Richard Tracy Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I think the problem is that three different issues are being thrown together which don't mix & match.. 1. People who take for granted the strife, problems, and great service of dealers. 2. The issue of Accuracy, dependability and QC... 3. Income waste. For: 1. The people which bring their department store mentalities into this game, are the responsibility of the board. More needs to be done to educate and obtain agreements of conduct before allowing access to our dealers. 2. This a watch forum that thrives on improvement, which in turn moves the rep industry. We effect change by voting with our money...and our accuracy geniuses... So dealers that advertise here should expect that their offerings will be scrutinized. 3. We are working people here, many with families to support. Family Financial drain, hurts in more important ways that trump the problems that dealers face in their businesses. Though I understand that each generation of watch gives birth to the next via the money womb,.. I agree that more can and should be done to bring versions to the market the first time, that are not just an afterthought, or a chance to take advantage of the 'Version Number' game. Most waste however comes from just plain faulty and sloppy Quality Control.... This is the culprit that dealers should work out... or not bother to sell.... I personally would be happy with a first generation watch, that was put together with a mindset, of care. When I open a package with a face that markers at counter angles.. dust, prints or glue marks.. then am told to send the watch back, costing me additional money and time...or told to wait for a new part that never seems to arrive.. man, it grinds me down... and takes the fun out of the hobby... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I will just say this and I think it says it all: Our fantastic dealers SPOILED us with all those beautiful watches and their amazing service which is very NORMAL to demand/want the BEST. Good or bad this is the fact.! Stop providing us watches for 6 months and then I will tell you how many people are going to buy the Quartz PO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 We'll I can't think of anything to add that already hasn't been said in some fashion. But I just wanted to thank Andrew personally for what he's done and continues to do. I've bought numerous watches from him, and his service makes you forget you're buying an "illegal" item, better service than any department store. I've ordered from others too, and the service has been just as good, but most have come from Andrew. I for one do appreciate what our dealers do for "ME". I also thank Andrew for being candid and somewhat letting us in on how the whole rep world works. Thanks Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alextor Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 We'll I can't think of anything to add that already hasn't been said in some fashion. But I just wanted to thank Andrew personally for what he's done and continues to do. I've bought numerous watches from him, and his service makes you forget you're buying an "illegal" item, better service than any department store. I've ordered from others too, and the service has been just as good, but most have come from Andrew. I for one do appreciate what our dealers do for "ME". I also thank Andrew for being candid and somewhat letting us in on how the whole rep world works. Thanks Andrew Absolutely! Andrew also posted information from 'behind the counter' on how the replica industry works that put things in perspective also. I agree, they do provide better customer service than any department store. Cheers Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Great posts on a very interesting thread. our dealers are great. And Most of our members know it. .........And the reps that are available to us on these boards are also SECOND TO NONE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dario33 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 ^ Strong agreement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrgod Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Interesting thread, which deserves a little "bump"... There are always new members who does not fully understand how things works.. I remember my first rep purchase on TRC , two years ago.. It was just a shitty 70 USD Vintage Explorer II (Steve McQuinn), but I was so scared of beeing scammed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bignasty Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 I just remember in my rural area back 8 or 10 years ago the only place to find reps was nothing short of visiting Canal St NYC on vacation. Well that and for awhile you could buy decent stuff on Yahoo's Auction site. Ebay was quick to ban them from their site because of pressure from the powers that be. I abandoned the hobby for awhile then hooked up with a couple of "amateur" dealers in China via the web. Still the quality of merchandise vs. the price was just not up to par. Still it was good to get back into the swing of things. Then last summer I visited NYC on business. So I took a day trip down to Canal and Mott streets. It was amazing how much things had changed since my last visit. Now the reps seem to be worse than they were before and very difficult to find. Now everything is done behind closed doors. 10 years ago thats all you saw right on the sidewalks. They were being sold openly with no worries. Now they take you into secret rooms and call on their Nextel phones to find you something if that one dealer doesn't have itin stock. After asking and viewing quite a few of the worst reps I've ever seen I was ready to give up. Finally a guy got me the rep I wanted. It had sapphire, a good dial, good case, and a good looking band. So I bargained, bought it, and happily went on my way. That was the last rep I bought until I stumbled across these forums a few months ago. Now lets just say, I'm back in the hobby and once again hooked! I am now amazed by the quality vs. price available here. Its also great to be able to discuss these different watches with other membes. Now I've also learned to mod and work on some of this stuff which has opened a whole new door for me. Because for me when you buy reps you just want to keep on buying them. Now I can buy a few, work on them for a while, then buy more when they are completed. It adds a bit more fun to the whole deal and slows down the drain on my wallet! I'm just really concerned that some of us may be a little too spoiled. Just hope that we all remember you don't miss what you have until its gone! Cheers, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerco Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Interesting thread, which deserves a little "bump"... There are always new members who does not fully understand how things works.. I remember my first rep purchase on TRC , two years ago.. It was just a shitty 70 USD Vintage Explorer II (Steve McQuinn), but I was so scared of beeing scammed... Starting buying reps I had similar feelings, but now I trust every dealer i am doing business with. I've bought a lot of watches, and never any problems.... So i'm staying & buying........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 I don't understand why we make things so complex. A dealer sales something that a buyer buy. That's all! The dealer earn money and must be fair when making business. The buyer must understand the rules the dealer has and buy or not depending on his personal decision and agreement to those rules. This what is called business! There's no need to applause for things that are (or must be) considered as usual way of doing. I'm buying in this forum to some dealers because I'm happy with them and the service and qality they provide me. When the fail (meaning do not follow elemental business rules or/and they own ones) then I don't buy anymore. Therefore, my personal opinion is that we don't need to make a drama about dealers situation. Just aknowledge their honestly to us and critic them when we do not receive a good service. Like in any other business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 I think people wait for the second revision in lots of products if they have doubts about the first... for instance I refuse to purchase any computer not made by apple and would like a new powerbook (even though the current one is not even a year old). But, I have one that works so I passed on the new intel-based one to wait for the second version; get the bugs out. Lots of us have many reps we are quite happy with. It seems normal to develop a "wait and see" attitude at some point. After a collection gets big enough, the "must have now" attitude fades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Like in any other business. You had be until this point. Like any other contraband business, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bignasty Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 You had be until this point. Like any other contraband business, maybe. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabom Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Hey Trusty, I didn't realize you dealers were in such close contact with makers. Can you please ask them to make proper sized Panerai crowns with spring-loads? I would be TOTALLY all over the new Panerai models if only the crowns (the most famous part of Panerai) were done properly, and at least appear to function properly with the spring-load. I can only hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted July 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Spring Loaded Crowns... I know indeed but if they do that now... can you imagine all the current stocks with no SPRING LOADED crowns?? =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabom Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 what.. the chicken and egg problem? Well I know I'm not going to get poorer if they don't come out with PROPER crowns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tag Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 From RWG 1 to RWG 2 and with TRC, RWI and WT still around, members are starting to take things for granted. Everytime when there are new watches which are launched, members do not really appreciate how hard the makers and how hard we dealers source to get you the watches.. instead posts like.. "Wait for 2nd version...3rd version" will surface and all in all, everyone just hold their horses and we will see people scrutinise the entire watch for quality checks. Dear Trusty, First I'd like to say that like many others I've bougth watches from you & I'm happy of your service and of the watches too. But I don't understand your reaction after reading the threads. Many praise you so I'd think you could be rather proud and fulfilled. There're a lot of comments on watches, good and bad. Of course some members focus on the defects... but many are balanced. Checks are often serious. Picture quality is high. If you design genuine watches and are successful, your designs may be reviewed in a watch magazine, which will check your watches and list down their strengths & weaknesses. It's the same in most jobs, there is always somebody reviewing your results!! On top of this, this is replica! So there is something to directly compare, moreover this genuine watch used for comparison is of very high quality, and holds status value so if the owner is found waring a rep he may be worse off than if he were not wearing anything... So why do you want to skip the scrutiny and feedback? This is very good for your business! In many other situation I'd love to have such a rich customer feedback to checl my products' quality, the directions of the market, etc. Internet brings you a lot of customers, tell's you what they want, enables you to communicate with them, etc. etc. So what are you complaining for??? Do you ask for special praise? You got it. Do you need to raise your prices in order to cover your risks? Pricing is up to you. Do you want special consideration for the hurdles you face and for which we are paying? Again, I do appreciate you and what you're doing. You've brought a new standard in the quality of dealing & communication with end users. But I don't really understand your reaction. Tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 LOL BUSINESS my friend; Legal or illegal, but BUSINESS. Somebody sells, another buys and pays. Dress it the way you want but that's the way it is. And the difference is not only legallity... is the honesty of the dealers and the buyers. and don't think you are calling bandits to us... isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabom Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 agreed. Negative feedback is better than positive for your business. If you want to know why business is slow just ask for negative feedback, positive feedback won't help you. When you business is going well, positive feedback will tell you how to keep going in the right direction, but negative feedback will help you go even further. Dear Trusty, First I'd like to say that like many others I've bougth watches from you & I'm happy of your service and of the watches too. But I don't understand your reaction after reading the threads. Many praise you so I'd think you could be rather proud and fulfilled. There're a lot of comments on watches, good and bad. Of course some members focus on the defects... but many are balanced. Checks are often serious. Picture quality is high. If you design genuine watches and are successful, your designs may be reviewed in a watch magazine, which will check your watches and list down their strengths & weaknesses. It's the same in most jobs, there is always somebody reviewing your results!! On top of this, this is replica! So there is something to directly compare, moreover this genuine watch used for comparison is of very high quality, and holds status value so if the owner is found waring a rep he may be worse off than if he were not wearing anything... So why do you want to skip the scrutiny and feedback? This is very good for your business! In many other situation I'd love to have such a rich customer feedback to checl my products' quality, the directions of the market, etc. Internet brings you a lot of customers, tell's you what they want, enables you to communicate with them, etc. etc. So what are you complaining for??? Do you ask for special praise? You got it. Do you need to raise your prices in order to cover your risks? Pricing is up to you. Do you want special consideration for the hurdles you face and for which we are paying? Again, I do appreciate you and what you're doing. You've brought a new standard in the quality of dealing & communication with end users. But I don't really understand your reaction. Tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarks Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Who exactly knows what is going on in the factory? Possibly some dealers here and the actual pple who work in them. I'm pretty sure things work differently in rep biz compared to gen biz so I would say it is not appropriate in this case to compare these two extreme cases. Of course, we all want the most exact rep but just take a look and see how far we have come. Yes, new versions are always coming out every few months or so, I guess that is how they work in the rep biz. I could only imagine how a dealer might feel when they take into considerations about the flaws and get the factory to rectify them and to produce a final version and then.... to the dealer's dismay, it is still not good enough for us. Why? because it is a damn rep, that's why. At the end of the day, a rep is still a rep. It is never good enough for us. The closer we get to the gen, the more we scrutinise for flaws. Let me tell ya, it never ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Just remember.....if no-one buys the 1st generation....there won't be a 2nd generation.....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Just remember.....if no-one buys the 1st generation....there won't be a 2nd generation.....! Yes but we don't have to be use to buy those 1st generations. I am quite sure the factories sell to other dealers too who are not distributing their watches throught the forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Watchandpen Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Dear Andrew Thanks for informing us (and quite a few will not have realised the costs, risks and hassles you dealers assume) about your trade. I have bought well over a dozen watches from you and have been very impressed by your tremendous customer service ethos and absolute integrity. As I have said to you on a few occasions (as well as to our mutual friend, Edge) - and I sincerely mean it - "YOU are THE man!!". But just to explain the aspirations of collectors like myself: some of us buy gens and buy the reps so that we can have fun wearing them without fear of them being damaged (i.e. so what?). Yet, we want as close to the real thing as possible - and would be willing to pay extra. So, here's an idea, how about offering a moding option - with extra charge accordingly? You and folks like Joshua have built your reputations and we know that you would never scam us. So, I suggest that you try it out and thereby further differentiate yourself. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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