lanikai Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I have always wondered about the history of the European Football.. or as we say in the USA ... Soccer ~ Are the traditions steeped in History ? Growing up as a kid in different Countries that hold football as a National tradition.. were you socialized at a young age to believe it is your communities "Honour" ?? I heard on the ESPN radio Station today .. that a survey showed Men in the UK think more about soccer than sex.. ... so I really would like to hear WTF .. is it really about... ?? for example .. I love the commercial that shows a couple smoozing on a couch.. and when the camera pans back the gal is wearing an Ohio State sweater and the dude has on a Michigan (Wolverine) sweater... I mean we here in the USA hold traditions in American Football from the High School level through College.. de. .... Notre Dame.. USC rivalries .. the Super Bowl is a Nationally viewed and may as well become a National Holiday ... but nothing like the rivalries that I read about.. people getting stampeded to death.. riots.. etc. in Soccer Stadiums .. So please enlighten this member who would like to know "what is it about really"?? I mean I am about winning just as much as the next guy ... but never thought of rioting when the team I want to win looses... so members from around the World.. what do ya think.. and who has the best team and WHY ??? Aloha~Cheers L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I thought it grew out of the Poms love of kicking heads I'll get my coat Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I thought it grew out of the Poms love of kicking heads I'll get my coat Ken what's a Poms ??? Oh, Oh.. think that may start somethin hea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siesta181 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I watch both Soccer and American football. Love them both to bits. Soccer for its simplicity and continous flow. Football for its meticulous detail and brutality (Footie and and rugby fans might want to differ, but I watch these as well). Yes I think soccer is steeped in history, rivalries and sometime politics as well. Some examples; Liverpool / Everton - Stadiums separated by a river, less that 2km apart. This used to be a heated rivalry back in the 80s but its somewhat friendlier these days, probably due to the fact that Everton doesnt have that much money nowadays. Barcelona / Real Madrid - Fiercely indepedent Basque club Barcelona vs the royal family backed aristocrats from the capital. There are other more heated rivalries which I am quite sure our EU members can elaborate on. Let's not even get started on South and Central American soccer. Countries have gone to war over a soccer result. Its sheer lunancy, I tell ya... siesta181 nil satis nisi optimum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Thanks Siesta... I guess when you talk about Countries that have centuries of history and Classes .. it makes a difference .... today's gladiators are athletes.. L Domino Optimo Maximo ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Celtics vs the Rangers More than a soccer game....a bloodbath Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siesta181 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Yeah.... how did I miss that.... Catholics and Protestants backed clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Celtics vs the Rangers More than a soccer game....a bloodbath Ken now that sounds like great entertainment... hey Kenners ... I never noticed your post count before A religious Soccer game.. sheesh.. what next.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Manchester United v. Liverpool. Nuff said. In Europe it's safe to say most people lived in the same town for generations. Freedom of movement is much greater here in the states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Go Red Devils! The English invented futbol by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miagi Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I have always wondered about the history of the European Football.. or as we say in the USA ... Soccer ~ Are the traditions steeped in History ? Growing up as a kid in different Countries that hold football as a National tradition.. were you socialized at a young age to believe it is your communities "Honour" ?? I heard on the ESPN radio Station today .. that a survey showed Men in the UK think more about soccer than sex.. ... so I really would like to hear WTF .. is it really about... ?? for example .. I love the commercial that shows a couple smoozing on a couch.. and when the camera pans back the gal is wearing an Ohio State sweater and the dude has on a Michigan (Wolverine) sweater... I mean we here in the USA hold traditions in American Football from the High School level through College.. de. .... Notre Dame.. USC rivalries .. the Super Bowl is a Nationally viewed and may as well become a National Holiday ... but nothing like the rivalries that I read about.. people getting stampeded to death.. riots.. etc. in Soccer Stadiums .. So please enlighten this member who would like to know "what is it about really"?? I mean I am about winning just as much as the next guy ... but never thought of rioting when the team I want to win looses... so members from around the World.. what do ya think.. and who has the best team and WHY ??? Aloha~Cheers L for the sake of the game, lets call it FOOTBALL shal we? at least we are the ones kicking the ball hehe! as everyone who have a favorite team in any sport can relate to the great feeling and emotions when the team YOU love/support does well. it's all about people coming together sharing a common interest in the team/sport. growing up with a team (in europe we dont have many school teams like in america where you have highschool/college teams. we have more city-teams. - and in bigger cities where two or more teams of the best leagues in that country is located, you BETTER be supporting the team from YOUR part of the city! - and this is when things get crazy! to mention a few of the team rivalries where a game can go completly out of hands both on the field and among supporters: river plate vs bocca juniors (people gets beat to death!) Crvena Zvezda (red star) vs Partizan Fenerbah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Thank you miagi.. you draw a better picture for me.. coming from Hawaii where all we really have is High School rivalries.. inner city rivalries that go back generations must be complex to say the least. As siesta points out .. generations in one community .. must make for loyal and intense pride.. do the players get paid as much as the pro's in America?.. IMO it has gotten out of hand.. although the players deserve a cut of the profit for laying their bodies on the line.. I disagree with players coming out of College .. (Unproven).. making millions from the start.. then proving not to be worth the money.. it has become too "Hollywood" with fireworks and all... I guess it's all about the money ... I mean that player that came from UK to play for the LA Galaxy (Beckum)... being paid millions to try and bring attention to the sport.. and not really contributing anything .. but being treated like Royalty and claiming to be injured most of the time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siesta181 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 In terms of monetary returns, the highest earners in football will not get paid as much as the US superstars in baseball or basketball. No such thing as a draft where unproven rookies get millions. In soccer, players make money on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th contracts they sign. You got to show what you can do before you get paid. The draft in US pro sports is a good idea... it creates parity, equality and balance. Any Given Sunday. But someone need to check the amount of money being doled out to these rookies. Soccer success in the rest of the world is about who has the most money. Money can buy success on a consistent basis. Once in a while, you'll get a cinderella story but its very rare.The English Premiership has been won by only 4 clubs since its inception in the early 90s. Compare this to the number of superbowl winners during the same period. In A football, teams can be successful over a 10 year period through consistently good QB play. Might not win the SB (Jim Kelly case in point) but you'll be fun to watch. In soccer, teams can dominate consistently over decades. Manure has been dominating English league for close to 20 years now. Barcelona and Madrid has been dominating their league since forever.... cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Thanks siesta I'm getting an education .. first hand.. ergo a better understanding of your game.. I like the fact that your athletes have to prove their worth.. kinda like the NBA rookie cap.. the NFL will someday (hopefully) follow the NBA's lead ... it's getting that no one want's to gamble on the first pick of the draft... it ties up all the salary cap and if the draft is a bust.. they suffer for years with that pick. The Patriot's have proven that it can be done.. They "create" great athelete's and "Team" they are already the "model" ..IMO for the rest of the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siesta181 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I find the current NFL draft extremely queer as well..... this draft especially. No clear cut can't miss prospect and they have to dole out over 35 million guaranteed to the number 1 pick (if he's a QB). What a mess.... No peytons or elways in this draft and yet the amount remains the same... Total crapshoot if you ask me. Patriots are an exception to the norm....Hate them for being so successful.... They are like Toyotas, boring but reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I find the current NFL draft extremely queer as well..... this draft especially. No clear cut can't miss prospect and they have to dole out over 35 million guaranteed to the number 1 pick (if he's a QB). What a mess.... No peytons or elways in this draft and yet the amount remains the same... Total crapshoot if you ask me. Patriots are an exception to the norm....Hate them for being so successful.... They are like Toyotas, boring but reliable. the IQ test have proven to be worthwhile.. Peyton Manning score was like 36 I beleive.. and Matthew Stafford scored about the same.. extremely high.. but still QB's in the past few years have proven a crap shoot regarless of the testing and combines .. Vince Young is a prime example.. his comprhension for complex Pro formations and reads is incredibly lacking.. he was great on the College level .. but a real bust as far as a NFL QB.. his wonderlick test was below average.. I think a 12 or lower.. Going to be interesting to see how Sanchez from USC will do .. especially when Carroll chastized him for leaving,.. saying he is not ready... but he proved time and again in the big games that he could handle the pressure and be clutch when it counted.. that made Pete Carroll look very self serving.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialvat Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Someone once said "its a funny old game", Coming from liverpool and going to both anfield and goodison as a child. I can say you pick the faith in your team up from your Dad, you are taken to the match for the first time when your a child and its intense. When my ex girlfriend had a baby a few years back I bought him a Liverpool kit so the first picture of him was him in his tiny kit, He is a little liverpool supporter now. I dont agree with the wages, but who you support from childhood doesnt change because they turned the game into a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Football is a strange one. Growing up I supported Liverpool as that was who my uncle supported and we used to watch the games together. It used to be about passion, intense rivalry, and certainly in my teenage ages it was all about trying to topple Manchester Utd from their top spot. Everything they did in the 90's turned to gold! Now we're at the end of the first decade of the millenium, and it's about sponsorship, amateur dramatics and money. The game has changed and evolved, so much. The teams used to be predominantly made up of British players, now they're in the minority. This brings good and bad things to the game. Firstly, the good things include incredible skill from the continental Europeans and South American's, a much faster game, and a lot more variety. The bad things include petty diving to get people booked, our national team suffering through lack of youthful players coming through the teams and managers changin hands like they're going out of fashion. As for the game of football itself, many ask why I don't enjoy rugby....well I think because I was brought up on football and have played my whole life I just think it is a beautiful game to watch. There is nothing like seeing a team thread some quick short passes only to see their efforts rewarded by the ball being slammed into the back of the net. Furthermore, where else can you go, and say exactly the same thing at exactly the same time as 30,000 other people and not think that's a phenomena haha I think the best meeting is when Celtic play Liverpool. They have the same team song (You'll never walk alone). Without a doubt it is one of the most amazing things you'll ever hear.....60,000 people singing the same song in a stadium! Onto the rioting.....some people look at their football team as a religion. It is really a passion that they feel very strong about. It is like a family to some people. They go overboard, fights break out, people get injured, or sometimes worse, there are fatalities. However, the media in the UK is an abomination. They love to portray everything British in a negative way. I have been to lots of football games and never have I witnessed anything other than heartfelt support, and good natured banter (which can include one or two swear words Il have you believe haha) However, when things trun bad, the media makes it out to be the start of World War 3 and the whole world gets to know about it. If you want to go to a match brawl, hedge yor bets at a Millwall game As for the best team in the world, wow that's a tough one. For consistency over the years, teams such as Manchester United, Barcelona, Real Madrid and I would have to say Liverpool because I support them and I am very biased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammandel Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 To add a little about culture; I think the way the UK approaches things culturally is completely different. The finals of games aren't preceded with people singing "God Save the Queen" and the Red Arrows flying overhead while the audience cry staring at the National Flag. It seems to me that America is forced to be involved with watching and absorbing the superbowl. The level of patriotism, and as such the idea of belonging seems to be alot stronger in the US. Football is an interesting game that has changed over the past 40 years in a great way. There are 2 sides to it though; you mentioned the 'hooliganism' that goes on within the rivalry, but this is somewhat a stereotypical view and often limited to particular 'rival' teams. (i.e. Green Street). This is prominent when in some areas of London, when things like pubs may only welcome supporters of a certain local team.. The other side is one that seems on the outer somewhat more 'glamorous', these involve the top teams fuelled by billions of pounds in order to 'buy success' (as mentioned above and are supported by a large fanbase including often less 'serious' (and I choose my words carefully!) supporters. See, what I've found in my personal experience is the people that support the 'smaller' less successful teams that are rooted in this hooliganism activity arent ever just passive supporters! Football involvement is basically prompted at an early age by either peoples fathers, or through Gym classes at school, and follows on from there - but there is no real force to get into it. On the other hand some of the stereotypically 'middle/upper class' schools people would not play football at all and instead play Rugby; as such in some affluent areas locally seem more involved and interested in Rugby as a result. You mention college; the whole way American football works is totally different to European football in this respect. Individuals are not given scholarships to universities to study things like history or economics for their sporting prowess at all in the UK. There is no established culture of this, infact I'd go as far to say if you wanted to follow your sporting dream you would have to depart from serious education when school finishes (16 years of age) and attempt to get into a number of football recruitment or School of Excellence programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 For all the watches in the world , you can't beat 90 minutes with the mighty Hammers, even if those North London Spurs monkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki6 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Scottish football has, unfortunately, went way down hill over the 20years or so. It used to be, if you looked at any succesful team in England, and several European countries, there would be a spine of Scottish players in their side. Leeds with Bremner, Liverpool with Dagliesh, Souness, Hansen, et al. Now a days, there is very few REAL good Scottish players anywhere, especially in Scotland! Our football has suffered very badly from 2 maladys. One, the Celtic-Rangers dominance, over the past 20-25 years they have been the only real contenders for any real silverware (trophies and league titles) in Scotland, due to this if you ask most Scottish youngsters who they support you will inevitably get the answer Celtic or Rangers, no matter where they come from. But sadly, Scottish football suffers from the afore mentioned religous disease. Now don't get me wrong, I have my own faith and I strongly believe in it, but I would never push it upon another and certainly would never have it enter the hallowed stadia of Football! Kids here tend to get segregated to catholic or protestant schools, where you either support celtic for catholic or ranger for protestant. Every so often you will get a kid who supports his local team (hearts of hibs for Edinburgh, dundee or dundee utd for dundee etc...) But, sadly, we suffer from the celtic rangers malady more than ever. They have all the money so get to buy the pick of the players in Scotland and abroad, and we have the "we support the winners" mentality, see Manchester United fans for themost part!! The other part of the malady, being a small nation, we don't produce the same volume of players as other countries, and the training from an early age has almost dissappeared. It used to be, you had primery school football teams (from the age of 5-11) then highschool teams (ages 11-18) and while playing for these teams, there was the chance of being picked for regional teams, which would play in regional leagues outwith the school leagues. These teams usually had strong connections with the big teams (lets call them 'feeder' teams) so they would nurture these youngsters until one of the pro clubs would take them on youth books. This rarely happens anymore, in the late 70's early 80's we had a big problem with teachers not getting paid enough. School teachers would get paid terrible wages but were expected to still do voluntery extra carricular pastimes, ie, run the school football team. When teachers started to complain then start to strike over pay, one of the first thingss to go was the after school activities, manly the school football teams. As a nation, Scotland, in my opinion, has never recovered from this, and so it goes around, religion rules the big teams, and the big teams rule the leagues, they buy in foriegn rather than cultivateing homegrown talent because it is easier and cheaper to buy a 'ready made' good footballer than to train from grassroots upwards! A very sad state of affairs, BUT, we still have the best travelling International fans in the World. Everyone is happy when Scotland comes to town because you know there isn't going to be trouble and all your beer will be drank rather than thrown at other supporters!! England, on the other hand, is the rich and promised land, for British footballers. The UK, made of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland and England, has had to bow to the, admitedly far superior football, of England for about the last 15-20 years. England is different to Scotland and the other Celt countries (see above), where they are rarely bothered by religous interferance, they have a much higher population than the other countries and usually have at least 2 teams per city! This is where England has triumphed over the other countries, having two large teams per city, usually seperated by single figure miles from each other, you are brought up to support YOUR team, the team your dad supported, his dad supported and so on. There can be fierce rivalry within some of these 'darby matches' as we call them, bragging rights for work on Monday morning when you go back to work and get to poke fun at the 'otherside'. This, however, spilt over to serious violence and destruction during the late 70's and early 80s. Born from frustration of a very bad finacial climate, young men not being able to get jobs, or losing their jobs (see the coal and steel industries for perfect example) all this pent up anger and frustration had to have somewhere to go and almost inevitably, it exploded into the already fierce rivalries of football. 'Fans' (I use the word advisedly) would go on, usually drink fuled, rampage through the streets of what ever city they were playing in on that given saturday, fighting with other fans and passersby alike! These were mostly madeup of skinheads, punks and your average angry young man on the street, these were bad enough, but soon it would become almost a business! In the early to mid 80's, the success of English teams like Liverpool especially and the now almost easy access to other European countries by flight, meant that fans were now traveling to Europe for European cup ties, the best of the best from all the big European countries would clash, differing footballing styles making for some epic encounters! The English 'Hooligans' as they were now called, suddenly had access to other countries and inevitably, other fans! Some of the pictures coming back to the UK were horrific, fans wandering around dazed and covered in blood, shops and bars trashed and destroyed because, as the English found out to their glee, they weren't the only country to have 'hooligans'! On these travels abroad the fans had access to designer clothes, something only available at the time to the very rich and famous, but now they were available at much cheaper prices than at home and often for free as the violent rampages would often include grabbing as much as you could carry from the particular shop the melee was passing at tha time! These guys would come home to a triumphant return to their friends who could not afford to go abroad and of course looking 'the part' with the new found clothing they were sporting. 'Hooligans' they were no longer, now they were smart dressed, they were organised, they were 'Football Casuals'! This was the new lable given to them, the were no longer the raging punk or skinhead, the frustrated striking miner! They were now well dressed often in well paid jobs, but more importantly they were orginised and clever. Each big club had it's own 'firm', they all had their own names, Chelsea had the Headhunters, Westham with the ICF, Hibs with the CCS. All highly charged and highly organised gangs interested in only being the top firm! So there you go Lani, a short history of where a certain countries footballing passion went wrong with religion being allowed to be a part of the 'sport' and the other where the sports passion and family and club history and local pride turned to violence. Hope this helped. Sixx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 were you socialized at a young age to believe it is your communities "Honour" ?? I think you're right. It's a lot more tribal with a lot of pride, but at a 'it starts the day you're born' level (not necessarily a good thing). Partly because the set-up is more 'local' on one level (not vs teams miles away), and that it's global on another. You can fly to Peru or Cameroon, crack open a beer and talk footy if you're so inclined. From local disputes to the World Cup, folk find ways to get one over one another. And it happens to be the global currency in sporting terms. Good points are when the underdog comes out of nowhere to slay the giant. There are quite a few competitions where that's possible. The World Cup really is a gathering of the world - much more true spirit than the Olympics. Looking forward to South Africa!! Here's a famous moment....the Norwegian commentary from Norway beating England in 1981. "Maggie Thatcher your boys took a hell of a beating...." See if you think he's pleased.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki6 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Hahaaha, thats fantastic Cornerstone, all he needed was a Scottish accent!!! True point though, football really is the International currency! You could walk into a bar in pretty much any city in the world and , if they speak English or your own language of choice, buy a pint and end up talking to a man or woman from halfway across the world as if you had known each other for years, just on the subject of football! You wouldn't be able to do that with American 'football' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baglc1 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Footballers are a over paid bunch of diving, cheating, farieys, who sexually arrass the woman,because they think their gods gift, with their "who can have the ugliest hair cut cause i dontknow what to spend my money on this week". or shall i go and get pi$$ed and kill some people in my big flash car with no regret. The England Rugby Union side call it the Andrex league (A soft toilet roll) because of how soft they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki6 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Footballers are a over paid bunch of diving, cheating, farieys, who sexually arrass the woman,because they think their gods gift, with their "who can have the ugliest hair cut cause i dontknow what to spend my money on this week". or shall i go and get pi$$ed and kill some people in my big flash car with no regret. The England Rugby Union side call it the Andrex league (A soft toilet roll) because of how soft they are. Yeah cause they aren't all public school boys who stick their heads up each others backsides disguised as a scrum?!? or pretend they are big time gangsters and can get loads of coke for you anytime they want too? Great role model for a kid! Shut up you egg chasin fool! Sixx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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