donerix Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) I am no snob and I have made good money and then lived from the change left in the ashtray of my car in a house with no electricity. So I have experienced the ups and downs of life. But why complain about companies like Rolex and Porsche, Panerai and Ferrari, Breitling and Versace - just to name a few. Forget all about advertising budgets, executive salaries and cost-value ratio - they are here to make money and if the consumer wants to pay the prize then it is his call; nobody has ever been seen in a Prada boutique forced to buy that new bag with a gun to his head. Don't forget: without all those companies and their customers who are willing to buy the "real thing" this forum wouldn't even exist, because there would be nothing to replicate. I have always been very grateful to have the opportunity to see all these beautiful things even if I could probably never afford them, but now I can - at a fraction of the prize. Ok, they are a bit off here and there, but if I still like what they look like I can have a dozen. instead of saving all year long for just one piece of beauty and if I want it to be more accurate I can try my skills at modding them to my liking and budget. Thanks a million to all of you who create these aesthetically pleasing items of our desire. And to all you, who like to complain: Zip up and smell the flowers.... Edited May 1, 2009 by donerix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 I like to complain though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donerix Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Just expressing my views. Last time I checked this was still OK. You are obviously welcome to keep on complaining (so you feel better). But I hope you agree: NO GEN >>> NO REP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterOfPuppets Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 LMAO! @donerix: i think most of us if not all, are on this forum and buying reps because we simply can't afford to own the same collection we have in gens if i had an extra couple of thousnad, i would buy a gen, because i love watches! but pricing a watch at +$10k? thats just stupid sure that manufacturers bear alot of costs: adverstising, higher costs of manufacturing, costs of outlets and franchising...etc but if u break it down, the cost per unit would be a fraction of the market price being sold at u mentioned Porsches, the cost of a carrera including what i mentioned above would never go over $30k, so yes: I DO COMPLAIN! but what is my complaint and a million others gona do? these "brand names" have their own markets, and their own customers we're just a different segment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Why so serious? it's just watches, not life or death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 I'd take you a little more seriously if you knew the difference between "prices" and "prizes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) Agreed. Can the mods run an IP check against other members? Could this be another "daunwaun"?... http://www.rwg.cc/members/Replica-s-Fakes-...tml&hl=juan Sounds like another womb weevil; time for RWG to squeeze the ol' internet douche... Edited May 1, 2009 by gioarmani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donerix Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Sorry had to do some cooking (running a restaurant sometimes does interfere with my forum activity). Apologize for the spelling mistake (after all English is not my native language, see how you write in German, Spanish, French or Italian - Shlundi) But I respect you even if you don't.... I wasn't really trying to be too serious, it's just that I don't understand the complaining (of course if it's just to complain it's allright, even if not exactly productive), nor was I complaining, rather trying to help to look at the rep world on the bright side. As for the $30,000 Porsche: Either you have never driven a German car, or you would understand that this kind of craftsmanship, detail and functionality cannot be done for the pric(z)e of a Chrysler Town & Country. gioarmani: why do feel threatened when somebody just expresses his opinion. Apart from that I have not even criticized the rep world, on the contrary. But it seems nobody gets my point: If the Breitlings and Rolexes of this world wouldn't have made all those beautiful watches, we all would not be able to desire them - as we do. So chill people...I am just here to have fun and spend some hard earned money, not to offend anybody... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Just had to tell everyone how you were "running a restaurant" on a watch forum, huh?... This has to be the same schmuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 I am no snob and I have made good money and then lived from the change left in the ashtray of my car in a house with no electricity. So I have experienced the ups and downs of life. But why complain about companies like Rolex and Porsche, Panerai and Ferrari, Breitling and Versace - just to name a few. Forget all about advertising budgets, executive salaries and cost-value ratio - they are here to make money and if the consumer wants to pay the prize then it is his call; nobody has ever been seen in a Prada boutique forced to buy that new bag with a gun to his head. Don't forget: without all those companies and their customers who are willing to buy the "real thing" this forum wouldn't even exist, because there would be nothing to replicate. I have always been very grateful to have the opportunity to see all these beautiful things even if I could probably never afford them, but now I can - at a fraction of the prize. Ok, they are a bit off here and there, but if I still like what they look like I can have a dozen. instead of saving all year long for just one piece of beauty and if I want it to be more accurate I can try my skills at modding them to my liking and budget. Thanks a million to all of you who create these aesthetically pleasing items of our desire. And to all you, who like to complain: Zip up and smell the flowers.... Where to begin... The fact that corporate entities exist to make money justifies their overpricing? Personally, I think not. I have always been of the opinion "It costs what it costs" when it comes to price tags, and have no problem with something costing a high price if said product is actually worth said ticket price. If it is not actually worth that price, then it is a rip off, and, while people are still entitled to buy such things if they want, such consumerism, and the jealousy it can create is one of the pitfalls of today's Western Society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donerix Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Just had to tell everyone how you were "running a restaurant" on a watch forum, huh?... This has to be the same schmuck. You should come by - you might like it. And the schmuck will buy you a drink and smoke the peace pipe with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 I am not sure what inspired donerix to begin his original post the way he did, but I am glad he is on our side. Apparently, Thinkbachs got it right. We have a in our midst. Nice knowing you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Looks like a nice place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donerix Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thanks TeeJay. I really didn't want to offend anyone. But we do live in a world with free markets and everybody can charge for his goods what he feels like,it then is up to the customer to make his choice. You don't like the $9K Deepsea - OK - buy something different or be smart and get a rep... Glad this mellowed out a bit, wasn't expecting that kind of aggressive feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thanks TeeJay. I really didn't want to offend anyone. But we do live in a world with free markets and everybody can charge for his goods what he feels like,it then is up to the customer to make his choice. You don't like the $9K Deepsea - OK - buy something different or be smart and get a rep... Glad this mellowed out a bit, wasn't expecting that kind of aggressive feedback. No problem, I know that tone can sometimes be misinterpreted from writing. You're quite right about free markets, but that's a real over-simplification of the economics, especially when the actual sources of such goods is considered. I've seen plenty of people (previously) slam companies for using what they call 'sweatshop labor', yet, in the same breath, those same people will happily endorse what they call 'fair-trade' goods, without considering the economic climates where those goods are coming from. To them, $5 a day could be considered a good wage, especially if bread is only a few cents. My view of prestige goods, is that in many cases, the 'prestige goods' are coming from the same sources as the 'knockoffs' or 'lesser quality' goods, when the truth is often, that the only difference between them, is the label sewn in, and the distributors. As I said in the other thread, I view reps as 'fair trade' watches, compared to the AD outlets, which I personally consider a rip-off, considering the nature of the goods, which is why I don't feel that the companies themselves, are entirely blameless. They're the ones creating the image, and yes, in theory, people are free to buy into that lifestyle or not, but, as mentioned, peer-pressure, jealousy, and the desire to 'fit in', are very powerful motivating factors which can drive people to buy into that lifestyle. As you say, no one's having a gun put to their head. That's because it's more subtle than that. It's that unspoken peer-pressure which is the 'loaded gun', and that peer-pressure, is created primarily by the companies themselves, and makes people feel that they have to fit in... Reps provide an acceptable alternative, as they provide, to a somewhat varying degree, the look, function and feel of the 'real thing', but at a reasonable cost (and still higher than what they're costing to produce) People collect reps for many different reasons, from those who simply appreciate watches, lack the funds to purchase the 'real thing', so find reps a budget alternative, to those who want to try and pass their reps off as gens (and deserving of everything that comes to them ) and everything in between. The DSSD is a prime case. Incredibly popular watch lately, but, in all honesty, not really worth the gen purchase price. Not even truly functional, given that the watch can withstand pressures which would kill the diver wearing it, so no need for it to be 'that' water resistant I think the only thing which the DSSD has going for it, is the glide-lock clasp, as that's the only truly innovative aspect of the watch. Ceramic bezel... GMT II C has that... HE Valve... Any Sea-Dweller has that... Maxi Dial... LV Sub, GMT II, Yacht-Master... They've got it I think the DSSD is a fine example of a company creating a product purely for profit. Another example, would be the Quantum of Solace Limited Edition Planet Ocean... The very fact that it was the 42mm variant which appeared in QoS, makes the 45mm variant a pretty stupid choice for the LE. But, the folks at Omega know that there are collectors out there who will buy it simply because 'it exists', not because of any actual merits it might have as a watch. I wouldn't buy the QoS Planet Ocean, because I don't like 'merchandise' watches, and, because I don't like the dial surface. Likewise, I wouldn't buy the DSSD, because despite the larger case size, there is no change in dial size, which would be the only thing I would consider a practical improvement, by improving the visibility, so I'd just as soon buy a GMT II c, which would be easier to wear, and have a greater range of functions (and while it is a really nice watch, even then, it's not one I would consider deserving of it's AD Retail price) As the Red Parrot says "Class Struggle!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donerix Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 TeeJay: Now, that's what I call a worthy reply... even if do not agree to all of it. I live in a Third World country where the big part of the population makes between $6-7.50/day. They always have (even less before), but life here also is a lot cheaper. I don't feel like I am running a sweatshop because I pay the going rate to my employees and they seem happy to work with me. I see the main difference in selling the brand name, because even if some of the brand name watches are built under those conditions, so are our beloved reps! As for the Deepsea: I agree totally with you, but have to say that I do enjoy wearing my rep - I just think it's a good looking watch and since mine probably wouldn't survive a slight drizzle I can live with the over-engineered gen. And yes I do wish it would sell for $2,000, because after holding the gen once in my hands I did feel the "magic difference". Cheers E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBreitling Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 After reading this thread, it is clear that this is a touchy subject for some. Perhaps a reflection of the divide between haves and have nots. A point not made clearly, at least to my reading, is the so called value of design or intellectual property. This is part of the reason for a premium for any product, and well, look at what is has done for Bill Gates. I bet the China factories make more Pannies in a year, that OP has made since its first watch. Yet, look at the innovation at OP in inventing lume technologies, TWICE! The marketplace determines the value of this innovation, and since early times, there have been copiers, eager to benefit from the creations of others, at a more attractive price point. So, let's lighten up a little. We are blessed with the opportunity to hold, modify and display beautiful and creative timepieces. They may not be originals, but they are ours to own and enjoy. There was a time, when rep watches were emerging from Asia in the 80's, when the quality was so poor it was a waste. We live in different and interesting times today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 ...But why complain about companies like Rolex and Porsche, Panerai and Ferrari, Breitling and Versace - just to name a few. I don't get it. Who the hell is doing the complaining? PS: FYI, lots of members here are also members of gen forums, drive 100+k cars, etc. The reps are merely a hobby for many of us here. PPS: Nothing beats a gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 TeeJay: Now, that's what I call a worthy reply... even if do not agree to all of it. I live in a Third World country where the big part of the population makes between $6-7.50/day. They always have (even less before), but life here also is a lot cheaper. I don't feel like I am running a sweatshop because I pay the going rate to my employees and they seem happy to work with me. That was entirely the point I was trying to illustrate. To many in the US, UK or Europe, such wages would be impossible for people to survive on. In different economic climates, however, it is the local equivalent of a good wage, and that is something which I have found many 'bleeding heart liberals' quick to forget (or ignore) when they blast 'sweatshop wages', without taking into account that, from the worker's point of view, said wages are perfectly acceptable when viewed against the cost of living in the manufacturer's region, rather than the cost of living in the buyer's region I see the main difference in selling the brand name, because even if some of the brand name watches are built under those conditions, so are our beloved reps! Precisely. The only difference being, that there is not such huge profit margin for the rep manufacturers, as there is for the 'gen manufacturers' (well, there probably is a lot of profit, but I suspect that comes from greater volume of sales, rather than the markup on individual items... ) which is why I view the reps as 'fair-trade', rather than 'sweatshop' As for the Deepsea: I agree totally with you, but have to say that I do enjoy wearing my rep - I just think it's a good looking watch and since mine probably wouldn't survive a slight drizzle I can live with the over-engineered gen. And yes I do wish it would sell for $2,000, because after holding the gen once in my hands I did feel the "magic difference". Cheers E. Oh I know what you mean, and I wasn't meaning to put the DSSD down as a bad watch, I was just trying to illustrate that it is a good example of 'product image' over any true 'practical applications'. My criteria for what I need in a watch, is a large, clear dial, visible in all lighting condition. A Submariner-sized watch is just about acceptable in that regard, but, could be better (such as the 45mm Planet Ocean). The DSSD, despite having a larger case, does not have a larger dial, so from my perspective, no improvement in terms of dial visibility, over what is already available with the Maxi Dial But, because it's new, that means it must be better, or so the Power of Marketing tells us After reading this thread, it is clear that this is a touchy subject for some. Perhaps a reflection of the divide between haves and have nots. A point not made clearly, at least to my reading, is the so called value of design or intellectual property. This is part of the reason for a premium for any product, and well, look at what is has done for Bill Gates. I bet the China factories make more Pannies in a year, that OP has made since its first watch. Yet, look at the innovation at OP in inventing lume technologies, TWICE! The marketplace determines the value of this innovation, and since early times, there have been copiers, eager to benefit from the creations of others, at a more attractive price point. So, let's lighten up a little. We are blessed with the opportunity to hold, modify and display beautiful and creative timepieces. They may not be originals, but they are ours to own and enjoy. There was a time, when rep watches were emerging from Asia in the 80's, when the quality was so poor it was a waste. We live in different and interesting times today. Couldn't've said it better myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donerix Posted May 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Case closed I guess. E. PS: TeeJay shouldn't you like the Breitling SOH 46? Great visibility, timeless design... I love mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 An interesting opinion. What concerns me is not the content but the call by some members to ban the thread or member. WHY? Now, I'm new so I might have missed a forum rule that was violated. Just because a few members disagree with another's thoughts and views they call for a ban. I understand people are very passionate about horology, reps, and RWG. To call for a ban because one disagrees with opinions of others is ludacris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Sorry had to do some cooking (running a restaurant sometimes does interfere with my forum activity). Apologize for the spelling mistake (after all English is not my native language, see how you write in German, Spanish, French or Italian - Shlundi) But I respect you even if you don't.... I wasn't really trying to be too serious, it's just that I don't understand the complaining (of course if it's just to complain it's allright, even if not exactly productive), nor was I complaining, rather trying to help to look at the rep world on the bright side. As for the $30,000 Porsche: Either you have never driven a German car, or you would understand that this kind of craftsmanship, detail and functionality cannot be done for the pric(z)e of a Chrysler Town & Country. gioarmani: why do feel threatened when somebody just expresses his opinion. Apart from that I have not even criticized the rep world, on the contrary. But it seems nobody gets my point: If the Breitlings and Rolexes of this world wouldn't have made all those beautiful watches, we all would not be able to desire them - as we do. So chill people...I am just here to have fun and spend some hard earned money, not to offend anybody... You have no idea what other languages I speak/write/understand nor is it any of your business All I'm asking is that if you're going to troll, try to (at least) get the sub-heading correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Sheesh.. and I thought RWG was getting soft.. been a long time (1 week at least) since we had a lively debate.. but did I miss the whole of April??? I really don't remember an ongoing diatribe of members flaming the Genuine Brands I really don't recall this being an issue here ... I don't believe anyone that cannot afford nor believes that genuines are worth the money opening threads about them in this context..?? I think we covet Genuine brands.. otherwise why would we have such a passion for reps.. sounds like another misunderstanding... on maybe a topic that meant a totally different issue.. face the facts.. anything made of SS that is over 300 usd is not a watch.,... it's a jewelry accessory ... I hope that dosen't start another brawl.. so on we go.... what is next up on the "Hit Parade?" A~C L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Case closed I guess. E. PS: TeeJay shouldn't you like the Breitling SOH 46? Great visibility, timeless design... I love mine. You're quite right, I am rather keen on the Super Ocean Heritage In fact, I'm part way through a project to build something of that overall appearance, using Rolex branded components Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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