Guest Sql_pl Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I tried to source 4030 hour wheel and canon pinion. I found and bought these parts but received correct cannon pinion in sealed container and an other part in unsealed container with part number that was supposed to be correct for hour wheel. Because of that I do not know if I got wrong part in correct hour wheel container or maybe if my hour wheel part number was incorrect from the beginning. So what I have from gen 4030 is just a canon pinion. If I won't find hand with tube allowing it to fit zenith I will then try to install the canon pinion - but like I wrote in my previous post - I am not sure if this 4030 canon pinion will be possible to install in el primero 400. It will be my last chance shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hands for El Primero's are always a problem. Most of the time I have had hour and minute ones that are within a couple of mm of the correct size, or are the exact correct size and I can install them with no problem. Subdial hands are normally ok as long as the tube is long enough, you can broach or compress them by a couple of mm to fit. The biggest common problem is always the center seconds chrono hand. I can't believe that whoever did your original work sent it back to you like this, your hand coming off has nothing to do with the postal shipping, it was never attached, very disapointing when the watchmaker who assembled it didn't notice this problem, or bother to inform you, or even test the watch...poor customer service. Almost all of the center seconds hands have too short tubes, they will not reach the center seconds post. There are hands available from somewhere as I have had them in and installed them, where to get them I don't know. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I tried to source 4030 hour wheel and canon pinion. I found and bought these parts but received correct cannon pinion in sealed container and an other part in unsealed container with part number that was supposed to be correct for hour wheel. Because of that I do not know if I got wrong part in correct hour wheel container or maybe if my hour wheel part number was incorrect from the beginning. So what I have from gen 4030 is just a canon pinion. If I won't find hand with tube allowing it to fit zenith I will then try to install the canon pinion - but like I wrote in my previous post - I am not sure if this 4030 canon pinion will be possible to install in el primero 400. It will be my last chance shot. The canon pinion has nothing to do with this problem, it's the center seconds chrono gear that is too short, you need either a longer center seconds gear or a hand with a longer tube. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 (...) I can't believe that whoever did your original work sent it back to you like this, your hand coming off has nothing to do with the postal shipping, it was never attached, very disapointing when the watchmaker who assembled it didn't notice this problem, or bother to inform you, or even test the watch...poor customer service. (...) Oh it was a different situation. I could not find help anywhere in EU and our member from Germany offered his help. I am really really thankful for him because I did not have any other option and he gave me a hand to get me out of my trouble. Actually all other hands that he fitted are great, I think he simply did not squeeze this main chrono hand enough and that's why it is loose. The problem is that my watchsmith will not try to squeeze it harder. I think when I find a hand with longer tube the problem will be solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Oh it was a different situation. I could not find help anywhere in EU and our member from Germany offered his help. I am really really thankful for him because I did not have any other option and he gave me a hand to get me out of my trouble. Actually all other hands that he fitted are great, I think he simply did not squeeze this main chrono hand enough and that's why it is loose. The problem is that my watchsmith will not try to squeeze it harder. I think when I find a hand with longer tube the problem will be solved. Understood. Based on my experience with these franken's, squeezing the tube is not going to fix your problem, the tube is too short and doesn't reach the post, that is the problem. My point was that as the person who installed the hand should have immediatley known that the hand was not attached to the post, it's that obvious and why the hand fell off when you got the watch, it was never attached... I would expect that the person doing the work tests and checks his work after he's done, if this was done, the problem would have been easy to see and you could have had it fixed before you got the watch. You need to find a hand with the correct longer tube, maybe Ubi knows where to source these... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flex Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 i have a set of gen 16520 hands if anyone is interested.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Flex I have used gen hands too. It turns out gen hands may not the best option for Franken-16520. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikom3 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Flex I have used gen hands too. It turns out gen hands may not the best option for Franken-16520. Agreed. I have three sets of hands, 1 is NOS, 2 is used but all gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikom3 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I wonder if the A7750 daytona hands would fit. I was told the tubes are smaller but couldn't get a definite size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Oh that would be good. I wonder if we can source just a set of hands without getting a full rep. EDIT: Just emailed Angus about a set of rep hands - will let you know what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselpower Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Just a quick note to sympathise and wish you all the best on this quest. Keep on going and you will reap the benefits when the watch is fixed. If it was easy everybody would be doing it. The fact is it's not and there's the rub. Crack on, knuckle down, dig deep, soldier on and you will get there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Based on my experience with these franken's, squeezing the tube is not going to fix your problem, the tube is too short and doesn't reach the post, that is the problem. My point was that as the person who installed the hand should have immediatley known that the hand was not attached to the post, it's that obvious and why the hand fell off when you got the watch, it was never attached... I would expect that the person doing the work tests and checks his work after he's done, if this was done, the problem would have been easy to see and you could have had it fixed before you got the watch. You need to find a hand with the correct longer tube, maybe Ubi knows where to source these... Ditto. Just a quick note to sympathise and wish you all the best on this quest. Keep on going and you will reap the benefits when the watch is fixed. If it was easy everybody would be doing it. The fact is it's not and there's the rub. Crack on, knuckle down, dig deep, soldier on and you will get there Diesel has it exactly right. Watchmaking, in general, & constructing frankens, in particular, require patience & drive. There are always unexpected problems & you have to just accept them as they appear & know that they WILL get solved. Just keep the target in sight & you WILL get there. By the way, the watch, even with the loose hand, is a beauty. Do Not let these minor issues deter you from reaching your goal, which is close at hand. You WILL get there (if you want to), trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Just got a reply from ebay seller: "the above hands will work for eta/val movement. It will not work on 4030. I have those coming in and I will have for 4030 by end of the month" So now the question is if a center second hand made to fit eta/val movement of a tudor chrono can be fitted to el primero? Would be perfect. I asked him about dimensions again but maybe someone else will know what tube dimensions can chrono sec hand for eta/val have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krayfish Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Looks real nice mate!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Just got a reply from ebay seller: "the above hands will work for eta/val movement. It will not work on 4030. I have those coming in and I will have for 4030 by end of the month" So now the question is if a center second hand made to fit eta/val movement of a tudor chrono can be fitted to el primero? Would be perfect. I asked him about dimensions again but maybe someone else will know what tube dimensions can chrono sec hand for eta/val have? I would PM Ubi since he has more experience building 16520 frankens with these movements than anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thanks Freddy, I have already PM'd both Randy and Rob. Oh it would be fantastic if ebay hand could work well in my watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikom3 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 looks like the a7750 hands won't work.....2.0mm and 1.5mm vs. 1.50mm and 1.00mm for the hour and minute. not sure if this is the same for eta/val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 How about big sec hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikom3 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 How about big sec hand? looks like the same deal... too big sigh.... hope the experts can chime in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 How about big sec hand? Actually, as long as the arm tube is sufficiently long, the center chrono seconds hand is usually the easiest to resize. I have (all but the minute & hour hands from) a set of gen hands installed on my 7750-powered 116520 & a full set of gen hands on 1 of my Newmans (they look so similar to DW's that I forget which is which unless I view them with a loupe - point being that the stock DW hands are quite accurate, although some do arrive with the wandering hand wand syndrome, which can be cured with a small dab of strategically placed epoxy) (Original pic courtesy of Avitt) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 OK so here is an update. Ebay hands that I posted earlier are not acceptable because they are red I am glad I asked. Seller did not mention that and in th epic it seemed to be just a reflection. It is a shame because The Zigmeister PM'd me that hands made to fit 7750 should be best. Seller pointed me to this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...y0%3D%26fvi%3D1 Where he sells silver colored hands for val 72. So here are two questions - does val72 center sec hand come with tube that ill work with el primero as good as 7750? And what about length of the center sec hand? val 72 Daytona is smaller than 16520 - I assume hand will be too short then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyd3 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 OK so here is an update. Ebay hands that I posted earlier are not acceptable because they are red I am glad I asked. Seller did not mention that and in th epic it seemed to be just a reflection. It is a shame because The Zigmeister PM'd me that hands made to fit 7750 should be best. Seller pointed me to this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...y0%3D%26fvi%3D1 Where he sells silver colored hands for val 72. So here are two questions - does val72 center sec hand come with tube that ill work with el primero as good as 7750? And what about length of the center sec hand? val 72 Daytona is smaller than 16520 - I assume hand will be too short then? I have an extra center sec hand for a val 72, bought from the seller on eBay. You are welcome to it if you would like to give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertieng Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Looked into the chrono second hand for the 7750 sec@6, surprisingly the tube is even shorter than the one on the gen. May be there is depth variation between 16520 and 116520 chrono second hand pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 @Martyd3 PM sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Hi guys. Very, very sorry for the late reply. Been busy catching up on current events with the forum while I have a few minutes. With regard to this issue- I'm not sure if the actual problem/solution has already been stated as I didn't read all the posts (sorry), but here goes. The problem is that the 4030 and the 4130 have the same size pinions/wheels etc, so the hands are more or less interchangable between these two calibers. That is, all but the center seconds for the stop watch function. The 4030 has a short pinion, and hence a long tube is necessary for the hand. The 4130 has a long pinion and hence the tube is shorter on that hand. Since both calibers use the same size hour/min and subsidiary hands, the sets are likely sold as either/or without much consideration to this factor as the majority of the hands are the same (some sellers or vendors are likely to not be aware of this difference). However, the center seconds is not exactly compatible due to tube length. The solution is to just find a 4030 specific hand or hand set- I don't know of any other way to make it work with the short tubes for this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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