Pugwash Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Sorry to be posting the kind of thread I find mildly annoying, but I'd like anyone good at movements to tell me if any of these movements are fake/replica/asian ETA movements. All three are from different watches and at least one is gen. Think you can tell? For reference, here are two 100% gen ETA movements. ps. Yes, I know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 I don't know the answer...but hey...nice pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted November 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 I don't know the answer...but hey...nice pics. Apart from the last two, they're actually not that good and I'll admit it. I didn't want to spend so much time on post-processing pictures to gloss over stuff. We get given quick snaps to identify all the time. At least mine are mildly in focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemaniac Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 1st one is gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krayfish Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 The second one is Gen........I would like to point out that I just think its pretty with its purple bits and bobs......and have absolutly NO CLUE about movements and whats what, still learning that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightstroker Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 I'll take a stab at it.... 1st photo....clone 2nd photo...genuine 3rd photo....clone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Apart from the last two, they're actually not that good and I'll admit it. I didn't want to spend so much time on post-processing pictures to gloss over stuff. We get given quick snaps to identify all the time. At least mine are mildly in focus. ...WELL...judging by YOUR standards they're not that good. But your "crap" shots are better than 90% of the standard populations "keepers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 All 3 are genuine... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Fleischer Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 the first is a fake, 2 & 3 may be gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted November 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 All 3 are genuine... RG Well, when The Zigmeister says they're genuine, they're genuine. Top: Fortis Second: MBK 1665 Third: UPO Fourth: GMT-II Fifth: MBK 1680 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 They are ALL fake dammit - even the Fortis one. Boycott ETA as it is not really a Swatch product but a front for a massive Chinese controlled intergalactic conspiracy. ETA is just an acronym for Evil Taiwanese Aliens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted November 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Oh, for all those that thought the first was a clone, it's the only one there that can truly be called "Swiss". It's in a gen Fortis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Yeah those watches are nice BTW. My brother has the same watch. I don't think there are any good Fortis reps are there? And regarding the movements I used to laugh there for while when the rumour was going around that all nickel finished ETA's were fakes. Meanwhile pretty much every ebauche ever made that I know of in use by a major manufactory is in nickel. Go figure. Not that there aren't a ton of nickel fakes as well as gold ones too of course. I still think that the majority of the new ones in reps are copies but who cares if they are as long as the parts swap and they are high quality. Oh, for all those that thought the first was a clone, it's the only one there that can truly be called "Swiss". It's in a gen Fortis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 I still think that the majority of the new ones in reps are copies but who cares if they are as long as the parts swap and they are high quality. Currently? Probably...which is why some senior folks have been having problems swapping in ETA parts when they were working on ETA stamped movements before it was widely known that there were ETA branded ETA copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacco Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 I'm with The Zigmeister, different continent but still with The Zigmeister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 I was sure on the first two, iffy on the third but that's just because I've had limited experience with movement analysis...If The Zigmeister says it's gen, it's gen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 I'm glad I didn't jump in. I was about to say 2nd one is gen, others are not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 It is nice to see that we still have some difference of opinion here and another meaningful discussion thanks to Pug... That said, I didn't know people actually did have trouble swapping parts lately. I guess that confirms that some of them actually are fakes - and I hope somebody with a parts swap issue will chime in here and confirm. One thing has been confirmed and that is NOBODY, and I mean nobody can tell a fake by looking at it with any reliability. That has been confirmed time and time again with this thread being no different. But the bottom line is there are no absolutions in this issue and hats off to the makers then for doing such a good job. If even one person has had an experience of parts that don't swap, some of them must be fakes. Plus, common sense prevails. Why not rep an ETA stamp and cop a movement if you are a Chinese watch maker? Like I always said, they have machines that 1:1 and internal bezel mechanism in a Slevin, but they just choose not to do the movement too? Yeah, and I have the exclusive listing on the Brooklyn Bridge and I'll sell it to you for a hundred thousand... If we truly appreciate how capable the rep makers are, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they would rep ETA movements if for no other reason than to gain economies of scale and additional profits. The bottom line is is costs less to rep an ETA movement than buy one in bulk from any source. I hope this isn't a sore subject, but it keeps coming up obviously because it is worth talking about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg1459 Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 if they can copy etas that well, why dont do it with rolex movts? they are not that so different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 My guess is supply economics. Movement making is much more expensive part for part than any watch so they need to only do what can be universally accepted in most watches - hence ETA. Rep buyers don't expect Rolex copies - plus then they would know it was fake. But they do expect ETA. ETA has a long standing place in the rep industry. Rep buyers expect ETA as an option and it is a cornerstone of the industry. I'm sure they could copy Rolex movements but they wouldn't be able to sell them for more in order to justify the cost of doing it. ETA is a profit center for replica watches if it can be repped due to sheer volume. But let's forget all that and try and answer the more obvious question which comes about through a natural series of facts: 1. We know the Chinese rep everything 2. We know the Chinese make non reppped movements 3. So why therefore would Chinese not rep a movment when they have the technology and their entire manufacturing culture is based on it? There is simply NO reason not to rep ETA movements as long as they can command more money and be placed in hundreds of different replica watches as a universal "part" of the process... I say good for them. Even the repped ones are obviously close to the same quality since it is so hard to tell live from Memorex. I find it funny actually that they have created such a stir about it given that the end product is so good... if they can copy etas that well, why dont do it with rolex movts? they are not that so different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdj Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) Sorry to dig this topic up, but I figured it would be better than creating a new one. I personally find it offensive that the rep makers are faking ETAs. It's like a prostitute telling you they love you. It's an affront to common sense. A real ETA 2824-2 costs around $100 wholesale. Am I supposed to believe that a $400 rep watch has a $100 movement? And a $50 "sapphire" crystal, and $75 worth of "316L" steel? And that they machine and assemble these elements, put on a precision painted dial, while covering their expenses AND turning a profit, in the remaining $175? I'm not buying any of it. And if the movement isn't genuine ETA, why should we believe ANY of the other specs? I've seen reps that had obvious Coke bottle green glass crystals described as "sapphire" and "stainless steel" watches with silver plating flaking off around the crown. It's all so stupid. If you know enough about watches to know what ETA is, or care, then you'll probably know enough to discover it's not a real ETA. So why do the rep makers bother? If these watches cost even one dollar less without ETA markings, I'd be happy. Edited December 5, 2008 by mcdj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 if they can copy etas that well, why dont do it with rolex movts? they are not that so different There was a post here a while ago about repped rolly movements, not sure now who had one and and sent it in for servicingm rolex decided it was fake and destroyed it, when the photos were compared there wer diffences in the engraving and finish, i belive the movement originated out of vietnam? can any one shed light on the post?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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