Iranian Election Fall Out

[Demsey]

Well, here's a golden opportunity that will be most likely given a pass by the U.S. State Department.

Well and above the student riots of '99 this show has the impetus to gain momentum and really make a difference to a nation largely shat on by non-secular governement since it's revolution. What will the U.S., NATO and the United Nations do? Leave them hanging like the kids of Tiananmen Square.

Deplorable. There will be state thug violence, widespread disregard for the most base human rights, heads rolling, university professors disappearing, cell doors slamming, smug pseudo-Islamic rehtoric spoken from the sides of mullahs' mouths and worse; Western catering to it all, which is inasmuch a nod to go ahead with the status quo.

The U.S. will more than likely send a fruit basket and a congratulatory wire to Ahminthemhudforajihad regarding his tenure, with a post script plea for the end of violence. Which, undoubtedly, will be met with a visit from that hunk of junk to New York City's UN Plaza ( Mark David Chapman, where are you now?) and with a twinkle in his eye agree to consider, in exchange for some yellow cake and a few aluminum cylinders. He surely won't get it, but he won't get what he deserves either; a Nimitz Class carrier steaming up the Strait of Hormuz emblazened in green banners. A subtle acknowledgement; Mousavi, We Are Coming!.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said she hoped the outcome reflects the "genuine will and desire" of Iranian voters. What a dim bulb. Madam Secretary, there are bloodied faces in Tehran because it already hasn't. Read a news paper. Lawyers. Jeeeeezus. Our core U.S. administration are lawyers now. Why are there so many lawyer jokes? Right, right. The U.S. is entering it's most weak era, with regard to foreign policy, since Roosevelt refused to enter WWII because he put an isolationist agenda above world concerns. That worked out just great for all involved. Ironic. This adminstration is enjoying the best world approval rating since JFK, that other guy who almost kicked off WWIII, because it regards President Obama as a "World Man". Ich bin ein Berliner? Maybe the German membership can confirm; that statement, grammatically speaking, translates; "I am a jelly donut". Look it up.

[KB]

Well I happen to know theres submarine trails going on this very minute in preparation for active duty in the gulf (see shortest thread), I'll split the difference with you Dems and call them '08s

Ken

[Pugwash]

Ah, Team America, World Police.

Yes, of course you have to go and fix this with your military might, unlike all of the other international incidents that had nothing to do with you that you left rightly alone.

You called for democratic elections like yours and they copied yours right down to the Florida method.

Politics. Best leave them alone.

[HauteHippie]

Let's send Jimmah Cartah to Iran. He will get everything sorted out.

[Shundi]

Let's send Jimmah Cartah to Iran. He will get everything sorted out.

[chronoluvvv]

Ah, Team America, World Police.

Yes, of course you have to go and fix this with your military might, unlike all of the other international incidents that had nothing to do with you that you left rightly alone.

You called for democratic elections like yours and they copied yours right down to the Florida method.

Politics. Best leave them alone.

yea Puggy we should have left your countrymen alone in the 40s too

[Bansenshukai]

Ah, Team America, World Police.

Yes, of course you have to go and fix this with your military might, unlike all of the other international incidents that had nothing to do with you that you left rightly alone.

You called for democratic elections like yours and they copied yours right down to the Florida method.

Politics. Best leave them alone.

I already see this thread is not heading anywhere good. Besides, no matter the ramblings on this thread, it will not change a thing in the real world. How about treating others with respect and approaching these difficult subjects with a touch of civility without having to resort to blanket statements about an entire nation. Is it too much to ask?

[Pugwash]

yea Puggy we should have left your countrymen alone in the 40s too

I wasn't aware Iran was an ally.

[chronoluvvv]

I wasn't aware Iran was an ally.

not after the so-called "Revolution" anyway

as well as the Iranis are doing, i'm sure they'll fare a whole lot better when not under the Khomeini

[ChipSlap]

The U.S. is entering it's most weak era, with regard to foreign policy, since Roosevelt refused to enter WWII because he put an isolationist agenda above world concerns. That worked out just great for all involved.

Roosevelt wanted to do more to help the British, but the Lindbergh isolationists wouldn't let him until we actually got bombed.

[Demsey]

Well I happen to know theres submarine trails going on this very minute in preparation for active duty in the gulf (see shortest thread), I'll split the difference with you Dems and call them '08s

Ken

Stage direction: cue 'Phoband' on the crash cymbal tom-tom roll...............

Anyhoo, I just get a burr when I see footage of true, honest to God, bravery in the face of repression. Which has mostly made up my media week-end. 'Mericans are suckers for that stuff. As I alluded; Tiananmen and then they buy up our T-Bills. WTF? "Iran" is one of those countries whose people are defined by the actions of it's repressive government. Not fair. They have satellite dishes in northern Tehran. Some Iranians get to watch Rugby. That is if they don't share and stir the puddin' of the apolitical clay of the non-secular power core. Hell, even Netanyahu acknowledged as much in the nineties before Congress; "We needn't drop bombs on Iran to get what we want. We need to drop television sets that receive two dedicated channels via satellite; Beverly Hills 90210 and CNN. Shortly, the people of Iran will know what to do." I think is telling.

As far as my Right Wing diatribe, [sic] "send an aricraft carrier..........", is pinged by Chief's allusion to Carter (and I'm talking off the cuff from being 20 years old in 1981, no Google or factcheck.org so bear with me), uh, the Iranian hostage crisis? Anyone who's not younger than 40 wanna wade in on 444 days? What was the deal there? Ohhhhhh, yeah, comes to mind #39 didn't want to leave office with that debacle on his legacy, not to mention a few helo's strewn across the desert and half dozen killed, more wounded, in a poorly ill-thought rescue attempt (don't blame him) so he kowtow-ed and made concessions to unfreeze billions of Iranian assets, legal impunity and further immunity from American intervention in all future Iranian affairs of state? Ho! Ho! Cut to inauguration day Jan 20. the hostages are on the aircraft, Reagan is hours away from being sworn, and the plane is at Alpha. The ayatollah wants more concession or the aircraft comes back to the gate. Reagan (paraphrased): " Those [censored]-heels! (that term not paraphrased) I'm going to take a nap before the inaugeration. When I rise that plane had better be in the air out of Iranian airspace or I'm going to send an aircraft carrier". The plane took off, the original assets were never unfrozen. Go to hell. Is what they respect. Is what they understand. Is all. So. Let my people go.

Notwithstanding the above, I would prefer a Regiment or two of SAS Para involved surely, and not in the least the Israeli Air Force, but being an American, I can only suggest the mere presence of a Nimitz class, or for Auld Lang Syne, how about the Nimitz herself? There's a history there.

See what PresBO has to say on Monday. It will sound good surely. This truely; art imitates life, life imitates the art:

Why don't you ask the kids at Tiananmen square?

Was fashion the reason why they were there?

They disguise it, Hypnotize it.

Television made you buy it.

I'm just sitting

In my car and

Waiting for my...

She's scared that I will take her away from there.

Dreams and her country, left with no-one there.

Mezmerized the simple minded

Propaganda leaves us blinded.

I'm just sitting

In my car and

Waiting for my girl.

I'm just sitting

In my car and

Waiting for my girl.

I'm just sitting

In my car and

Waiting for my girl.

I'm just sitting

In my car and

Waiting for my girl...

<edit>

the Lindbergh isolationists

Hmmmm, that term is news to me, but am aware of Lindberg's affinity and appreciation to the pre-war Nazi's. I'm going to eagerly research this 'ChipSlap'. Cheers!

...........and they said nothing good was going to come of a political thread!

[fakemaster]

I don't think we should do anything until Rush says to.

[Pugwash]

I don't think we should do anything until Rush says to.

I also base my foreign policy on By-Tor's favourite band's opinion. Although what if Yes reform and tell you to invade Korea?

[fakemaster]

Spunds like a plan.

[Demsey]

I don't think we should do anything until Rush says to.

I also base my foreign policy on By-Tor's favourite band's opinion.

Although what if Yes reform and tell you to invade Korea?

Depends, with or without Wakeman? With or without Bruford? It does matter. You know.

"You don't go to war with the band line-up you want. You go to war with the band line-up you got."

Donald Rumsfeld

[cornerstone]

The fear has to be that developments in Iran will cast a long, dark shadow over the entire 2009 Kerrang Awards proceedings

[ryyannon]

For those with sufficiant technological savvy, here's where to create a proxy for use by the Iranians who are having their access to electronic communications media systematically blocked or monitored by the powers currently in place:

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/06/15/web...as-for-proxies/

[Corgi]

It was thanks to an iranian man - obsessed with power - that I lost my job a few months ago. I would love to give you my opinions on what I would like to see happen to this country but I think it might offend a few sensitive people (liberals) so I won't give in to temptation and give you a generic answer:

"Corgi hopes that the Iranian people can overcome all of their nation's challenges peacefully."

[stolikat]

The US in no way will take any type of military action in this case. It looks as if Iran is bringing itself to freedom and liberty. The best way to do it!!

[Demsey]

The US in no way will take any type of military action in this case.

The presence of an US aircraft carrier, in the modern era naval role, is not necessarily an act of military aggression, or even 'military' at all. 'Frinstance when the USS Abraham Lincoln steamed off for the coast of Sumatra in the wake of the tsunami. Each day for more than a month, the carrier

[r3Lic]

Starting to snoop around in Iran's business after a "legitimate" governmental election will erode any and all good will the Muslim world had started to conger up after the Obama speech. I don't see how trying to mettle in the business of Iran will solve any middle eastern issues, if not create more of them. You wouldn't want the European Union to start trying to influence elections such as the 2000 election between Gore and Bush in which there was such a controversy. I'm no bleeding heart liberal by any means, but improving the United States image in the Muslim world is a critical step in national security, one that the current administration finally understands.

The notion that you can bomb and invade your problems away is one of the most short sided notions I've ever run across in my life. Taking on the role of world police is not a role the United States can afford to assume any longer, we've got too many domestic problems, both economically and security wise that we cannot spare any unnecessary resources or personnel for a problem that is not our own. If there were obvious injustices within the election, which we all know more than likely there were, let the UN handle it, that is, in all actuality, what they were created for. Military presence in any Muslim country by an "infidel" is seen as a direct military action against the nation of Islam, i can only imagine what sending an aircraft carrier into Iranian waters would spur up, oh wait, more ultra nationalism which allows people like Ahmadinejad to continue to be elected.

Let diplomacy have a chance, we've had 8 years of nothing but closed ears and loaded rifles, i think its time to try another approach.

[Demsey]

Well done.

Finally, after five years, a person who knows the useful term 'debate'; an intellectual counter point held against a premise, put forth as a proposition to lead a discussion in directions not yet considered. Qualified, above all else, by being devoid of any real personal conviction; i.e. feelings.

I would like to counter, but time constraints now prohibit. In the economic down turn I have resorted to another past vocation; 'ranch hand'. The work is honest, but devoid any intellectual exchange. Today I will carry this thread, and compose a retort.

Thank you.

Dems

[ChipSlap]

r3lic is right. There's not too much for us to do here except condemn the violence and not be too heavy-handed. Nothing would screw up this situation and hand things to the pro-Ahmadinajads on a silver platter as badly as overt intervention by the west. If we were seen as trying to manipulate their internal politics, the hard-liners would immediately gain the upper hand. Iran still remembers how we overthrew their first democratically-elected leader in 1953 and gave them a quarter century of royal dictatorship and foreign-owned resource extraction. I compare this situation to a souffle'...best to just leave the oven closed and not make any loud noises. I'm glad Obama is smart enough to realize this also.

[Pugwash]

Surely Ahminthemhudforajihad would declare it an act of war, but, uh, no matter? HE'S A CERTIFIABLE RETARD! It only sounds drastic, actionary, costly to tax payers and of course, would [censored] off Puggy, but it beats waiting for a nuke to sail into Tel Aviv screwing up Obama's chance of a second term. Then, the carriers would go, but converting salt water to fresh would be priority none. Meh, it makes more sense in the name of democracy than arming the Contras. Or freeing Iraq for that matter.

[censored] me off? I believe we should have gone into Iran instead or Iraq. You've read me wrongly.

[Demsey]

I would acknowledge a call for isolationism in the current economic as a valid, if not, an arguably incorrect point of tact; a political philosophy. But, let's not lose sight of the 'thing' and with whom we are dealing in a bigger, broader, vision to the not to distant future. Let us not be myopic here. Spend three minutes of the half hour it would take to absorb this background and reflect, again, upon the notion of 'diplomacy' ESPECIALLY with regard to the United Nations' sanctions to date. Keeping in mind, Ahmadinejad is merely the face of the men behind the curtain. He is the face of true 'evil' and it's embodiment (please refer the Wiki) but his strings are pulled by the epitome of it. That is what the people of Iran are bracing against. Not hanging chads and the twinkling eye of the rich oil guy's son with far reaching political nepotism. Honestly. Diplomacy has it's place; it buys time for those bent on their own destructive ends, and gives moral license to the righteous to execute the unavoidable. If mere diplomacy were a means to an end, Palestine and Israel would have been reconciled in 1950 and Ahmadinejad would acknowledge the holocaust. Not. Going to happen.

"legitimate"

I'm assuming you are using this term tongue in cheek ? Yes? As, *ahem* "legitimate" *ahem* ? Because it certainly wasn't. Legitimate. Is what the demonstrations are all about. Not my opinion, certainly not that only of the opposition party, but by the throngs. Pundits and analysts who draw a wage proffering their bent and I merely agree. Although he himself is doing an air dance to maintain diplomatic neutrality for reasons beyond me, and you, us, President Obama knows the genie is coming uncorked. I think he's merely affraid of a fourth front militarily. I'm willing to give him the benfit of that doubt ( doing that a lot these short six months, but the guy is just too cool!) but, to draw a parallel of this abberation of a democratic vote in Iran to that of the US 2000 election is a lark at best. I doubt Mousavi will enjoy the freedoms granted by the US Constitution to assemble legal council to the extent of Al Gore to hand down injunctions, writs and indictments to air his case in front of the joint session of Congress that demured to the Supreme Court's ruling. Mousavi wishes. He will be lucky to keep his testicles from the battery cables. Figuratively speaking of course, as the world eye's are on him, God keep him if they were not. But, for the sake of points raised, and for the panotmime; I live in Floriduh. If I had supported Al Gore, which I certainly did not, and ventured down to Palm Beach County to air my political protest, was met with a dead iTouch, inert lap top, a kick in the face, and seven dead in Deerfield Beach? I would gladly rejoice in the intervention of France or see the HMS Prince of Wales smoking on the horizon. Make no mistake.

Speaking of Britain and France, what a glorious proud day to be a Frenchman or to be British. Considering President Sarkozy's and Prime Minister Brown's take, voice, and outrage to the current state of affairs in Tehran, they sound downright errr, democratic!

"The extent of the fraud is proportional to the violent reaction," said the French leader.

"It is a tragedy, but it is not negative to have a real opinion movement that tries to break its chains," Sarkozy said.

"If Ahmadinejad has really made progress since the last election and if he really represents two thirds of the electorate... why has this violence erupted?"

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said questions about the validity of the outcome needed to be answered and that the violent scenes threatened Iran's international standing.

"The regime must address the serious questions which have been asked about the conduct of the Iranian elections," said Brown.

"The way the regime responds to legitimate protests will have implications for Iran's relationships with the rest of the world in the future."

President Obama's reaction and official US position? An aside, forced by the media in the eleventh hour of a conference in the Rose Garden; hosting a visit from the South Korean President Lee Myung-bak with reagrd to North Korean nuclear proliferation today; (paraphrased) "Hey, it's really none of our biz, Iran and it's elections. We never really got along, politically. I'm really not up". Whoa. WTF? Since when is liberty and freedom out of the US domain? Well, France did write the book and build the statue that stands in New York Harbour afterall. Maybe we should give it back to the rightful owners?

OK maybe the USS Nimitz is a little overboard. Just maybe. But would it have been too much a stretch for PresBO to throw in a W. 'ism with his own spin?

( *takes license*) "Wherever tyranny manifestifizes itself and compromises civil liberty and it's freedoms, American eyes are watching. And waiting. Your own true God will triumph the evildoers."

Can't imagine a Muslim taking offense to that. Offending true Muslims is not a risk for the benevolent. Less so with the radical element. Benevolence compromises their power and grip. Keeping grace with Islam by catering to that element is not Barack Obama's keep. It's not up to him. It's up to them. And the benevolent. See what happens.