Thieves at Royal Mail?

[Genrep]

Whilst I am obviously NOT suggesting that Royal Mail is carrying out scams, they know that there is in all likelihood theft of deliveries being carried out with the inside knowledge and collusion of their staff (because they must receive tons of complaints). In any event, when complaints are made, they do everything to deny wrong doing; put into play bureaucratic prodcedures to stymie complaints (and make them go away); etc.... NB: I have lost 3 watches in this manner over the last 18 months - the thieves there seem to target watches! In fact, as some of you know, some vendors refuse to send watches/valuables to the UK because of this problem!!

One scam works this way (you only find out when you call them to check on undelivered items): (1) Royal Mail's records state that they attempted delivery and left an 'attempted delivery note' (which strangely the addressee never receives); (2) very shortly thereafter, a person claiming to be 'the addressee' (not the real one) turns up at the depot and signs for (with the surname/name of the real addressee) and collects the parcel - and disappears. As far as Royal Mail is concerned, they have done their job: (1) checked the identity of the collector by seeing the delivery note (at least this is what they claim), (2) taken the signature and (3) DELIVERED the item. So, they may initiate an investigation - but they are never wrong.

So what can the 'victim' do: as the signature will not bear any resemblance to yours, it is evidence of forgery and theft. Thus, get all details down and (1) make a report to the Police; (2) submit a report and complaint to Royal Mail (Customer service). But the best solution is to avoid this problem: use FEDEX and DHL. I have never lost an item using them before. If you have to use Royal Mail (or a postal service), make sure you insure (and get whoever is sending you valuable items to do the same) - and insure for more than it is worth. The minimum insurance coverage by Royal Mail is

[Tomhighway]

When you collect an Item in person, Royal Mail require photographic ID of the name the item is addressed to, so it must be quite time consuming for the scammer to produce either passport or d-license id everytime they collect something. Sure stuff goes missing but I think you are getting carried away with things tbh.

Also the min coverage is not

[Genrep]

When you collect an Item in person, Royal Mail require photographic ID of the name the item is addressed to, so it must be quite time consuming for the scammer to produce either passport or d-license id everytime they collect something. Sure stuff goes missing but I think you are getting carried away with things tbh.

Also the min coverage is not

[Guest Dr.TuB]

i do believe that if you insure an item and want to claim for it. you need receipt or proof of purchase for the item to be claimed....

and since we're dealing with reps here. how do we go about doing that?

im pretty sure postal service wont hand money over to us if we are insuring rep watches...

[Tomhighway]

Royal mail will only insure up to a max of value of

Edited December 7, 2008 by Tomhighway

[Corgi]

In Canada, a good portion of the mail I receive (including very private financial documents) has been torn apart and have obviously been "unofficially" opened. The mailbox for my street sits directly to the left of my house so I can see what the postman is doing. Basically, he takes the mail from the street post-box, dumps it all into his car, and drives away - he collects it like that for about 2-3 days in sequence and then comes back on days with nice weather to disperse all of the mail. Now aside from the delay this is not so bad but he gets confused if there is too much and I often get my mail screwed up with that of another family down the street.

It's a mess here in Canada.......

[Guest Dr.TuB]

hey tom, please check your pm

In Canada, a good portion of the mail I receive (including very private financial documents) has been torn apart and have obviously been "unofficially" opened. The mailbox for my street sits directly to the left of my house so I can see what the postman is doing. Basically, he takes the mail from the street post-box, dumps it all into his car, and drives away - he collects it like that for about 2-3 days in sequence and then comes back on days with nice weather to disperse all of the mail. Now aside from the delay this is not so bad but he gets confused if there is too much and I often get my mail screwed up with that of another family down the street.

It's a mess here in Canada.......

[Tom]

I collect dozen's of packages a week from the Royal Mail as I run a business on Ebay. I have never been given a package without providing them with ID. No matter what you say, or how far you've come they will not give you the package.

Otherwise you could just find the red card on the street and taken it in. I seriously doubt anyone would risk losing their job by not asking for ID.

[Genrep]

i do believe that if you insure an item and want to claim for it. you need receipt or proof of purchase for the item to be claimed....

and since we're dealing with reps here. how do we go about doing that?

im pretty sure postal service wont hand money over to us if we are insuring rep watches...

Yeah, this is the nub. I always just state "watch" or "vintage watch(es)" - the latter is often the case for me. Sadly, whilst certainly registered and "(to be) signed for" - but NOT insured - 2 of my watches have gone astray this way. The latest was from one of our (RWG) members from Central Europe. This is why I urge folks to: (1) insure OR (2) use a global courier AND (3) (ALWAYS) NEVER sign off delivery dockets UNTIL you open up and inspect that what is being delivered is exactly what you paid for/expected.

Within EU, insuring and stating full value is fine and does not attract customs duties, VAT or handling charges. But, of course, if you are sending items from one economic bloc to another you may attract such charges when you insure and declare the full amount. This is where FEDEX (which is what I normally use for expensive items) is handy. They are very reliable (although their service and customer care can be a bit pathetic at times) that even if you declare, say, $500 - you know (unless you are dead unlucky) that you will receive the goods. I also understand from pretty established (gen) watch dealers that (particularly from the US) FEDEX will only insure a watch to a maximum value of $500. I do not know if this is actually the case or if it differs from geography to geography.

[Genrep]

I collect dozen's of packages a week from the Royal Mail as I run a business on Ebay. I have never been given a package without providing them with ID. No matter what you say, or how far you've come they will not give you the package.

Otherwise you could just find the red card on the street and taken it in. I seriously doubt anyone would risk losing their job by not asking for ID.

Your PO must be pretty efficient. But then again, you are a trader and may be treated 'preferentially'. Think about it, you cannot regulate integrity. If someone wants to scam or steal... they will. You don't work for Royal Mail, by any chance...?

[TeeJay]

Yes, there are thieves at the Royal Mail. Yes, they can be sloppy with requesting ID when it comes to collecting a parcel from a sorting office rather than at home, but that only applies if the person misses the initial delivery, it is not standard procedure to have to collect all parcels in person.

Suggesting people use FEDEX rather than the Royal Mail is utterly counter-productive, as FEDEX is a near guaranteed way of getting the goods seized by customs...

Informing people of potential issues is one thing, scaremongering is another.

[Pugwash]

Suggesting people use FEDEX rather than the Royal Mail is utterly counter-productive, as FEDEX is a near guaranteed way of getting the goods seized by customs...

Agreed. More people have complained about empty FedEx packages than stolen royal mail ones.

However, at this time of year, Royal Mail does take on lots of seasonal workers and they do tend to be light-fingered.

http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?q=royal%20m...s&scope=all

For instance, 60 people in Northern Ireland were sacked for theft over the last few years, and more than a third of them were prosecuted.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7682004.stm

[TeeJay]

Agreed. More people have complained about empty FedEx packages than stolen royal mail ones.

However, at this time of year, Royal Mail does take on lots of seasonal workers and they do tend to be light-fingered.

http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?q=royal%20m...s&scope=all

For instance, 60 people in Northern Ireland were sacked for theft over the last few years, and more than a third of them were prosecuted.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7682004.stm

That's one way of putting it Did you ever catch the Dispatches doco on the Royal Mail a few years back? That was shocking as to the kind of things which went on in some of the London sorting offices.

[DirtyVader]

Royal Mail have never asked me for ID, either here in Brighton or at my other address in London. Just show your little attempted delivery card and you get the package.

[Polynomial]

Just another word of warning -- a valid form of ID for RM is a utility bill or bank statement (I always use phone bill or gas bill to pick up my packages -- unless the rules have changed this must still be the valid practice), hence if somebody steals the red "missed delivery card" from one's mailbox, then nothing stops him to steal a bill or another piece of mail. Remarkable enough, Royal Mail will accept that other piece of stolen mail as the proof of ID.

Though this type of fraud never happened to me, I had a strange experience with RM, I once received the delivery card, and when I called to arrange re-delivery they told me that (unfortunately) the postman has lost the package...only thing I could do was to contact the sender and notify him that shipment was not delivered...btw it was an auto part not a watch...

[Genrep]

Yes, there are thieves at the Royal Mail. Yes, they can be sloppy with requesting ID when it comes to collecting a parcel from a sorting office rather than at home, but that only applies if the person misses the initial delivery, it is not standard procedure to have to collect all parcels in person.

Suggesting people use FEDEX rather than the Royal Mail is utterly counter-productive, as FEDEX is a near guaranteed way of getting the goods seized by customs...

Informing people of potential issues is one thing, scaremongering is another.

You are not getting the point!! Apologies if I was not clear, mate - but there was NO (and I mean NO) delivery note left. That was just phase 1 of the scam! There was NO attempt to deliver the parcel. Interesting thing is I get tons of stuff in the post (my latest ebay feedback is 824 - all as a buyer) - but only the watches are stolen. In my 2 local depots, there must be some watch afficiandos.

[Genrep]

Royal Mail have never asked me for ID, either here in Brighton or at my other address in London. Just show your little attempted delivery card and you get the package.

Same here - in fact, my receptionists and secretaries do all the picking up when needed (i.e. genuine missed deliveries) and they certainly do not have ID proof that they are me - just the attempted delivery card. Just shows that practices around the country differ.

[Krayfish]

When you collect an Item in person, Royal Mail require photographic ID of the name the item is addressed to, so it must be quite time consuming for the scammer to produce either passport or d-license id everytime they collect something. Sure stuff goes missing but I think you are getting carried away with things tbh.

Also the min coverage is not

[Krayfish]

I collect dozen's of packages a week from the Royal Mail as I run a business on Ebay. I have never been given a package without providing them with ID. No matter what you say, or how far you've come they will not give you the package.

Otherwise you could just find the red card on the street and taken it in. I seriously doubt anyone would risk losing their job by not asking for ID.

Maybe my main post office needs to wake up then!

As I said, I have NEVER been asked for any kind of I.D, and I get things most weeks, that I have missed from ebay.

[Tomhighway]

It is a legal requirement to sign for recorded and special delivery, its part of the contract to prove delivery and if you are collecting in person the Representative will need to see your iD unless I suppose he knows you very well he might make an exception I suppose . Probably Steviejay your items are standard first class post and wont fit through the letter box and they know you very well as you are there regularly .

As an addition. there isnt one Courier company in the Uk sending abroad that will insure watches or items of precious metal , jewellry etc that have a value of over

Edited December 10, 2008 by Tomhighway

[spooky driver]

i dont know about your collection office but in mine there are about 5 security cameras in the office so it should be easy enough ti identify who collected what.....but then again I'm in Northern Ireland so security might be a tad higher

[letter]

Yep, i've almost never needed any ID when collecting items...

yet alone photo ID - what if you dont have photo ID anyway? Lots of people have no passport/no DL.

I suppose they just print off a bill on their computer in that case!

Although, I've only ever once had anything go missing with royal mail and Ive sent hundreds of items. I was fully compensated too.

[TeeJay]

You are not getting the point!! Apologies if I was not clear, mate - but there was NO (and I mean NO) delivery note left. That was just phase 1 of the scam! There was NO attempt to deliver the parcel. Interesting thing is I get tons of stuff in the post (my latest ebay feedback is 824 - all as a buyer) - but only the watches are stolen. In my 2 local depots, there must be some watch afficiandos.

I understood perfectly what you were saying, but, you are missing the point that this kind of scam is not the normal situation for people using the Royal Mail. As mentioned, above, suggesting people use FedEx is almost 100% guaranteed to get rep goods seized by customs. Suggesting people use FedEx rather than the Royal Mail is not giving a better alternative, but a much worse one. As I mentioned to Pugwash, there was a documentary on thieves in the Royal Mail several years ago. Wether the RM have taken steps to alleviate the situation, who knows, but, as before, the situation you have experienced (which I don't doubt happened) is NOT the normal situation, so yes, by all means make peoplr aware of it, but don't do it in such a way as making it sound that anything going through the Royal Mail is going to vanish or be scammed. As I said before, giving a warning about a situation is helpful to people, but scaremongering and suggesting people start using a courier which is widely known to result in goods seized, is not.

[Bossart]

Royal Mail have never asked me for ID, either here in Brighton or at my other address in London. Just show your little attempted delivery card and you get the package.

Absolutely agree with the above.

I also have NEVER been asked for ANY ID when picking up a Royal Mail Parcel - as long as I have the screwed up little note that was stuffed though my letter box with me saying they attempted to deliver. And that's only so as they can get the bar code off it.

[Genrep]

I understood perfectly what you were saying, but, you are missing the point that this kind of scam is not the normal situation for people using the Royal Mail. As mentioned, above, suggesting people use FedEx is almost 100% guaranteed to get rep goods seized by customs. Suggesting people use FedEx rather than the Royal Mail is not giving a better alternative, but a much worse one. As I mentioned to Pugwash, there was a documentary on thieves in the Royal Mail several years ago. Wether the RM have taken steps to alleviate the situation, who knows, but, as before, the situation you have experienced (which I don't doubt happened) is NOT the normal situation, so yes, by all means make peoplr aware of it, but don't do it in such a way as making it sound that anything going through the Royal Mail is going to vanish or be scammed. As I said before, giving a warning about a situation is helpful to people, but scaremongering and suggesting people start using a courier which is widely known to result in goods seized, is not.

I have never lost an item through Fedex - and I use them lots......