud and clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 If you go to any reowned Service Center to do a FULL Service with overhaul of movement, relub and the works described, it will be about USD120-150. Thats the price you get in USA, UK. Those you do with your local watchsmith (experienced and inexperienced), I am really not sure. To be honest, I do not [censored] about this extra service done. It is really carried out by qualified swiss trained technicians located at a service center I used. They are very professional with all equipment available to service any brand of watches. It's almost one day job to get it done so everytime there is an order for this watch with a needed full service, customer will have to wait another 24 hours because the watch will be sent for the full service done. I was just very [censored] to hear that some watchsmith charged USD45 for total overhaul. I have seen many watchsmiths throughout my 5 years of trading in watches and there are some who can charge me USD30-50 but I can tell you something for sure... they might not be doing the FULL service at all... just simply maybe add some lubricant, check for timing...then send it back to you. There is no free lunch in this world. Thanks! ANDREW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 @Andrew: Why do the replica factories refuse to make the crown guards of the Submariner right? It must be intentional? Do you happen to have any "inside knowledge"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 To be honest, I do not [censored] about this extra service done. It is really carried out by qualified swiss trained technicians located at a service center I used. They are very professional with all equipment available to service any brand of watches. It's almost one day job to get it done so everytime there is an order for this watch with a needed full service, customer will have to wait another 24 hours because the watch will be sent for the full service done. Andrew, I applaud your coming here and defending your product and stating how much you stand by it. This reminds me of Precious Time standing by his gold. We should feel lucky and proud (not luckyyy) to have dealers that come here, tell us what's in their reps and do so without insulting other dealers or misleading us. Now, if they can just all get on the same page about Sapphire/Mineral Glass, we'd be in Rep heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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