automatico

D5 works Ok as far as I know. Never heard any complaints about it gumming up or anything and it should be good for at least 5 years in a sealed watch.

I believe the reason this watch runs so close is the guy who installed the new balance staff knows what he is doing. He r/r the staff, put the hairspring etc back on, leveled the hs, made a tweak or two, and handed it over. All I did was c/o and assembled it a few months later.

I have a 1520 hack movement that runs nearly as close on time and it is not a chronometer movement. I used the same oil except for 9010 on the balance jewels and escape wheel. It's in a DW case with Yuki 5513 dial now but has not been worn much over 5 or 6 months total since c/o. This movement has been in a few project watches in the past four years and about a year ago I took the balance out and c/o the balance jewels again. It had been about 3 years since the c/o it but I could not see any oil on the balance jewels (9010) so I redid it. I plan to put the movement and dial in a Yuki case soon and when I do I am going to look at the balance jewels again. The guy who did the balance staff job said he had used 9010 for years and it had sometimes 'walked away' in a year or two. That's why I went with the heavier 9020. If you over oil the balance jewels the oil can 'wick out' of the setting but we are very careful not to over oil them. I never had this problem before.

It sure looks stout enough!

One advantage with a screw down press is that you can apply slow, steady pressure to a crystal. I use an old BB crystal press and it is hard to get smooth downward force with it. 

You read where the high brow 'rolexperts' say a 'fast beat' rolex movement (28800) is usually a better time keeper than a 'slow beat' movement (18000/19800 etc), well it ain't always true.

A couple months ago I put a 1002 'explorer' together out of parts I gathered up...rolex 1560 (18000) main plate/balance/train wheels from eBay, 1560 autowind assembly from an RWG member, case from eBay, dial from Yuki etc. A friend put a new balance staff in it and I put in a top rotor jewel, rotor axle, two used reversers faded to light purple, new intermediate winding wheel, new mainspring etc plus c/o. No 'tune up', no nothing, I just put it together...Moebius 9020 on all the train wheels including balance jewels, D5 on the center wheel and ms arbor, 9415 on the pallet stones because it was handy, and KT22 on setting parts. No 9010 on the balance jewels like the rolexperts say to use because it is hot outside and I went with the heavier oil. If it freezes and seizes, so what? Sue me.

Oh yeah, the D5 is not synthetic. Call the rolex police!

How does it run?

I wore it for a day or two at a time and did not time it against an accurate time source so I put it on last Friday evening after setting it with a Junghans Mega radio controlled clock and wore it most of the time since then. It is showing about 9 or 10 seconds fast after almost 7 days.

About 9 or 10 = as close as I can eyeball it.

I 'hacked' it by holding back on the crown to stall the movement until the times matched then let it go. It flipped ahead a couple or three seconds and they are not figured into the timing so in reality it is probably closer to 6 or 7 seconds fast but I am going by what shows.

Not bad for a bunch of parts nearing 50 years old.  

No one can accuse me of knowing what I am talking about but from my sometimes disappointing experiences with vintage submariner cases...imho you are better off to spend the money for a higher quality case that will accept genuine spec dials, crystals, bezels/inserts, case tubes/crowns, and crystals.

Why?

Because high quality out of spec parts are very, very hard to find. Especially dials.

For Eta powered projects...MBK cases are fine but the 5513 and 1680 cases are made for 26.0mm dials so a 26.5mm genspec 1680 dial will have the minute markers partially covered. The stock MBK 1680 dial is not too bad if you can find one but some are very rough around the edges from being ground down to fit the smaller 5512/13 dial seat.

If you find a DW case and decide to use it for a 5512/13 project, remember that they are all made for 26.5mm dials. At least all mine were (8 or 9 of them).

Read up on DW cases before jumping in.

Read up on DW too before you order a case.

I have wasted a LOT of time and effort trying to make mismatched parts go together and if anyone wants one good 'keeper' watch, it is better to go 'first class' the first time around.

'First class' to me means maybe a Yuki case for genuine movement projects and MBK for Eta projects. Silix etc cartel cases are probably Ok but I never tried one.

Why Yuki and MBK?

Only because I have had good luck with them. There are 'better' cases available of course (J&W, MQ etc) but they cost a LOT more and almost no one can tell the difference.

Please remember I am talking about a 'keeper' here and not a 'quickie' to wear a while and flip off into the sunset.  

Me too. Most of my messages have gone south.

I'm caught in a time warp...I have a few 14060 from 'Watchlover David' 13 or 15 years ago with the same dial with the round 'O' in rOlex where it should be Century Bold.

Mine came with pretty good cases, bracelets, and sapphire crystals but the bracelets had solid mid links like most of them did back then. I c/o the swiss 2836 in one a few years back and still wear it now and then.

The watch pictured also has a later type bracelet with the half link.

VRF 7-18-14:

"There is a batch of "spare" or replacement 5514 cases that somehow escaped the factory but in my mind they were different from the one depicted here. Furthermore the engraving has fake tel-tales."

Yeah, they escaped to HH, J$W, MQ, Yuki etc.   

Btw...I have the last 5513. 

The last 5512.

...and the last 1680.

Maybe the 1680 is next to last. I dunno.  

I have a few 'Abay/Paul' 5514 cases with the hev made like genuine and they all will hold to 80 or 90 psi (about 6 atm).

Old timers will remember Abay/Paul.

I wore one of the watches quite a bit a few years ago and made a valve with a slightly oversize shaft from 316 rod and pressed it into the case without a gasket or keeper and it sealed Ok too. I made the end that shows a little bit thicker to make up for not having an O ring.

How to remove the valve to change it back like it was...

Drill the head off and press the shaft through the case or carefully knock it out from the inside.

DW currently has V7733 and V/Eta 7750 cases on eBay so you might contact him and see if he would put a V72 case up for you.

Val 7734 case item number...331237290543

Val/Eta 7750 case...231273419060

My guess is the date wheel is rubbing the dial, dial spacer, or something in the date works is not up to par. Probably will have to remove the dial to see what is going on.

It may be an easy fix.

Flip the dates around by quick set while looking through the date window and see if the date wheel is an even distance below the window all the way around. High spots can cause dragging on the dial. If the dw appears to be even all the way around and the date catches half way in the window all the time or now and then, it usually means there may not be enough tension on the date wheel locating spring or not enough 'kick' when it changes.

If random dates catch half way in the window it is usually a date flip works problem. 

If the hanging in the window is random and you can lightly flip the case with your finger and the date goes from half way to complete change, it is usually date flipper trouble rather than dragging on the dial etc.

note:

All the above is an uneducated guess. 

In the USA a small independent shop usually charges around $75 to c/o an automatic Eta 28xx 'carry in' movement needing no parts. High overhead shops will charge more.

'Carry in' = movement is all together with stem and date wheel, no missing parts, no dial, no case. Installing dial and hands may be a little more.

They may not guarantee the work because they have no control over handling/installation.

They are very good movements imho.

I used 1960s/1970s Bulova 11BLACD in a few projects but the prices have gone up on them. The 11ALACD is the same thing except for plating color...BLACD is gold tone and ALACD is silver tone.

I agree...it's better to buy the complete set rather than parts and hope they fit.

The 'watchman408' set on eBay looks like it might have a matte finish like Clark and ST bezel sets. If so, it is probably the same set and I have had good luck with them.

Even when the crystal retainer bezels are oem spec, the differences in case neck od and crystal skirt thickness of aftmkt parts can make fitting it all together a hassle. You need to install the crystal on the case, then measure the od of the crystal with a digital caliper and compare it with the id of the crystal retainer bezel before trying to press the retainer bezel down over the crystal. If it is much more than .1mm difference you may crack the crystal skirt.

Catch 22...this depends on if the crystal is loose or tight on the case neck. Loose needs a tighter fit between the mounted crystal and retainer bezel so it will squeeze the crystal down on the case neck. There is not much of a fix for a retainer bezel that is too loose on the crystal, you will need to find a crystal with a thicker skirt.

It might take three crystals...

One to sacrifice when fitting/removing etc.

One to use on the watch.

One for a spare...because the next batch of crystals may not be made to the same specs.  

Gold project...

I have a solid 18k aftmkt DD case but never finished it because the dial window is about 1 or 2mm too big for a standard rolex DD or DJ dial. I had a slightly larger od Bulova Oceanographer dial refinished as a 'California' dial but it is just barely big enough to keep from falling through the dial window so it will not work without a precision spacer and a lot of hassle...the inside of the case has no case clamp brackets etc. I thought maybe a dial from a modern jumbo DJ might work but do not know the od of the dials.

Cases similar to it on eBay are over $3k now (!!).

I shot my mouth off. Apology to the 'goat. 

Waaay back at a watch show, a dealer guy from Dallas told me they call yeller gold DDs Texas Timexes. 

Dammit! I did it again.  

I agree with dtm above, you might go tutone. I put a few tt DJ together using steel replica DJ cases that will accept genspec sapphire crystals and case tubes with swisseta 2836 with date wheel overlay plus genuine or good aftmkt dials and they all turned out just fine. I used solid gold genuine or aftmkt fluted or smooth bezels, genuine crowns and aftmkt ss/14k jubilee bracelets with replica clasps. Always use metal spacers with case clamps and screws to hold the movement solidly in place (no plastic spacers!), check them for wr down to about 30m and the watches will be trouble free.

They will end up costing around $1500 at today's gold prices but if you get good deals on the bracelet and bezel you can take the watch apart and sell the parts and get most of your $$ back in a few years if you decide to sell out. It's hard to tell 14k gold from 18k gold on center links so I always go with lower cost 14k even when the bezel is 18k.

When I bought the bezels and bracelets, gold prices were a lot lower and bracelets and bezels cost about half of what they go for today so a watch was around $1000 back then. If you figure a 16233 in good condition is around $3000 today, $1500 is still a lot of $$ for a replica but with a genuine watch you might need expensive part$ and $ervice but with a replica you will not. Otoh, like I said, you can always wear it a few years then part it out and lose only a few hundred bucks or maybe break even depending on gold prices.

With a good dial and bracelet these watches are very hard to tell from genuine, unlike submariners.

Why's that?

Because there are not many DJ 'experts' walking around but submariner 'experts' are everywhere, They are easy to spot...most are grownups wearing genuine submariners...acting like they are 5 or 6 years old.  

Ex-ch-ch-changes...

Eight or ten years ago I ordered 3 genuine clasps (two DJ, one 93150) from a chain store AD and traded in replicas that had been rubbed across a concrete garage floor a few times. The AD sent them off and they went right through.

The replica DJ clasps had 6 adjustment holes, not 7 like genuine and the 93150 clasp was missing the flipper locker and first link. The genuine 93150 clasp came with the flipper and first link attached.

The 93150 was $185 and the DJ were $65 each iirc.

Bought two DJ clasps about 20 years ago from an independent AD and they were $40 each no exchange. The same AD would sell you a new tutone DJ16233 time head or bracelet for half the list price of a complete watch at the time. If someone wanted a new tutone bracelet they took one off a display watch and ordered another bracelet for the time head.

If I could travel through time...I would load up on watches and parts.

...and Apple stock.

A beat up accurately made replica glidelock clasp might pass for exchange..or not. I would depend on the rolexdrone's inattention to detail. and/or attitude.

Time may change me

But I can't trace time

'Changes' DB 

Projects such as this rarely turn out very well. The Yuki '3135' is not too hot to begin with and to throw good $$ and good parts at one is not a real good idea imho. I do not like to discourage anyone with their sights set on a special project but since I have not read many good comments on the 3135 clones, I have a low opinion of them.

Add up the cost of the Yuki '3135', all the genuine parts, the case, dial etc, plus any labor cost involved and see how much it turns out to be.

Probably not much less than a genuine AK, DJ or OPD. I bought an all genuine black dial 14010M AK with 13 link oyster a while back for $1275.

I would always go with a genuine Eta 28xx in a rolex project because of cost and reliability. A few steps up would be a Frankenstein with high grade case and dial with a genuine movement in a vintage project.

For a modern submariner I would go with TC and be on the lookout for a fresh genuine Eta to go in it later.

A carefully assembled project watch with a genuine Eta or rolex movement is a 20 year watch.

A mix of Yuki '3135' and genuine parts might turn out to be a one weekend a month watch. 

The A7750 reminds me of many products that are overly trouble prone but still have quite a few fans. I see them as junque, but many do not. To me they are conglomerations of cheapo, ill fitting little bitty parts that need expensive $ervice.

I have a couple but never wore them and if I did, I would not run the timers because that is where the trouble begins...starting, stopping, and resetting.

Otoh, they are Ok for watches with 6-9-12 subdials...if they run Ok to begin with and you keep your fingers off the triggers. Fako 'Navatimers' for instance.

I feel much the same about Asian Miyota clones.

This is in addition to my earlier post about Frankensteins in general being a not so good investment.

This post is about genuine movement Frankenstein 1680, 5512, and 5513 comparing them to a genuine watch while trying to make them a not so bad investment.

One thing that can be said about a carefully built Frankenstein is if you use high quality components and careful assembly, the overall quality can rival many very expensive genuine watches...made expensive today because of 'collector inflation'.

Most of my genuine movement Frankenstein experience is with 1680/5512/13, here is what I have learned:

1...A high quality case...Yuki, MBK, J&W etc can be WR to at least 100M. Not bad at all when compared to a genuine vintage example with case corrosion problems etc.

2...A fresh Eta 28xx is about as good as anything you can find but a high quality Frankenstein vintage relax really needs a genuine movement if $$ permits imho.

3...A fresh genuine relax 15xx is a very good movement but the service life depends on being able to find parts and someone who is willing to stick their neck out to work on it.

'Stick their neck out' = taking the chance on losing or breaking an expensive part and/or going through the hassle of finding parts.

So...for the reasons above, a first rate Frankenstein can be a very high quality watch that will last for many years making this is a pretty good 'investment' if you plan to keep it and wear it. When I see some of the beat up, rotted out, mix and match 'genuine junk' for sale for $5000 to $10,000...a genuine movement Frankenstein is not that expensive after all.

Cases I have used...IG44 1680, Yuki 5512/5513, MBK 1680/5513 (same case), Phong 1655. I must say the overall quality of them all is outstanding.

Also have a few DW 5513 and 1680 cases and they are not bad at all except for the rounded sides, no bevel on lug tops, and non genspec bezel assemblies. A DW 5513 case is really a 1680 case internally and a 26.0mm 5512/13 dial is too small. I had to make a spacer to go between the dial and case window 27.0mm od x 25.6mm id x .85mm thick to be able to use a 5513 dial on a 1520.

The thin spacer got so flimsy that I had to use an 8mm 'WW' six jaw bezel chuck to finish cutting the id. 

Make sure it changes at the same time every day before you have the hands repositioned.

Other than looking like a road rash blister, I like it.

Just kidding about the blister. 

I have been saying this for 25 years...

The problem is and always will be parts. The entity that controls parts, controls the prices. Basic labor to c/o a watch is not really the problem. Since the factories decided to limit or stop parts supplies to small repair shops, service prices have gone up a few hundred percent because shops that can get parts will charge out the wazoo for service (factory authorized service centers for example). Shops that can not get parts are left with swapping batteries and working on watches that need no parts.

'Parts' = any part that is exclusive to a certain watch...generic gaskets, most crystals, spring bars etc will still be available.

Another sad fact...

Anyone who completes an extensive watch repair course is now faced with working for an AD, factory authorized sweat shop, or working on junk in a hole in the wall shop from now on. Not only are watch owners getting screwed but the future of watch repair as a vocation is bleak indeed.

In a few years, cheapo throwaway watches will be all you see (except on rich fat guys).

...along with a few submariner replicas.  Ha!  

From what I have seen...

About 90% of the 'new breed' of trendy mechanical watch owners know less about watches than the average stray dog.

Half of them can't tell if their watch is running or not, much less tell what time it is without a cell phone. They walk around with the date changing at 12 noon asking if they should 'send it in and have it overhauled' to fix the date.

One of them told me his watch was 'wound too tight' and would not run, then asked if he could turn the crown backwards to let the 'pressure' off. 

Your dial and hands will not work on an Eta...swiss or asian etaclone.

My advice for a swisseta upgrade is to start with a watch with an etaclone movement and change it out for a genuine swisseta when it quits.

Chances are your watch is not machined for case clamps as most '21j' watches use plastic spacers.

It may have an MG crystal, not sapphire.

The hand stack is not very important to many replica owners as it is a minor detail.