It's not only reps that lack QC

[TeeJay]

As far as I know the watch was never serviced.

It is new and suffered water damage. It was taken into the Breitling dealer who accused the owner of leaving the crown unscrewed, they opened it up, wanted $1000-2000 for repair and the owner elected to sell it.

From what I could see and tell during disassembly, it was never worked on until I took it apart.

I too find it incredible, but after witnessing Nanuq's terrible Rolex AD service, I am not surprised, after all, who's going to know?? Certainly not the original owner...

The plot thickens... Someone leaving a crown unscrewed, and resulting in water damage, I can quite believe happening by accident, but, regardless of how the water got in the case, the fact remains that the movement was dry... Maybe they used the accusation about the crown to try and cover their own faults with the movement...

[Chronus]

The plot thickens... Someone leaving a crown unscrewed, and resulting in water damage, I can quite believe happening by accident, but, regardless of how the water got in the case, the fact remains that the movement was dry... Maybe they used the accusation about the crown to try and cover their own faults with the movement...

Well, seeing as it's a chrono movement, and the watch is from a discontinued line, they are probably asking more in any case. If there's water damage they can use that to blame anything, no one but a skilled watch repairer would know any better. Most people probably don't even know that a movement is oiled, or that movements aren't dry to begin with.

Didn't someone (like Kruzer?) have a genuine AP which had water damage due to poor QC and he got hit with thousands in repair bills?

Good news from this story is The Zigmeister managed to fix the watch

[TeeJay]

Well, seeing as it's a chrono movement, and the watch is from a discontinued line, they are probably asking more in any case. If there's water damage they can use that to blame anything, no one but a skilled watch repairer would know any better. Most people probably don't even know that a movement is oiled, or that movements aren't dry to begin with.

Precisely. I think ADs (and the companies who build the watches) rely on the potential buyers not knowing anything about the workings of their watches, and accepting such charges with blissful ignorance Before I got into reps, I didn't know anything about the workings of watches (and to be honest, I still know very little) the only thing I did know, was that one time, I decided to put the cost of getting a watch pressure tested after a battery replacement towards buying a new watch instead

Didn't someone (like Kruzer?) have a genuine AP which had water damage due to poor QC and he got hit with thousands in repair bills?

I'm really not sure... I don't think I've read that one, I'd certainly find it interesting to read

Good news from this story is The Zigmeister managed to fix the watch

Absolutely

[triplehd]

Thanks Zig.

Reason why i ask is that i had a mark on an old UPO dial. When trying to tab it out with some water (I did use a QTip), it actually took some of the paint off.

[TK471]

What a great gift that you're so capable of fixing it. Inexplicable condition on that watch, however.

[andreww]

Hmmm, not really false advertising is it. Zig has made us all aware that our A7750s come dry as well, and I have a couple of those that are approaching five years of service. So, maybe they realize that a dry movement will in all likelihood last through the warranty period, but will begin to have issues shortly after. At the prices that Breitling charges for service, thats a nice little revenue stream.

[anotherfish]

I've got an A7750 watch on it's way at the momment. Is it possible for an amature to oil their own?

Are there instructions on this forum on how to do it?

Edited June 23, 2009 by anotherfish

[ubiquitous]

I've got an A7750 watch on it's way at the momment. Is it possible for an amature to oil their own?

Are there instructions on this forum on how to do it?

Have you ever disassembled and overhauled a movement before?

If not... This is not an easy task...

[RWG Technical]

I've got an A7750 watch on it's way at the momment. Is it possible for an amature to oil their own?

Are there instructions on this forum on how to do it?

The short answer is no. Oiling a movement requires not only specialize skills and lots of specialized and expensive tooling, it also requires complete teardown of the movement, cleaning, drying, and re-assembling, testing, etc...

You need a lot of experience and practice to be able to tear down a movement and perform a full service.

Anyone who offers to do oiling without a full teardown is nothing more than a scammer (some modders do offer this type of service).

Here is an example of what level of teardown you need to be able to service a movement

[Nanuq]

Mmmmmmmm, microstella balance and engraving... who's the proud papa?

[RWG Technical]

Mmmmmmmm, microstella balance and engraving... who's the proud papa?

Rather not say, although it looks nice, all is not well.

Lets simply say that this is another of Phong's disaster movements, it has yet to be fixed or resolved.

Today's advice: Stay away, far far away, from Phong and his watches...

[TeeJay]

Hmmm, not really false advertising is it. Zig has made us all aware that our A7750s come dry as well, and I have a couple of those that are approaching five years of service. So, maybe they realize that a dry movement will in all likelihood last through the warranty period, but will begin to have issues shortly after. At the prices that Breitling charges for service, thats a nice little revenue stream.

No, not really false advertising per se, but still a bit of an unfair business practice to be on the receiving end of. Sure, great way of maintaining the revenue stream, so from a business point of view, great idea, but from the customer's point of view, a tad unfair, if the movement was to fail so soon after manufacture. Sure, the movements in rep A7750s might be coming dry, but they're coming from Chinese 'factories', not a Swiss clean room... We tolerate such things in reps, precisely because they are reps, it simply shouldn't be so with any gen product, certainly not all the time gen manufacturers are claiming such high standards of craftsmanship in their builds... If gen manufacturers are sending out movements in the same condition as rep movements, I really can't see any benefit of a gen purchase over a rep purchase, other than the prestige of buying the branded product with a warranty (which might still cost for work anyway) and any pleasantries the AD might throw in like chit chat and a cappuccino Like Lani's post where he mentioned driving a truck off the forecourt with no fluid in the power steering... Sure, mistakes can be made, but, if they're deliberately made to make the customer put their hand back in their pocket, then, yes, good business sense, but poor business practice/customer loyalty IMHO...

[andreww]

I agree with you Teej, but the simple fact of it is that their are plenty of companies out there that do these kinds of things. Apple will only sell you a phone with a three year contract, yet I highly doubt that the battery will last three years. Oh, too bad you can't replace it without sending it to apple service either.

If the lack of oil is something that is happening regularly in breits, its probably just a business decision to bolster profits in the future. Who's going to know? We all know watches need servicing every 5 years or so.

The part that makes me believe that this is some kind of fluke is that Breitling's reputation would be in serious jeopardy if this news was ever discovered by the masses. Not everybody will use AD servicing, so it would only be a matter of time before it was discovered.

If I was the owner of this particular watch, I would definitely send a terse letter to Breitling, and complain both about the water resistance and the oil.

BTW, when the owners AD suggested that he had left the crown unscrewed while swimming, wouldn't a simple pressure test have proven one way or another if he was telling the truth? Something sounds fishy.

[TeeJay]

I agree with you Teej, but the simple fact of it is that their are plenty of companies out there that do these kinds of things. Apple will only sell you a phone with a three year contract, yet I highly doubt that the battery will last three years. Oh, too bad you can't replace it without sending it to apple service either.

If the lack of oil is something that is happening regularly in breits, its probably just a business decision to bolster profits in the future. Who's going to know? We all know watches need servicing every 5 years or so.

The part that makes me believe that this is some kind of fluke is that Breitling's reputation would be in serious jeopardy if this news was ever discovered by the masses. Not everybody will use AD servicing, so it would only be a matter of time before it was discovered.

If I was the owner of this particular watch, I would definitely send a terse letter to Breitling, and complain both about the water resistance and the oil.

BTW, when the owners AD suggested that he had left the crown unscrewed while swimming, wouldn't a simple pressure test have proven one way or another if he was telling the truth? Something sounds fishy.

You're not wrong there, my friend, it's all things like that which make me not a fan of consumerism and reject brand names on principle, in favor for generics and reps.

As you say, we know watches need servicing ever few years, but, I don't think the general public do, and I think ADs play on that. It's like when the Breitling AD told me about how during a service every part of the movement would be stripped and cleaned, as if that was some superdooper AAA+ level of service, rather than, as we both know, how it should be done anyway He even had a book showing an exploded diagram of the watch and movement to illustrate the point I guess it's just the problem with commercialism in general, not just Breitling as an individual company...

You're right, a pressure test would definitely have proved if it was a failure of the gaskets, or just a case of the crown left open, but, I think it might get a bit confrontational if that was suggested in store... At least it's all dealt with now

[anotherfish]

Have you ever disassembled and overhauled a movement before?

If not... This is not an easy task...

Fair enough, point taken. Thats why I asked

Thanks to Zig for the pictures also. Really interesting.

I've not heard of Phong does he deal from a website or trade through forums. I really want to avoid him.

[ubiquitous]

I've not heard of Phong does he deal from a website or trade through forums. I really want to avoid him.

I don't believe that he visits or frequents the fora...

Phong operates under jewelry and watch; he's got some good products, like cases and hard parts, but movements may be another issue.