offshore Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I know this topic will raise some eyebrows, and potentially hackles as well. However I would like to get some, across the board views. Now we all know and realise, that anything short of a full strip down, clean and lube, is a faux service. We all know as well, that to complete it well, and successfully, takes at least a day, and costs from $150 upwards. And yes, it is the only way to properly service a mechanical watch. However- Let me pose some questions. Is a splash & dip service, better than no service? I realise that jewels are not being properly cleaned, and that lubrication is less than desirable. Yes it is a shortcut, but is it worse than no service? And, If it is such a negative, why does the pre eminent cleaning solutions supplier, L & R, supply their Duo Lube, and Solo Lube cleaning products? Duo-Lube #1 & #2 Watch Lubricant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 In layman terms...I would say.....splash n dash servicing is better than no servicing at all. A quickie is better than not getting any at all.....ain't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 It works "quite" well.. most regular people (ie who don't post here) would consider it appropriate for a replica. Of course we all prefer to fool ourselves that we own the real thing and service them properly. I personally can't bring myself to do it, but I can totally see why others do, especially on fakes or cheapies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I would say that doing this is a compromise, between full teardown and servicing and nothing at all. I could see how you could do this on say a simple 2836 style movement, the type where you can easily remove the mainspring barrel. On most asian auto's, there is only one bridge covering all the parts so I dont' see this being usable on this type. 7750 needs a full teardown to get the mainspring barrel removed, so I can't see it working. As well, with all the nook and crannies on these chrono's, I don't know how you would ever remove all the solution. What I don't like about this is that everything gets coated in a film of lubricant, and it's the same lubricant. We all know that you require differing amounts and types of oils as you move from the mainspring to the escape wheel. The lubricant that is deposited can't be too thick, or it would prevent the movement from running. That being the case, I think the mainspring pivots, the great wheel and the 3rd wheel would have issues eventually, meaning they would wear out from lack of a heavy enough lubricant. Personally I would not offer or do this as a service. My motto is do it 100% right or not at all. It would be interesting to know how well this holds up over time. Things like the mainspring and barrel, which we know need a good cleaning and fresh grease to prevent wear, are totally ignored doing this process. You would still have to clean and oil the cap jewels, and the biggest issue would be getting all the solution out of the movement. Weighing the pro's and con's, I think it's going to cause more problems that it's worth, but I have nothing to back it up. I remember the one movement I did this way as a test a long time ago, and reported the results here on RWG. If was a mess, lubricant everywhere between the plates etc...and in the end, it took me as long, or longer to do this short cut servicing than if I just did it my regular way. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Well said, R. How about an observation re: my 1680 that you just did? There was no oil AT ALL in several critical places, after an obvious dunk-and-run servicing by "the other guys". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smc Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Mmmm... Quickie with lube..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I have no technical insight whatsoever to post. Although, while on the topic of swish, dip, lube, etc.. I can't refrain from pondering what experts like zig and OS think about including THIS in their repertoire of services, and the costs associated with application of said lubricants. Zig, that was 100% or not at all, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I have no technical insight whatsoever to post. Although, while on the topic of swish, dip, lube, etc.. I can't refrain from pondering what experts like zig and OS think about including THIS in their repertoire of services, and the costs associated with application of said lubricants. Zig, that was 100% or not at all, right? Off topic it is...I was not aware of this product, sounds interesting to say the least. On Topic. Yes Nanuq, the mainspring barrel alone would be all I need to convince me that quick lubes are reserved for street walkers and not their watches... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrenalin Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 A wise man once told me... "If you dont have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again until it is?" I dont think thats a very good idea at all. Just my 2 cents. -K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 quick lubes are reserved for street walkers and not their watches... RG Sound advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 It's a tricky call. To throw a completely unqualified wrench into the mix...I think the other issue is revenue stream for career watch folks and customer demand. Folks that attend the forum here and care about watches in general would probably not want this solution...butI have said it time and time again, that we're a real minority as far as people who have mechanical watches in the wild. Many have cheaper watches and couldn't really care less about what's inside or what the item is...and just want to be able to wear it and not worry about it. MOST people are inherently cheap and want to take shortcuts where possible...especially with items they don't understand. From a business perspective for Offshore, I think you should consider it. The customers want it...if you explain the risk...you're offering a service they want at a price point they will consider...and it will bring in a customer base you would otherwise lose. If anybody has any watch worth anything...that becomes the role of the repairer as a subject expert to highly recommend proper servicing vs. a quickie. For somebody like The Zigmeister who does this is a hobby and has as a client base, watch ENTHUSIASTS...this isn't a product that would either suit the kind of work he does, nor the type of clients her services. BUT...for John Q. Public...who complains about a $10 battery change...how can you sell them on a $200 servicing charge? They would rather buy a cheap $130 quartz than maintain a mechanical watch....not recognizing the value it may have (emotionally, physically, etc). A $60 quickie gives them something...and costs less than the replacement watch they would otherwise have bought as an alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amptor1 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 This is one thing I have been considering lately. I assumed that a service would probably cost $150 on one watch. So most of my watches cost < $150 including my Seiko. Would it not be more logical that instead of servicing these watches, just buy new ones when they quit? I'm thinking that the only ones that'd get serviced are ones that can't be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Would it not be more logical that instead of servicing these watches, just buy new ones when they quit? I'm thinking that the only ones that'd get serviced are ones that can't be replaced. That's my usual recommendation. Some reps we've seen by history, stop being made...and thus, can't be replaced readily We can never determine which these will be...so my theory is, if you have one you really like and would miss if it stops working...service it. Otherwise...let it die and buy new when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have to agree with Ziggy, but I think many watchmakers go the dunk-&-run route because of recommendations from generally reliable sources like L&R or Bulova. My ultrasonic's manual includes this note - 'Partially disassembling watch movements will save many profitable minutes in servicing a watch. The Watchmaster Ultrasonic Cleaner will clean most watches thoroughly without the removal of cap jewels, balance, time train, dial train or setting parts! Ultrasonic cavitation actually scrubs thoroughly if watches are only partially disassembled. Inspection and oiling will necessitate further disassembly, however. With a little experience, each individual watch-repairman will soon learn how much time can be saved in this specific operation.' Note that it specifies 'further disassembly' for proper inspection & oiling, which means the shortcut is only relevant for known good movements that do not require servicing. Ziggy has covered all of the cons that I have always heard, but what seems even more troubling to me is your inability to thoroughly dry the internal components using this partial disassembly procedure. And that leaves all sorts of rusty nightmarish scenarios floating around my head. So, in answer to the question 'Is a quick shower better than nothing at all?', I would say yes, but with the reservations I mentioned above. I do know that journeymen watchmakers, those guys who either apprenticed with their fathers or went to a formal watchmaking school, always laugh at the idea of doing anything short of a full & complete disassembly (down to removing (& replacing) the mainspring from the barrel & separating the hairspring from the balance). But these guys operate in a world that says you either do the job right or not at all, instead of the bottom-line do-the-minimum-required-by-law world of today. As far as I am concerned, if Ziggy is unconvinced (to take the shortcut), that is good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amptor1 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 That's my usual recommendation. Some reps we've seen by history, stop being made...and thus, can't be replaced readily We can never determine which these will be...so my theory is, if you have one you really like and would miss if it stops working...service it. Otherwise...let it die and buy new when the time comes. Yeah that's what I'm thinking, one example would be the 42.5mm 4th generation PO. Discontinued watch but it is a fantastic watch so I'd be wanting to service it. Although it did cost more than $150.. if TT still carries it after 4 years needing service, it'll probably cost $400 to replace anyways with the inflated prices. Also I have one airking that the crown stripped from the tube..and the dealer I bought it from absolutely refuses to sell me it in anything other than swiss (it is asian with swiss model case, dial, everything).. so it has been sitting for over a year, no idea how to fix that. It looks like the Seiko I have however is plentiful on Ebay even still to this date, not sure why..I doubt seiko even makes it any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Also I have one airking that the crown stripped from the tube..and the dealer I bought it from absolutely refuses to sell me it in anything other than swiss (it is asian with swiss model case, dial, everything).. so it has been sitting for over a year, no idea how to fix that. It looks like the Seiko I have however is plentiful on Ebay even still to this date, not sure why..I doubt seiko even makes it any more. You can replace the airking crown and tube with either an aftermarket or gen crown and tube. You just have to get the right part number. Post a request with pics in the rolex section and somebody should know the info. As to the Seiko...there are lots of Seiko parts out there for repair if you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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