alligoat

Try Josh at perfectclones: http://www.perfectclones88.com/rlyls10001-...6712-p-422.html Of course, I don't know where yours came from, and that might be the first place to try, since then the two watches might come from the same manufacturer and look the same.

On gen Rolex 16610's the correct bezel insert is the same as for the 16800. Part # 315-16800 or something like that. The problem occurs, like Bruce says, when you try to fit the bezel insert in a rep. That's when you have to go to modifying the insert to make it fit.

Like you freddy, I've seen both datewheels on DRSD's (or WSD's), but I would say that the flat-top 3's are the more common type of datewheel seen on the 1575 Rolex movement. I actually have a gen 1500 Date from 1966 (1575 movt) with the round top threes and closed sixes and nines. I've also seen the round top 3's with the open sixes and nines similar to the later 3035 and early 3135 datewheels. But overall, I've seen more of the vintage 1575 movts w/ the flat-top threes, and open 6's and 9's. In original subs and SD's they were originally silver background, but later Rolex replacememtns were white background. And of course, during initial assembly by Rolex, they were prone to using whatever stock was on hand. I've got the Watchmeister datewheel, but I haven't gotten around to installing it on my WM 1680, because it's just not that big a deal to me at this point! I;'ve also noticed that Wholesale outlet in Sugar Land, TX is selling a 1575 aftermarket datewheel w/ the flat top threes and open sixes and nines for around $40 on ebay. Last week I saw it w/ alternating red and black numbers!

A DRSD takes the old style bracelet- 93150 with the 580 or 585 end pieces. The SEL's only come on the later 93250 (after 2000 16610) and aren't correct for the DRSD.

The bezel insert for the 5513 is not the same size as the insert for the 16800/16610. And of course, the pearl on that 5513 insert is not correct for that model. bklm has been taking the pearl from a www,watchmaterial.com/ insert and applying it to the noobmariner bezel insert w/o removing the the insert itself. Pop off the old pearl and glue in the watchmaterial pearl. I bought a bezel insert from Raymond Lee on ebay and put it on my old CN sub and like it for the price- under $20, but I haven't seen his stuff on ebay lately. And on my noob/begin/perfect, I have just left the stock pearl and insert on there. Heck, the big a$$ crown bothers me more than the pearl. And I always trim the inside edges of the cg's.

I just did the same thing and saw both the 2893 and the modified 2836 advertised. Interesting.

When you say "So called perfect sub", I guess you're referring to Paul's "perfect sub", which is the same as the Noobmariner, Beginmariner, TWG's eta sub, EL's and even River's eta copy sub. I like to refer to these as the CN 2006 sub. Yes, removing the bezel has proven to be a problem, so as Pug says, your best bet might be to take a knife and try to remove the bezel insert. It would be a good idea to protect the crystal with masking tape or something else. Remove any glue or residue on the bezel ring itself. Then you're going to have to fit the new insert by trial and error and it will probably involve some filing of the back side to get it to fit properly. When you finally get it fitting in there, you'll need to glue it, but don't glue the bezel to where it won't turn.

I have actually taken a rep tube out w/ the A&F tool and the rat tail file, and then put loctite on the threads and reinstalled it. Of course, you take the inside o-ring out first and then put it back in after you've reinstalled the tube. This was on a sub rep that I was waterproofing, but wasn't going to change out the crown and tube to gen. But yes, anytime you take out a rep tube, you run the risk of messing it up!

Typically a gen dial won't fit in a rep sub. A gen dial is 27mm roughly and the rep dials are in the 28mm range. The one exception is the TW Best will accept a gen dial, but it has to be perfectly centered in the case. On a CN case, the inside case ring is to big and the dial just goes on thru to the crystal. This is for the modern Subs, not the MBW vintages

I'd have to agree with it being fake, as dalayclass says. The El Primero has the running seconds at nine and the movement alone is tough to find for less than $1000. Even if you had the EP movt, a good rep case and correct rep dial, it would have to sell for more than 1450- euros or dollars.

The sad thing about this is that someone is out to buy the blank guarantee and create a provenance for a watch which is a hoax. Just more lying, cheating bs.

I'm with Tribal on this one, the A&F tool isn't really worth it. I have been able to jam it into a rep case tube and from time to time I can twist the tube out. Other times I end up using the rat tail file. But you're not going to be able to use the A&F tool for installing a new style Rolex case tube. I tried torx screwdrivers and couldn't get one of those to work, so today I ordered the case tube tool from Jules Borel- Part# STK-1060 (6mm) for $35 plus s&h today. Look under Horological and then Specialized tools for Rolex. It's also a good idea to get the tap so that you can clean up the threads before you try to install the new case tube. Interestingly, I've never run across a rep case tube which had grooves on the inside for removing it from the case- Lord knows how they put them in. The one I pulled last nite looked like it had some kinda glue on the threads.

Let's start out with the obvious. Dial feet should be at 6:00 and 11:30 Early dials were marked Singer- like early Red Subs Later dials were marked Beyeler- like a white sub dial that I have on a 78 gen. Later replacement dials, I guess, could be marked Rolex, up until the late 90's or so when the use of Tritium was discontinued. Rolex, at some point started prodcucing everything "in-house", but I don't know when that occurred. As for your dials, No. 1- the lume is inconsistent with the background painting- the white painting, that is. No. 2- maybe the printing isn't as good as it should be- just my opinion. I can't tell you if they are original, but they're not bad looking by any means from my point of view.

Last week on the radio I heard.... Mick Jagger's worth $420 million and Keith Richards is worth $380 million. Conclusion: There's just no accounting for taste. Besides, not everyone can be like Eric Clapton and collect Rolexes!

Very Nice, Beautiful job, Dave. Seeing your watch makes me want to get back on the 6263 course, I've got three v72's, I just can't come to grips with taking one out of it's case.

Congratulations! It's always nice to have a rep that survives the water test. I have a 5513 w/ the Explorer dial that has tested to 4ATM's and done well wade fishing, jet skiing and swimming. However, a few weeks ago I had my WM 1680 and a CN 16610 tested. It looked like everything was OK, but water showed up on the crystals after awhile so it was back to the house to take the casebacks off and get the hair dryer out. Going to have to work on those two some more. For serious scuba diving I still use my William Marshall Sub or my Zodiac Red Point Sub. They've each passed the 30M test w/o a hitch.

Tony, You must want to get scammed. The guy says "No Refunds", "There will be no local pickup", Maybe you could screw him up by paying w/ Paypal, but is it worth it? The guy's a scam Andrew's 6263 is 40mm and a gen is 37mm. DW is the only one w/ a case that's close to correct- maybe some of the other sellers on ebay have the same case, but even with those, you'd be taking a risk.

Yep, avitt's right. Symmetrical pushers, crappy pictures and the guy's never sold a thing on ebay. And you can buy the same watch for $250-300 from the dealers around here!

The crispness of the Rolex crown on the clasp in the last picture (the gen), is pretty amazing compared to the rep bracelet. Also, as you indicate, the rep crystal sits pretty high above the bezel insert on the rep. All in all, you have to admit, it's getting tougher to tell the difference between rep and gen. If you trimmed the inside of the crown guards on the rep, it would be almost impossible. Great pics and great comparison.

Yep, Jet, you're right! Pulled this out of Rivers photo album: http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/riv...litaretudor.jpg And I do seem to remember the price up in the $7-800 range

I recall seeing a replica Tudor a few months ago which was very similar. Crown at 4 o'clock, different dial... Can't remember which dealer had it- MBW?? Or maybe WM. Anyway, as is always the case with a sketchy provenance, don't bid more than you can afford to lose. I agree w/ freddy on this one- I think it's a put together fake.

I noticed this 5512 on ebay and thought it was interesting. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...p;rd=1&rd=1 This watch has a dial somewhat like kruzer's, but with the larger "maxi" markers, no Swiss-T<25, short minute markers, a somewhat conical rehaut, and slim font on the bezel insert. It is a redial. A couple of things that I've learned over the last few years in studying Rolexes is that even Rolex made changes to the models thru the years, and there are levels of perfection even in the genuine watches. But you have to except that in 40 year old watches, especially when you can no longer get parts for them. Yesterday, this 5512 watch went for $4550. It was in better condition (excepting a movement servicing). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...p;rd=1&rd=1

I think it's going to be tough to find a 116200 case, gen that is. They're just too new. A Joshua rep w/ the eta wouldn't be too bad. Like manuel says, the crystal won't be as thick and the crown on the dial might be a little off, but I doubt you're going to be able to do much better. And 99.99% of the people would never know the difference. The Frankenjusts we've been building are from cases which are 15-27+ years old, where someone has stripped the Rolex movement out of it and put it in an aftermarket gold case. No ones going to do that on a relatively new watch. A new 116200, or slightly used runs over $4K and you can buy older DJ's for $2K or less, so it will be a while before people start stripping movements out of 116200's. I've never had any luck putting a gen dial in a rep case, as far as Datejusts go. It seems the rep cases run just a bit bigger than the gen dials.

I just bought the Noobmariner from River with the 2836 eta asian copy movement for $99. You can find River over at RWI. That's going to be quicker and easier than putting an eta in your watch. I looked at the movement when I trimmed the crown guards and the only thing it's missing is the eta printing below the balance wheel. So far, the watch is keeping spot-on time. I also subscribe to Ziggy's theory about when you buy an eta, that the $70 ones are surplus. I built a Frankenjust, it ran for a couple of weeks and quit so then I had to get it serviced! So my $70 eta 2836 really cost me $140! But now it's fine.

The bezel insert is the same as the one for the 5513. PN 315-5513-1