ubiquitous Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Pics are compliments of the Ziggy-meister... The movement: A genuine Swiss V23 going into my DW... So, you tell me... Think you can get that movement disassembled without damage, cleaned, oiled properly, and reasembled without any training or experience? For what it's worth, this movement is probably much more simple to work with than the 7750's (please correct me if I am wrong...). I wouldn't even THINK of trying to do the work of overhauling this thing on my own. This is where the REAL skill is folks. Modding the exterior of a watch is just child's play in comparison... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy T Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Everything I take apart always has a few extra parts left over when I'm done. Why would I even think about trying to service my own movements? Yes, there are things that are best left to the professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Looks easy, just like changing the oil!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted July 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 ...with canola oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stac Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 If you are mechanically inclined than you should take the TZ Watch School course. I took it several years ago (it isnt cheap) and spent even more on tools. You would be surprised how your view on movement repair, cleaning and assembly changes. You learn how important proper lubrication is! The course opened another aspect of our hobby to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted July 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 I know my limits...! And I know I am not capable of such work! Good thing Rob is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster1 Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Oddly enough, the movement on the right has "Officine Panerai" stamped on the bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 There are the hacks, then there are the gods of watchdom. Rob is one of the latter. Even though RG has never done any work for me, I get the feeling that I agree. Just hoping September rolls by so he can take on some work from me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Speaking of someone having Mad Skillz, When Rob had my 6536 apart he tried to get the crown winding smoothed out and according to him, he had it apart, REcleaned, different types of oils, and back together FIVE TIMES before breakfast. There are the hacks, then there are the gods of watchdom. Rob is one of the latter. I think these guys, (and ladies) must have fingers like concert pianists. I have fingers like Ball Park Franks so I don't think I'd make the first cut at a watchmaking camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 The Zigmeister is an artist, not a watch repair guy. Me..........I have been collecting for years and recently mastered changing straps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Ziggy is an artist, not a watch repair guy. Me..........I have been collecting for years and recently mastered changing straps! I am still working with Lego and Lincoln Logs. I expect to have the starter sets mastered in a year or two. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dec Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 I'm about to do the TZ course, and while I'm happy to have a crack at a 6497 I don't care too much about, The Zigmeister's pics always convince me I have no future hunched over a Valjoux anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted July 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Today I got to hear my movement's heartbeat... I tell ya, the man can work some magic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekhunter Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Today I got to hear my movement's heartbeat... I tell ya, the man can work some magic... If that watch could be put back together, then putting Humpty Dumpty back togther again would have be a cake walk.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Today I got to hear my movement's heartbeat... I tell ya, the man can work some magic... Well what do we have here…I thought those pictures looked familiar… Since I seem to be the horse in this discussion, thought I would share some of the stuff I found on this one, and then let you know where it stands now (in terms of functionality) after about 6 hours of work on the movement. Whenever I get a movement like this in, meaning one that is not running and from initial inspection has missing parts, damage on some screws (meaning a hacker worked on it in the past – and that is not directed to Randy – he bought it used…) I take it apart before I do anything else. Why? Because the risk is too high for me to even wind the movement, and as you will see, my fears were well founded. So what did I see initially and what did I have to work with (this is the shortened version, and should give you a bit of insight into the amount of work needed on some of these models…) The 30 minute timer set spring is missing, it's the one on the right of the [censored] for the seconds and 30 minute wheels, and holds the 30 minute gear in each notch as it ticks over each minute. I have no spares from a V23, and even if I did, the screw that holds it down is sheared off and broken in the mainplate. I will try and glue one of my spare ones from my scrap stuff and make it work...should be fine. Lots of dirt and stuff throughout the movement, as you could see in the pics, did you note the axel grease in the mainspring barrel… The reason the watch was not running, as I removed the [censored] for the escape wheel and the second gear, I found a screw sitting in the gears, that is jammed into the escape and seconds wheel gears,...no idea where it came from. Now you know why I open and carefully tear the movement down as that screw could have ruined the movement… No other problems noted during disassembly, except for a dry and dirty movement. To get it cleaned up, I had to put it in two types of cleaner and ran it through the ultrasonic machine 3 times over a period of 20 hours…even after this, some parts I had to hand clean with pegwood. So after a good cleaning I was ready to inspect and start assembly. Luckily there was no damage to any of the gears due to the loose screw. I reassembled the mainspring and started on the motion works…everything went well, and after the basic motion works were assembled and oiled, I tried winding the movement to check for freeplay and friction, both were good and the motion works was fine. Next came the pallet arm, due to the age of the movement, and the risk of the varnish drying out and the pallet stones falling out, I put a spot of glue on both stones. Then I cleaned the impulse and locking faces of the stones, and put some pallet stone oil on the entry stone. Pallet was installed, and the next part to go in was the balance wheel. During disassembly I noted that the balance wheel was missing the hairspring stud screw, and the stud was glued in place…this would prove to be a problem… Balance installed, and the cap jewels cleaned and oiled and installed…now the big test, wind the movement, and hope it runs…yes, it ran, so after looking at it and checking the swing, I put it on the timer…Oh Oh, something is not right, to get the timing right (after I set the beat) the regulator arm is next to the stud arm..it should be about 90 degrees away…Hmmm…what is going on…visual inspection revealed the problem, the hairspring is bent like a banana and actually touching the second wheel as it expands during it’s swing… Since it’s touching the second wheel, it in effect is causing the spring to effectively be shorter, shorter spring, faster running watch, which is why the regulator arm is all the way over next to the stud arm… So my glued hairspring stud is going to have to come apart…before I start on this – knowing the risks on an old movement like this – I look on the Ofrei site on the cost of a V23 Balance…Hmmm, as if there wasn’t enough pressure, a replacement balance (of which none are available) is listed at $2500 US…that Bob Frei, what an idiot… So I scrape the glue off the stud arm, remove the balance and [censored] from the movement, and then proceed to disassemble the balance from the [censored]. I have to do this so I can bend the hairspring and get it level…normally this is quite easy as you just have to loosen the screw, but I am dealing with a glued stud on a hairspring….finally I got it out…short version is it took 3 full disassemblies of the balance to get the hairspring bent and parallel to the wheel and working as it should…in the end, I fixed it, and the regulator arm is 90 degrees from the stud arm, and the movement is working excellent. So I let it run for a while and recheck the hairspring to make sure it’s going to stay where I bent it to. Now I move on to the chrono parts and reassembling and oiling them…no real problems, some of the levers and stuff are sticky due to age, but disassembly and hand cleaning with a pegwood achieves the results I need, and it all frees up and works fine. All of the chrono adjustments were out, and since most are interconnected (meaning you move one, and the others are affected…) it takes a while to get them all right… Rest of assembly goes fine, and when I get to the missing 30 minute spring for the counter, I find one in my scrap bin, install it over the eccentric screw (amazingly it fits), adjust it in the reset position centered between the gear teeth, and glue the spring in place. Once adjusted it needs no further adjustment. Chrono is started and run, and all the various adjustments for the gears, the second wheel and how it engages to the 30 minute wheel, and the reset position and adjustments are done, and it’s working good… That was finished last night, and the chrono was left running all night, to test all the parts, and this morning the watch is still running strong, good swing, and keeping good time… Now all that is left is to install the dial and hands, and get it fitted into the case… That is a shortened version of what was done and checked and adjusted on this one. This being the extreme due to age and some damage, but typically all chrono’s need to be adjusted after service, since the most aren’t adjusted correctly to begin with… And yes, as Randy said, this model is much simpler than a 7750 when it comes to assembly… And being the big tease that I am, I called Randy’s work number and left a recording on his machine of the watch ticking on the analyzer so he could hear it…”Tic toc, tic toc...” sleep tight Randy, your baby will be on the way next week… Thanks for reading, hope it provides a bit of insight into the fun I have on the workbench… I’ll take some shots tonight of it assembled and cleaned up and the printout reading…it looks much better now, and runs perfect… And thanks for the kind words from those I have had the privelage of working on their watches...and it is a privelage for me to work on something so personal. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Kudos to you The Zigmeister.....unfortunately ( or that could be fortunately ).....my hands were meant for holding champagne flutes and sifting 100 pound notes.....not for picking up tiny screws off the floor..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted July 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 As most of you guys know, this watch is amongst my favorites; I've been through 2 (maybe 3) movements now, and so I am hellbent on getting it restored back to working condition. So much so, that I sacrificed a perfectly good, Ziggy serviced and verified DW 6263 to get this one going. I feel very fortunate and appreciative that we have a Ziggy to help make those visions a reality. I take comfort in knowing that the job is done right; no hacks or work arounds, no short cuts and no cutting corners. In this day and age, it's so very rare to find someone who is not only as skilled, knowledgable and experienced as Ziggy, but also takes pride in the work performed. Thanks, Rob! Best, Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Kudos to you Ziggy.....unfortunately ( or that could be fortunately ).....my hands were meant for holding champagne flutes and sifting 100 pound notes.....not for picking up tiny screws off the floor..... My fingers were meant to be grilled and put in a bun with mustard and relish. I have enough trouble picking up a dime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectionist Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) Do £100 pound notes exist ?? Anyhow, all this watch repairing malarkay looks like childs play to me ....... Flame On !! (as they say in the Fantastic four ) Edited July 28, 2006 by Perfectionist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Do £100 pound notes exist ?? If you have to ask, then not in your world ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005SUBMARINER Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 man i would learn how to do that some day .. hey UBI you have some killer watches man !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Do £100 pound notes exist ?? Hell, yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectionist Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 (edited) Hell, No !! TTK is obviously confused ..... either that or someone's been paying him with replica money LOL http://www.currencyworld.biz/articles/gpb/ Edited July 29, 2006 by Perfectionist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Hell, No !! TTK is obviously confused ..... either that or someone's been paying him with replica money LOL http://www.currencyworld.biz/articles/gpb/ You know Scotland has it's own bank notes, yes? Northern Ireland too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Hell, No !! TTK is obviously confused ..... either that or someone's been paying him with replica money LOL I'll not bother mentioning the fact that the Bank of England prints one million pound notes then. That's not a million one pound notes, but notes worth one million pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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