ryyannon Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Tour de Fraud? "I don't want to sound like Oliver Stone, but it raises some questions in my mind as to what's going on here.'' http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home Testosterone Used During Race Wouldn't Have Helped, Experts Say July 28 (Bloomberg) -- Testosterone, the human hormone now linked with American Floyd Landis's Tour de France win, wouldn't have helped his performance if taken during this year's prestigious bicycle race, experts said today. The hormone helps athletes train for races by enlarging muscle fibers over weeks of training, according to two American doctors and a consultant with the Montreal-based based World Anti-Doping Association, which has coordinated control of performance-enhancing drugs in Olympic-level sports since 1999. ``This effect takes several weeks to come into play,'' said Charles Yesalis, a Penn State University professor of health and human development, in a telephone interview today. ``I don't want to sound like Oliver Stone, but it raises some questions in my mind as to what's going on here.'' Landis, 30, whose hormone levels were found to be elevated after the 17th stage of the race, passed tests on six other occasions during the three-week event. Landis, who denied dosing himself with the hormone in a news conference today, would become the first winner of cycling's premier event to be stripped of the title for drug use if a second test of his urine, taken at the same time, confirms a violation. Those results may not be available for at least two weeks, according to the sport's ruling body. Testosterone ``increases the cross-sectional areas of the muscle and the size of the muscle fibers,'' said Timothy Foster, a Boston University School of Medicine professor of orthopedic surgery and sports medicine, in a phone interview today. ``It's not something that happens overnight.'' `Short-Term' ``Testosterone doesn't help in the short term,'' agreed Steven Ungerleider, the Anti-Doping Association consultant, in a telephone interview today from Eugene, Oregon. ``None of the synthetic derivatives of testosterone would help in the short term, you have to go on long-term cycles involving a strict regimen.'' Ungerleider's group was formed in 1999 with support from the International Olympics Committee to help coordinate the fight against performance-enhancing drugs in sport. Illegal in the U.S. save for sanctioned medical uses, athletes can definitely gain an edge using the hormone over several weeks, the experts said. Hormones are naturally produced substances in the body that turn on genes in the body involving the size and shape of organs such as the breast, brain, skin and heart. Testosterone can lead to bigger muscles, and better muscle definition. Levels Higher in Men Men's testosterone levels are usually about 300 to 1,000 nanograms per deciliter of blood, about 10 times greater than those normally found in women, according to the U.S. National Institutes of Health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 The assertion by some that Floyd took some kind of 1-shot hit of testosterone the night before his huge win on Stage 18 and that's why he won is preposterous, as the testimony of the experts in this article confirms. He won because he was the strongest rider in this year's Tour. The juice works only if it's taken over a period of weeks, even months. Floyd was tested 3 times the previous week when he was in yellow and apparently passed these. He has always had unusually high testosterone levels, as do many athletes. As one of the head docs on the World Anti-Doping Association said yesterday: "Something here just doesn't add up." Couple that with Floyd's background, reputation, and character and you would logically conclude that he did not cheat. Moreover, the results of the A sample should not have been released until confirmed by the B sample. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Don't knock a hit of testosterone till you try it! It is usually attached to different esters and suspended in oil; then inserted into the muscle so it disperses slowly (this is the 2 week stuff). You stick enough test prop in your ass, glue, delt, etc and you will feel it right away! Sometimes test base is suspended in water, instant kick-in. Burns like a mother! Leaves the system quick to, favorite of the NFL. And then there is epitestosterone you can inject to hide the good stuff. Then there is the designer stuff you can't detect at all! Disclamer: I know nothing about cycling and think it is a sissy sport (sorry). But I know enough about Test to call [censored] on anyone who says enough of the right stuff won't give you a nice boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doopey Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 (edited) Disclamer: I know nothing about cycling and think it is a sissy sport (sorry). Edited July 30, 2006 by doopey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www_watch Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 as the testimony of the experts in this article confirms. They only talk about the effects on the muscle structure. That may take some weeks.... ok. But there are other effects too. It makes you aggressive, feel no pain and ignore your physical limits. Perfect for going through a tough mountain stage on the Tour, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I will take the bet that Landis did not dope (at least not this Tour). No one who has been tested six times over the course of the Tour, has seen all his contemporaries thrown out prior to it starting and has elected to give the Tour one more shot before replacing a hip is going to knowingly take any illegal aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Free based Testeron in suspension works fast its not bind to any esters. Cheers, D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 No one who has been tested six times over the course of the Tour, has seen all his contemporaries thrown out prior to it starting and has elected to give the Tour one more shot before replacing a hip is going to knowingly take any illegal aid. ... unless he thought he could get away with it and he needed it to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cucumber_Jones Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I know nothing about cycling and think it is a sissy sport (sorry). Wow what an ignorant comment. Cycling is one of the most brutal sports in the world. The tour is 20 stages of racing with an average of 225 KM per day over mountians. The crashes are brutal. If you admit that you know nothing about it then why make such a statement - is it just to offend people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Craytonic. Get on a bike and climb the Alpe d'Huez or Mont Ventoux as hard as you can all the way to the summit, then tell me what a sissy sport cycling is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) Ignorance is bliss. Competitive cycling is is beyond category. Few humans are even capable of it. As far as Floyd is concerned. If there was ever an endurance athlete that doesn't dope...it is Floyd Landis. The lab that is reporting these test findings is the same lab (French) that repeatedly released information after previous Tour's, on Armstrong. The 'French Conspiracy' I believe it is called. Landis is innocent of doping in this Tour. Period. Edited July 30, 2006 by jeff g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 The lab that is reporting these test findings is the same lab (French) that repeatedly release information after previous Tour's, on Armstrong. The 'French Conspiracy' I believe it is called. French Conspiracy? Load of [censored], more like. It's the Tour De France, so they're bound to be French. The doping scandals with cycling happen everywhere in the world, not just France. It's a sport of dopers, and the rest of the world is finally seeing what the French, Spanish and Italians have been trying to play down for decades. Sponsors are leaving in droves, attendance is down, fixing is rife ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Some pepole love cycling and others hate it. In my case, it is the only sport I watch religiously. What other sport requires the same level of effort as a triathlon for 21 days in a row, incessant teamwork and has all the elements of a game of chess. Make no mistake, with or without doping, cyclists are the most fit people on the planet. Watching a man climb a major Alp or ride against the clock is EPIC. Mere mortals cannot imagine. And it comes from hardwork not simply being a physical freak. IMHO, every other sport pales in comparison. And I am an ignorant American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) Regarding my comment concerning the 'French Conspiracy'. Basso and Ullrich were thrown out for doping allegations prior to the Tour. A result of a Spanish investigation. My comments concerning the French were not intended to impune the 'French' per se. but rather the Testing organization, which happens to be French. Edited July 30, 2006 by jeff g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Regarding my comment concerning the 'French Conspiracy'. Ok, I usually hear the French Conspiracy dragged out every time it looks like a US rider gets done for doping. As in "They only want French riders to win" sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cucumber_Jones Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Some pepole love cycling and others hate it. In my case, it is the only sport I watch religiously. What other sport requires the same level of effort as a triathlon for 21 days in a row, incessant teamwork and has all the elements of a game of chess. Make no mistake, with or without doping, cyclists are the most fit people on the planet. Watching a man climb a major Alp or ride against the clock is EPIC. Mere mortals cannot imagine. And it comes from hardwork not simply being a physical freak. IMHO, every other sport pales in comparison. And I am an ignorant American. Yes every sport does pale in comparison. Did you see the guys crash over the side of the road this year. That was sick. I will watch the tour everyday. I just wish the Giro was on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Craytonic. Get on a bike and climb the Alpe d'Huez or Mont Ventoux as hard as you can all the way to the summit, then tell me what a sissy sport cycling is. Eh, I was a varsity athlete in college on a nationally ranked team (so I know a little about exertion) and knew many of the players from the other teams; I think I have a good feel on how difficult each was (and also an idea of which ones were on T). We did not have a cycling team, but I have know a few cyclists and just was not that impressed compared to others. They were not doing the tour, but still (and they shaved their legs). I am sure it is difficult; but I personally would rather stare at a mountain to climb than an offensive line full of 300lb guys. Your opinion may of course be different but that is mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Cray- Can you name another sport where you burn 6-10,000 calories per day, keep your heart rate at 170-200 bpm for several hours at a time and then have to make sure not to crash at anywhere from 30-70 miles per hour from a 17 pound bike? Now do this for 20 days in a row. And that is one race. In this case you are on a team but on this team everyone on the team is working 100% of the time. No changing of lines or timeouts. And yes these folks aren't the biggest and the baddest. What they are are some of the fittest men on the planet. The amount of energy a professional cyclist can generate over an extended period of time dwarfs virtually every other sport. Only comparable sport would be a triathlon and you don't do twenty in a twenty four day period. And we wonder why so many dope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Hey, Sorry I tried to argue this one, it is really a perspective question and everyone probably has a different opinion on which is the hardest. Also took away from my point. Not really worth running in circles, but you are probably right it is not a whimpy sport. I was just a little off-put by the leg shaving and them being a tad on the small side. But, I would like to emphasize my main point. A decent shot of Test Suspension will make a difference immediately - perhaps only in the head, but it is there. I have no idea if the guy did it or did not; have not followed the story at all. I just know you can feel that stuff almost instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailadams Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 But the question is not 'is cycling a sissy sport' but 'did floyd landis dope himself up with epitestosterone before stage 17'? If he had, he would not have won the stage. He would have finished at the back of the peloton. Duh [censored]in duh. Read up on hormones, steroids, their effects, etc. They can't attack Lance anymore, so now they go for Floyd. Of course, the only real dopers using the Spanish connection doctor are from where? Not US. Not France either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 ... 'did floyd landis dope himself up with epitestosterone before stage 17'? If he had, he would not have won the stage. He would have finished at the back of the peloton. Duh [censored]in duh. Read up on hormones, steroids, their effects, etc. You aren't really reading between the lines about why I speak with such authority on the effects, are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) I'm an ex-cyclist....time trialling and road racing.......never up to Tour standards....but did well on the UK scene.....I can tell you at whatever level it's tough......! I had my vasectomy done in '76....9am.....woke up at 12pm.......big fry-up and went out and did a 60 mile training run......great doctor he was.... Dya wanna know why they shave their legs......it ain't got nothing to do with aerodynamics......! When you're involved in a road crash.....the biggest injuries apart from breaks are long deep grazes.......if a hair gets embedded in a graze and left it can cause septicaemia......! And yes...cycling is regarded as the toughest sport nowadays......because of the length of the race.....a cyclist can be in the saddle for 8 hours.......every day......! Water polo is reckoned to be the next toughest sport.....alien environment et al.....lacrosse runs close. Edited August 14, 2006 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 Snooker after one too many pints of Guinness is pretty tough also! JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 Aye, but only if yer stuck oot somewhere like the Garngad and yer no the wan haudin' the jerseys....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 cycling is but that its a hard HARD sport i can agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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