George , wm9 , real gold , watchmaker9 , TT

[sssurfer]

I don't know who Styler is, but I followed the whole original thread in the Italian section of RG and I can assure you that Involt's study on the gold of George's was performed in a very thoughtful, scientific manner.

Jake48, I cannot understand why you seem to try and bring this issue to personal level about Styler. The point here is not who Styler is, but if what he posted is true. And it undoubtly is: he proved it with screen captures (do you think he simulated them?), and I confirm here the existence of that equivalent thread on RG.

Statements like "if you want to know, just push the search button" or "if you want to know, then just ask the seller" are simply ridicolous (sorry). Should we follow them in everyday's life, there would have been no progress in human life since the Dark Ages.

Please take your time, translate the Italian thread on RG, then reconsider what you think about the whole matter.

[watcher]

Well said and all I will say on the matter is that the bezel on George's z tt sub is only plated and not very thick at that. I polished it lightly when it arrived and it soon started to show the base steel through not sure about the crown as I fitted a gen crown and tube and seem to have lost the original to check it.

[involt]

Guys, since all the original posts (on the WM9 forum, as well as on the Italian section of RG) are mine, I'm entitled (maybe I'm the only entitled) to reply, I guess.

I'm not a native English speaker, so it's likely you'll find here several gross mistakes, but I'm pretty sure you'll understand anyway

First of all, I'll answer the question: why wasn't it posted on the English forum (or on RWG, or RWI for that matter)?

There are two main reasons.

The first is: that wasn't the time. Or maybe I should have said:

@styler: styler, it wasn't the time; publicizing the hidden posts is inappropriate at the moment. I don't know who exactly are you, but I'm pretty sure you're in good faith, you're thinking of doing the community a favour. However, as anyone can desume by reading the posts, I don't consider George a scammer so far, and waiting for further developments was my intention (in the end of the post #33). I didn't want to damage George or his business; not before having some proof about his will of intentionally damaging me. And as I'm the original starter of the threads (in the present terms, at least), I wished my will were respected.

Anyway, at this point the damage is done...

The second concerns the attitude and the behaviour of some people. This is tacitly stated in context of some sentences in several posts, and explicitly declared in a post on the Italian section of RG (#10 of the same thread). Italian is a little-known and though language, besides, my writing style is unsuitable for an automatic translater; but the Google translation seems to be fairly understandable.

However, this can be deduced (with no need of translation) from the reading of the various posts someway related to this topic.

Read this:

http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic....f=5&t=46606

then read the replies to my post on the Italian section of RG

The comparison may result to be very enlightening.

And going on with this respects... please, note the attitude of 19framps on the hidden forums. Please read his post and my reply, noting that his post (the second-last) was edited after my reply. Good manners cannot be created by magic simply by editing a post; they only can come from family and from distinction. BTW this is the reason why I currently hold George in esteem, regardless the gold issue.

Another example can be found in the jake48 replies; I think he should reconsider his behaviour towards styler

BTW, among other things, jake48 wrote:

1. Someone who is lazy and does not want to use the search button.

But... what should I have searched? Please, show me the result of any test published on this or others boards. I never read a substantiated assertion; only allegations.

a certain eddie claimed he had tested a bracelet link:

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...st&p=114947

by melting down it. What the heck should this demonstrate?

Besides that, is there something else I should find? On this board or other ones?

In context of my posts you can read calculations, get links, view pictures. Anyone with half a brain can understand the matter. But less than an half isn't enough, sorry.

Does WM9 use real gold? Just email him and ask him.

Done, jake48. On July, 15th, 2008. And this is the reply, cut and pasted from my mailbox, as I never deleted the mail:

The gold part on the 2 tone Submariner 16613 is made of real 18k yellow gold, not wrapped or plated.

As you can easily realize, this was happening long before the "hidden thread" development.

Obviously I didn't ask about the Lady Datejust.

In short, the answer is YES

Thanks for your good offices, but an answer in short isn't enough for me. It means nothing at all. Maybe it's more than enough for most people, but not for me. And this is, ultimately, the second reason why I didn't post the issue on the English forum.

And about the watches source, or better, the watches provenance, I'll say nothing here and now. Suffice it to say that I spent 1282$ and, at the moment, all that I have is a TT Sub and a jubilee bracelet made of steel and copper. Hoping that this situation will work out for the best, as I still trust in George somehow.

If you search my posts (the infamous search button comes back), you'll find several indirect clues about the watches provenience. But this time you'll need a whole brain. This is the only thing we all are in need of, not facetiousness about black helicopters, that can't demonstrate anything.

Just using a little common sense will enable you to figure it out.

precisely

To sum up, as many people talked for the sake of talking but not moving a finger for the sake of the truth, please suspend any posting; we'll resume it at the proper time.

Thanks for understanding

Regards

Edited December 13, 2008 by involt

[trailboss]

Jake: When buying a new car, do you belive all the salesman tells you? IMO you can expect only one conclusion from folk if you describe parts as "18k yellow gold". That meens the part IS 18k yellow gold. Exactly what else would it meen?

This Involt guy appears to know his stuff. He was asked some quite tecnical questions regarding chemistry and metalurgy and knew the answers. If you read the whole thing he is backed up at least in part by other members. Notice WM9s reply. To the efect of "you meen there's no gold in there at all? Please keep me informed" does not strike me as a very strong denial by someone who knows what goes into the product he sells.

Regardless of the right or wrong of this debate I fail to see why the OP was roasted by some folk. All he is doing is passing on info that otherwise would be denied people trying to make up their own minds on the subject. Should they not have acess to all available info/oppinion? Do not most of us live in countries that cherish freedom of speach?

Oh I know in some fora folk are spared the tedios task of sifting thru piles of info and makeing up their own minds on matters such as this. They have mods to make up their minds for them! Arn't they just sooooo lucky? Deny me infomation or desire to do so and you hurt me. I have a right to listen to the pros and cons from both sides of such important discussions and then decide, if I care enough to do so. That's what free thinking people do. I would give your side a lot more consideration if you didn't come out fighting and stick it up the OP. Every time somthing negitive is posted the poor bug*er gets a flaming. Look at the first few pages of the K2222 thread for example. Then when things go bad folk come out of the woodwork once it's in the open and too late. The progresion in the K2222 thread is almost classic in this regard. Of cause little hicups happen to dealers and a lot of the time peeps do overreact but most of the senior posters here can smell a rat once it's pointed out to them.

Thanks to the OP for this thread.

Regards,

Col.

[blue_sphere]

I think its important to note as well that while I had read the original thread (before deletion) and had made my own (it is probably in the experts forum too). I am still interested in buying a WM9. I have spoken to BK about this issue and I know that he will jump on it and see what is going on. I don't really care if its real gold... its hundreds of dollars, what I do care is if it turns my wrist green or it wears off and the watch looks [censored].

Jake, your original post on your WM9 from years ago brought my interest in them.

That being said, George isn't being forthcoming here, and that is something we all need to look at. This includes yourself. Involt really spent his time on this and it clearly shows in his posts. I think that you should give all this a chance.

Don't get upset with Shundi nor myself, there are no attacks here as Shundi said. What we are saying is give the other side a chance to make their argument. We would do the same for you!

[jake48]

First, Involt - I have to compliment you on your English. You express yourself articulately and are well spoken, especially considering Italian is your native language. I appreciate your honesty and find it in direct contrast with the person who started this thread. The question of whether or not George uses Solid 18k gold has clearly been answered and I see that you said you "Currently hold George in esteem" and that you "still trust in George somehow." So I guess we can conclude you don't consider George a scammer. Why George ever told you he does not plate his gold parts is in direct opposition to my experience. Before I pulled the trigger on one of his TT's I emailed him very specific questions regarding "Solid 18k gold" and plated gold and he answered them all truthfully ( maybe something got lost in translation for you from George? I don't know) As I consider PM's and emails ALWAYS private I will not post George's replies on the open board, but would not hesitate to speak to you via PM or email as I see you have put a lot of time and effort into this. You seem like an honest man.

The OP. however. - well now that is a different story....

Second - Spere & Shundi - You guys make good points and as you know me, I may be a little rough around the edges and passionate about what I say, but I do know what I am talking about...

As far as the OP - It's all about character- Read his first thread, even he makes a claim that he came on here to "Let everyone on here be the judge of George

Edited December 13, 2008 by jake48

[styler]

Here is a great quote that

Edited December 13, 2008 by styler

[involt]

jake48,

first of all, thanks for your (widely undeserved ) compliments about my English.

The matter isn't such plain as it appears at first sight.

If you read thoroughly the hidden thread posted by styler, you'll realize that I've been involved against my will. The only information I provided at first was concerning the golden parts, in generic terms:

Watchman, I have to say you're wrong. The golden parts aren't plated or gold coloured; they really are in solid metal. The bad news is that the metal isn't gold. It's an alloy containing copper, whose specific gravity lies between 8 and 9 (sort of brass, bronze, gun-metal...).

Sorry guys

Then I got carried away by the stupid posts of 19framps.

There are several issues about WM9, not only the gold question. The only thing I can tell you for the time being is that either George is a scammer or he has been scammed. In any case, I've been scammed.

I don't pontificate if I don't know the course of facts, because it's my way. And I agree with you: character is infinitely more valuable than a watch. But in the social relations field, such a concept must be valid for both sides. If I consider your character whereas you consider my money, this would mean that I, as a person, am worth as much as a watch (or a few hundred of dollars). Not exactly a gratifying outcome; but, above all, an unjust yardstick.

In my opinion, styler honestly believed to do the right thing. And maybe it could be the right thing, but not this way, not now. But I want to underline that I haven't any problem at all with him. Maybe he's a bit rash...

Should George be unfair, would you really prefer to defend him whole-heartedly, and against the damaged members of the community? Please, ask yourself. And if you can't find an answer, wait and think it over. As I'm waiting...

Edited December 13, 2008 by involt

[jake48]

Here is a great quote that

[RobbieG]

Give it a rest Jake. You have a history of this kind of crap and you know it. In case anyone doesn't know, what started the now famous war between Jake and I was EXACTLY something as silly as this. EXACTLY. I told a story on another forum whereby my Rolex AD claimed to have called out a rep GMT IIc in his store, then I agreed that the watch, while easily the rep of the year at the time had obvious flaws. Then it was on and he started attacking me personally - and hasn't stopped I might add. Will you stop at nothing to defend what YOU like Jake? What about what the rest of us think? How about if someone posted an opinion about something you didn't agree with and you actaully chose to be grown up and NOT start slinging mud about it? If anyone should dare give another point of view about a watch Jake proudly owns, or a dealer or maker HE happens to like or is loyal to there will be hell to pay. And God forbid, other members should chime in and give you an ubiased perspective and remind you this is an OPINION forum you get sh*tty with them too. Ease up man. Live and let live. That goes for Jetmid too. LOL. Do us all a favor....

"Hostility" "Our Job" You have got be kidd'n me. Did you even bother to read the type of language the disgruntled OP was using? The best thing you said is that anyone reading this thread should use the search button, read and figure it out themselves.

Like I said, this whole WM9 is a scammer thing is really getting old. If you were really doing your "job" you would be asking questions of the OP. A few here have noticed, as well as I, that this guy has zero credibility. When he posted his complaint (and that is all it really is) over at RG and didn't get what he wanted he came over here to stir the pot and you guys took the bait.

What this guy is saying is nothing new and I guess I don't have much patience for a two poster who came over here to "warn" people about a mythical boogie man.

Notice the guy doesn't have anyone to vouch for him?

If you don't smell a rat then you really aren't that good at your "job" of protecting the members here... Not that anyone here needs it anyway. Collectively, everyone here seems to do a pretty good job of figuring it out themselves...

[jake48]

jake48,

first of all, thanks for your (widely undeserved ) compliments about my English.

The matter isn't such plain as it appears at first sight.

If you read thoroughly the hidden thread posted by styler, you'll realize that I've been involved against my will. The only information I provided at first was concerning the golden parts, in generic terms:

Watchman, I have to say you're wrong. The golden parts aren't plated or gold coloured; they really are in solid metal. The bad news is that the metal isn't gold. It's an alloy containing copper, whose specific gravity lies between 8 and 9 (sort of brass, bronze, gun-metal...).

Sorry guys

Then I got carried away by the stupid posts of 19framps.

There are several issues about WM9, not only the gold question. The only thing I can tell you for the time being is that either George is a scammer or he has been scammed. In any case, I've been scammed.

I don't pontificate if I don't know the course of facts, because it's my way. And I agree with you: character is infinitely more valuable than a watch. But in the social relations field, such a concept must be valid for both sides. If I consider your character whereas you consider my money, this would mean that I, as a person, am worth as much as a watch (or a few hundred of dollars). Not exactly a gratifying outcome; but, above all, an unjust yardstick.

In my opinion, styler honestly believed to do the right thing. And maybe it could be the right thing, but not this way, not now.

Should George be unfair, would you really prefer to defend him whole-heartedly, and against the damaged members of the community? Please, ask yourself. And if you can't find an answer, wait and think it over. As I'm waiting...

Involt - trust me, you deserve the compliments. In answer to your questions above, several years ago George was being flamed here by quite a few people who had never even done business with the guy. In large part it was over his yet to be released TT. Anyway, I was one of the few who publicly withheld my judgment of George's character until I actually did business with the guy. And for the record, I made it real clear on the open forum that if George WAS a scammer (as people were insinuating ) I would be the first to get on the board and say so. Well, several years later and it has been pretty obvious George is not a scammer and most (of course there will always be a few that don't) people agree that he is a stand up guy.

The issues with the gold sounds like it has been resolved. Like I said, PM me and I will be more than happy to give you details about my experience in determining the authenticity of George's claims. My experience with George leads me to believe he will ultimately take care of every single one of your concerns as he genuinely cares about the product he sells and the people who buy from him. It appears you have a sense of this about George as well, as you have said you still "trust" him.

Sorry, I just don't believe styler had any intention helping or warning anyone. If he did, he made it real clear from the beginning that he had already judged George's character even though he admittedly had not even bought a watch from George and that is a close minded person in my book. I look to the content of a persons words and deeds to make value judgments. Coming on a board with two posts, attacking someone's character and then hurling insults like "Can you chew gum and walk at the same time???" is not my idea of demonstrating any type of redeemable character...

[emuozz]

It isn’t important styler character or his motivation, he is pointing facts, the facts doesn’t stop to be real because he has 1 post or hates George or he has some kind of agenda (which I believe he doesn’t have it, I think he meant well) any attempt to discredit him with personal attacks or character attacks doesn’t serve any propose that it’s just an ad hominem fallacy.

The facts are simple, there were questions about the claims of 18k gold from George and he, instead to be straight forward with an answer, just make the topic in his forum invisible and gave misleading information.

And even if my intelligence tells me than it’s not solid gold (now I have certainty) He shouldn’t makes those claims if there are false, the fact than I know that it’s a lie doesn’t make the claim true or forgivable. It’s just a lie, period

No were on his site does it say "SOLID" 18k.

All the TT dj ie:

but I think that we are talking about the subs

18k Yellow gold bezel, and middle part of the wristband

IMHO that is very misleading, solid gold it

Edited December 13, 2008 by emuozz

[chubbchubb]

Whenever someone new to the forum posts information which is potentially affecting the reputation of a member or a dealer, his info should be read very carefully. There are many who join just to start a quick and uninformed "revenge" thread. On the other hand - low posts does not necessarily mean that you have to be a noob and not know what your talking about. In the end, the information presented has to be judged - not the post count.

Also, whenever a dealer is questioned, there will be members coming to the rescue. People who had good experience with that particular dealer, who love his product and who want to share this opinon with the world. Take the "White Lies" thread. There, Pugwash, a very respected member with more posts than anyone else on this forum was flamed by several members because he raised his voice against a dealer (duo).

If a dealer claims that the car he's selling has a V12 engine and that's why it's more expensive than his competitor's V6 and it turns out it does not, anyone would feel scammed.

I feel that if I use a certain feature of my merchandise for advertising and for justifying a certain price, I have to make sure that this feature's for real. Especially, if it is a feature as "mythical" as the solid gold issue in the rep world. The information presented seems to suggest that this was not the case...

[jake48]

emuozz - I appreciate the thoughtfulness you put into your post and you make some good points. You are correct in assuming we were talking about the "sub" (more specifically the TT) as it is clearly listed as the topic of this thread. With this in mind, you have used my quote regarding no statement about solid 18k gold out of context, but I do see that I could have been more specific to the fact my statement was strictly about the TT. As far as the jubillee and it's gold content goes I have no first hand knowledge about whether it does or doesn't have solid gold, so I think it best to leave that subject to people who actually have owned the watch and have had the gold tested.

With regards to George's liberal use of words when describing gold as it relates in general to his watches, I think if you re-read this very thread you will see I said I don't like it, even though we know ALL of the dealers here have been known to be a little "loose" shall we say, in describing the quantity and quality of their gold. I again find myself agreeing with you in what I believe is a correct assumption that George is not a scammer - but certainly he could be be a little more thorough with regards to his description of the gold in his watches. Additionally, I appreciate that you point out if you don't like what you get George will reimburse you as this has been my experience too.

I think the gold issue has been beat to death here. As far as the TT goes, there seem to be a clear understanding that George plates his gold. As far as his other watches and claims, given that George has been honest with me in the past and as you have pointed out, he will reimburse you if you don't like the watch you receive, I tend to lean towards giving George the benefit of the doubt - at least until proven otherwise.

One thing I do know is that George reads these threads and tries to take the good from them and make his watches better. Hopefully he will take note of the problems that have been created by using vague or misleading descriptions regarding the gold in his watches and make the appropriate corrections on his web site. My bet is that he will and once again he will demonstrate that he is not a "scammer"

The sad thing, however, is that in the past when he has done these things (make good on promises, make corrections to flaws on his watches, clarify misstatements) a large percentage of the flame throwers here remained silent and gave him no credit.

[CY0811]

That goes for Jetmid too. LOL.

I will try...its not easy being Jetmid.

Seriously I think George just did what almost all the other dealers do in regards to little white lies. Ive dealt with him before with no issues on a non-gold watch.

[emuozz]

@jake48, it was not my intention to take your statement out of context, however if you read the topic crated by involt he tested the oyster (sub) and the jubilee bracelet, that

[vmena]

It's funny to see how the "18K solid gold" topic appears on cyclical bases in these forums. And also how may people still believe any dealer is "dealing" with solid 18K or 14K gold all over and inside their items. A couple of years a go a reputable dealer claimed he was using solid gold and finally other reputable members demonstrated it was only brass, plus a low quality gold layer plated with some 14K on top.

But it is also insane the way the dealers play with the wording, deceiving not by lying specifically, but not telling the whole true. Of course, some of them a are selling "18K solid gold" parts... but what's the real content? You could say "mid links made of solid 18K gold" or "mid links made of 18K solid gold layer on top of another low grade gold an cooper..." But as you could understand, this is not a very marketing approach.

It is healthy that time to time, some one bring this topic again so newbies learn that they have not to read literally what's dealers advertise. And yes, they LIE and may times on purpose, by not telling the whole true and not sending clear information. Read selling posts and you will realize it easily. Ask for obvious things (clearly stated in their item descriptions) and you will realize that not everything is as stated "without any doubt".

This is why these forums are so important and helpful. And I'm proud RWG did not remove this thread as other did.

George is not an scammer. He's playing the game all other dealers do. If he were 100% clear, then he would be in a disadvantage position.

[Genrep]

About to? Yeah, I was about to buy an island in the South Paciifc...

Do you mean a WM9 TT like this one? I did... Hands down the best TT (aside from Gen) you can get.

Wow!! Nice pearl - I have a WM9 SS sub on order from BK. If the pearl (and I am a very sad pearl freak) looks as good as yours, I won't need to replace it with a gen. Cheers.

[Genrep]

Maybe it is to you, but can you tell me if the gold parts are really gold? It may not matter to you. However, misrepresenting a product does matter to non-complacent people. And yea... I really was going to buy the TT until this came out. So p*ss off!!!

One thing I am agreed on, you cannot possibly get real gold - even 9k - for the prices stated above. For the latest spot and price trends check out: http://www.goldprice.org/

[trailboss]

Mate those sre mainline gold prices for shure but scrap, hot or blood gold is a hell of a lot cheaper than the fine gold price esp in far east. Some of this grey market gold can be only a quarter of gold price. Even legit 14k is far cheaper than the fine or 24k price quoted on that site.

The gold price is geting silly tho. !235AUD an ounce! Cripes.I rember how shocked we were when it hit 500 years ago. Pity I ran out of Kruger Rands some time back

Col.

[doctorshumes]

First, yes Im new to the forum. BUT I have been following it for a couple of months.

Yes I actually own a WM9 TT sub. Only issue I have is with the gold on the clasp. It actually does have a small area of tarnish on it.

I dont care if it is solid gold vs gold plating. I agree someone should not false advertise, but there is obviously a lot of pressure in this game.

I do care about the quality of the plating. I do care how long it will last. I do care if George will send me another bracelet for free in 2 yrs or so if the plating wears off that quickly. Does anyone have a WM9 watch where the plating has failed or come off already? Anyone? Did George replace it for you for free? Hmm? I am interested now in the datejust all gold bracelet with gold face from George, BUT im really worried about the plating with this much "Gold." Gee, maybe that ones all solid gold too??? Likely its the same process or material or maybe even thinner plating (5 mils or less). U know it aint solid. Most likely gold plating. So are all the other reps. Question is the quality, how thick, and how long will it last. Assuming you dont go swimming with it or wear it playing sports. I know I always wear my gold watches during Tennis, Volleyball, and basketball!?! WILL GEORGE STAND BEHIND HIS PRODUCT AND FOR HOW LONG?! If so, then I will pay the extra money. Or i guess I can just go spend the 25K for the real thing, but why if you have a 90% solution for a fraction of the cost. If he doesnt..... well, the forums and there members do have some power and everyone knows customer service is what can keep you in buisnees or kill you. I have no issues with George. I would charge what I could as well for a high end rep with good plating. I know he doesnt make them. I do know he travels out of the country to Taiwan where they are made or did recently. He may not be 100% on the gold plating or just the middle man to a degree. Who knows. Does it last??? Does it serve its purpose? Is the quality worth the money? The last one is a fine line I give you that. If it lasts for MANY years then I would have to say probably so.

J

[jake48]

First, yes Im new to the forum. BUT I have been following it for a couple of months.

Yes I actually own a WM9 TT sub. Only issue I have is with the gold on the clasp. It actually does have a small area of tarnish on it.

I dont care if it is solid gold vs gold plating. I agree someone should not false advertise, but there is obviously a lot of pressure in this game.

I do care about the quality of the plating. I do care how long it will last. I do care if George will send me another bracelet for free in 2 yrs or so if the plating wears off that quickly. Does anyone have a WM9 watch where the plating has failed or come off already? Anyone? Did George replace it for you for free? Hmm? I am interested now in the datejust all gold bracelet with gold face from George, BUT im really worried about the plating with this much "Gold." Gee, maybe that ones all solid gold too??? Likely its the same process or material or maybe even thinner plating (5 mils or less). U know it aint solid. Most likely gold plating. So are all the other reps. Question is the quality, how thick, and how long will it last. Assuming you dont go swimming with it or wear it playing sports. I know I always wear my gold watches during Tennis, Volleyball, and basketball!?! WILL GEORGE STAND BEHIND HIS PRODUCT AND FOR HOW LONG?! If so, then I will pay the extra money. Or i guess I can just go spend the 25K for the real thing, but why if you have a 90% solution for a fraction of the cost. If he doesnt..... well, the forums and there members do have some power and everyone knows customer service is what can keep you in buisnees or kill you. I have no issues with George. I would charge what I could as well for a high end rep with good plating. I know he doesnt make them. I do know he travels out of the country to Taiwan where they are made or did recently. He may not be 100% on the gold plating or just the middle man to a degree. Who knows. Does it last??? Does it serve its purpose? Is the quality worth the money? The last one is a fine line I give you that. If it lasts for MANY years then I would have to say probably so.

J

Doc- I have had my WM9 TT Sub for about two years now and the Gold plating is just fine (I do not wear the watch everyday however) As you can probably guess from the different answers concerning George at WM9, the answer to your questions varies depending on the INDIVIDUALS experience.

One thing I can tell you for sure is that you should email George personally regarding your concerns and George's "Gold guarantee." It is his guarantee and seeing that there is always a personal slant to what people post, your best bet is to go to the source. Ask specific questions to George and you will get specific answers. George may not always be the fastest, but I assure you he makes good on his word or offers a refund.

BTW - I re-read your post and had to add that if you expect ANY gold plated watch to last any reasonable length of time when you do sports of ANY type that make you sweat (IE Basketball, Tennis etc) you are fooling yourself. Only solid gold will take that kind of abuse and even at that, solid gold will tarnish and wear abnormaly fast if exposed to adverse conditions like you have described.

Basically- If you emailed me and asked for a two year guarantee on gold plate that you intended to wear doing sporting activities I would probably reply "Are you kidding?" and then suggest you buy your watch somewere else...

Edited December 29, 2008 by jake48

[doctorshumes]

I was just being sarcastic about wearing the watch and playing sports. There is no way I would do that. I will email George about the life of the gold for text all gold bracelets. He has been real busy with the new sub m/z and the ym. Waiting to hear from him when he has time actually. I know it won't last forever. If it was alittle cheaper then I might not be as worried. Hell, I have a gold plated citizen watch that is "rolex" style and looks just like a datejust that has lasted for 10 years. If george lasts that long then no problem and its a done deal. <2 yrs=unacceptable, 2-5 yrs=ehhh, probably wouldn't get again, >5 yrs= good and would most likely get again. 10 yrs=wow! I have a gen sub tt that is >10-15 yrs old given to me by my dad. Pretty scratched up though. Needs a new bracelet. Definite difference in the clasp and bracelet but otherwise georges is spot on for the face/dial.

[bklm1234]

I'm not here to defend wm9/George. Personally I think there's no excuse for false advertisement. Being as old as I am, I really believe it's not always black and white though. George doesn't deserve to be labeled a scammer or bad guy. Let's not talk about morals here. Simple questions: Where else can you buy his watch? What is a better sub out there? By yelling and screaming "wm9 is a scammer", scaring people from buying from them, what good are you doing for this community? My point is don't use the black and white approach with wm9. Give them a chance. I think they are improving in terms of business practise. Give yourself a chance so you can get the best rollie reps. My communication with him shows he's a nice guy, a fair supplier, and a very serious rep maker. His stuff is good and you can't get it anywhere. Let me tell you a sad truth, maybe some self-righteous bunch will applaud, the wm9 v2 TT sub is indefinitely ON HOLD. To me it's more like KILLED, because of the screaming and yelling. Do wm9 lose or do we TT sub lover lose? Are you happy now? You know when I saw the description of the wm9 tt sub what i did? I said "yeah right, solid gold for this price, haha". I didn't buy the v1 not for the reason of gold used but rather I think it's not good enough on all the things I care. I just assumed it's gold wrapped or gold plated all around and that is good enough for me. I'm being realistic. I don't need to run extensive test to prove or disprove the claim. That was just dumb whoever did it. Maybe some people just enjoy witch-hunting. Let's give this a break already. All I care is wm9 will bring the TT sub back in 18k wrapped gold on some gold color alloy like the noob tt sub. Anybody wants solid-gold, let me tell you, "FORGET IT".

-bk

Edited December 30, 2008 by bklm1234

[the window god]

Thanks for trying to save the world

Can you say

Maybe it is to you, but can you tell me if the gold parts are really gold? It may not matter to you. However, misrepresenting a product does matter to non-complacent people. And yea... I really was going to buy the TT until this came out. So p*ss off!!!