freddy333

Unfortunately, my Rolex parts catalog precedes the 4130, so I have just been asking watchmakers if they have a spare, but serviceable, 4130 balance & bridge. Oh &, because of all the Daytona flipping, be prepared for sticker shock, even for these used parts. I just saw a used gen 4130 sell for a bit more than $13,000. That is nearly the MSRP of the 116500 itself!

I have no direct experience with VSFs, but, based on the positive reviews I have read & my 1st hand experience with these A4130-powered Daytonas, I think you made the correct choice. If you want to cross all of the t's, invest in a gen dial/handset & balance/bridge & you will not have to look (for the gen) at all. Your VSF's look/feel/performance should then match it. Oh & congratulations on the sale.

???

As Automatico indicated, there are a number of downsides to building gold reps. Unless you use some gen parts, you are likely to run into the same issues. For these reasons, most (generally) suggest avoiding yellow "gold" reps or avoid wearing them often. The few yellow gold reps I have had were either unwearable because the gold plating wore away, which screams FAKE, or spent most of their lives as case queens (ie, purchased more to drool over (in a case) than to wear). As it happens, I am awaiting the arrival of The King of (gold) case queens as I write this (details coming soon). If you have your heart set on a gold gen, I would either bite the bullet & go the franken route -- beginning with a gen case/dial -- & fill in the blanks with aftermarket parts or use a stainless steel case that accepts the correct dial & have the case gold-plated by a jeweler (or diy if you have the time/funds to learn & purchase the plating supplies). Or, better still, stick to steel & 'white gold' models.

Close, but no horseshoe. Stay tuned --

I have been thinking exactly the same thing. But I am not so much worried about what the Chinese government may do. I think this new 'clone' 4130 is putting Rolex in a very difficult spot, which, for the 1st time, is forcing even their established customers to have to redefine what the definition of 'the real thing' is. & I do not see how Rolex can remain profitable (or passive) in such an environment. I would expect to see a SERIOUS crackdown on the entire rep supply chain soon. For that reason, I would recommend that anyone considering 1 of these not delay too long. Is it smart to be forced to wait years & play games to buy 'gens' at crazy prices or is the smart 1 the person who buys a (clone-powered) fake for a fraction of the cost & without any of the wait/games? I think the Asian factories are just a step away from producing entire clones that are the equal of gens. As it is, I consider my franken the 1st diy 'gen' in my collection. In fact, based on look/feel/function, it seems the equal of any of my actual gens. Even my all-gen 6542 (sans insert), fells less genuine 'Swiss' than this Daytona. I could never say that before. These 4130 clones are incredibly good & lack nearly all of the traditional shortcomings & tells of previous generations of movements found in even high-priced fake Rolexes (eg, MBK/MBW, etc). Bottom line -- this watch, as received, is a $5,000 watch that I paid less than $1,000 for. These things are a STEAL. p.s. My little contribution to the Daytona story has been delayed due to fitment issues with the final part. Hopefully, the maker will be able to address their mistake & I will be able to reveal The freddy333 Daytona soon. I think it will be worth the wait. Stay tuned --

Update -- After 24 hours, the watch has developed a minor, but interesting problem as a result of the gen parts transplant -- (on-the-wrist & w/o using the chrono) timing spec went from 1sec/day fast to 1sec/day slow. Because this error is still well within Rolex's spec for the Daytona, it is not worth the time/effort to correct. It is quite a feat for a fake Rolex to exceed Rolex's timing spec to begin with. But it is a testament to the 4130's design & the factory's implementation of that design for a fake Rolex to maintain anything close to its original timing spec after such major surgery (balance & bridge replacement). & to see the gen balance hit the ground running (accurately & without any timing adjustment) in a fake is quite an accomplishment. If you are a Daytona fan, appreciate fine craftsmanship & can afford the (high) price tag, you owe it to yourself to get 1 of these. Trust me on this, even in out-of-the-box form, it is destined to become a classic. As I mentioned earlier, I would have no problem wearing 1 of these watches -- without ANY mods/parts swaps -- as daily wear. & if you have the cash, inclination & skills (or a proper watchmaker willing to do the work for you) to hunt down & swap a few parts for gens, you will end up with a visually, tactilely & functionally genuine Rolex Daytona for a fraction of the MSRP (which only a very select few end up paying anyway) & without all of the games & hassles required of ADs and grey-market flippers.

Update -- I installed the gen free-sprung balance & auto-wind parts. So, as far as I can tell, there is nothing left that would appear out of place on a standard 4130. Also, to address potential 'Is that real?' inquiries, I installed a display caseback (last pic) so the inquisitor can look & decide for him/herself. As best I can tell, the movement is now a 1:1 clone of the original. So, unless I missed something, the mechanical transformation is now complete. However, there remains 1 important piece of The freddy333 Daytona pie. Coming soon..................

I cannot assist you, but wondering if you are trying to build a gen, rep or franken (combination of gen & rep parts) & if you have collected all of the parts for your build?

Still wearing the Big Kahuna.

My feelings exactly.

Update -- As long as you do not run the chrono, The Big Kahuna continues to run within 1 sec/day. Had I not seen it for myself, I would never in a million years believe that a fake, Chinese-made Daytona could achieve accuracy rates like that. Sheer madness................in a good way. More to come --

Update -- I had some time, found myself staring at gen Daytona parts & had idle hands. So I decided to move forward with some of the Kahuna's gen fixes. 1st up -- The Big Kahuna is now fitted with a gen "APH" dial and white gold handset. While I was messing around inside the case, I also replaced the 3 cheap & slightly chewed rotor screws with a fresh set of nicely finished/beveled gens. In my rush to see the new dial in place, I forgot to shoot photos of the inside. But I will get some good movement shots after the balance & auto-wind module work has been completed. Unfortunately, because the Kahuna's OEM hands were so accurate, the gens do not really show themselves off unless you view both handsets side-by-side. Then, if you know what to look for & you view them in just the right light, you can see the slightly warmer hue of the gen (white gold) hands versus the slightly cooler hue of the Kahuna's OEM (stainless steel) hands. As for the dial, not only are all of the fonts now correct -- obviously, being a gen dial they should be -- but the lume has the correct grainy texture rather than the smooth, paint-like white lume of the Kahuna's original dial. As previously mentioned, the Kahuna's dial is so good that some of these differences can only be seen via a loupe. But the gen dial's improved the overall feel of the watch a few percent. Some of the more astute viewers may have also noted the Christmas cheer on the dial in the form of a 116509 red chrono seconds hand. I have seen 2 other known gen 116520s fitted with these red chrono hands, but I do not know whether they came that way from Switzerland or if their owners had their watchmakers perform the same transplant I just did? Either way, I love the way a red chrono hand looks on a Newman & thought it would work similarly well on the Kahuna. Next up -- Swap reverser wheels for gens & the Kahuna's regulated balance for a gen free-sprung balance. Once all of the inside work has been completed & I have tidied-up a few details, I may top the project off with a display caseback to show off the beautiful 4130 caliber. Comments?

Wearing the 1 on the left today

This thread seems to have gone quiet -- Wearing The Big Kahuna today.

For those of us who have been out of the game & not following the significant advances the factories have made in fake Daytonas in the past 2 or 3 years, I think you should watch this. & make sure your cardiologist (& banker) is on speed-dial when you do. You will NEED to spend some cash. As some have guessed from my 1st post, my original plan was to replace all the components that have (minor) issues with gen parts. The result will effectively be a gen Daytona -- all the components you see to operate & use the watch will be genuine. As it is, in 24 hours, the movement gained 1 second, which is better than any other mechanical watch I own. So it certainly is not lacking anything, performance wise, relative to the gen. & I cannot describe how much of a cloaking effect having the correct wrist profile has on the watch's few visual inaccuracies. This is the 1st fake Rolex in my experience that functions & looks 100% like the real thing from an arm's length away. Gone are ALL of the seconds @ 6 7750's clunky feel, twitchy functionality & well-known unreliability. The BIG KAHUNA (I got mine from Andrew (trustytime -- see item ROLDYT0357B) is so good that, after living with it for the past 24 hours, I am not so sure it is worth the time/effort to replace anything other than the dial. & even that would fool someone like me unless I donned a loupe & began poking around at close range. As I mentioned above, this thing is a head-turner (in the best of ways) out of the box. So my new plan is to live with it for a week & then decide whether its few (very) minor inaccuracies (dial font, hands, crown/tube, bezel, balance & bridge, noisy rotor & off-color reversing wheels) merit gen upgrades (which are still sitting on my bench -- that is how good this thing is out of the box)?

Update -- The big kahuna has arrived! Even before I begin work (to correct the big kahuna's few faults with gen fixes), the profile/dimensional differences between the new (left) & old (right) 'tonas are easily apparent.............& the old 'tona is a beauty & has passed muster with many experts without so much as a raised eyebrow out in the wild. The big kahuna sits (properly) lower on the wrist &, from any angle, is virtually indistinguishable from the gen. The caseback, bezel & xtal are dimensionally accurate & present correct profiles out of the box. No modding required there! Unlike the old 'tona's twitchy sweep seconds hand & crude pusher feel, the big kahuna's sweep seconds and pusher functions are smooth as butter. You really could strap this watch on & go without concern of being ID'd in the wild, even by a trained eye. Viewed from an arm's length -- still, my benchmark for accuracy -- this watch has 0 tells &, if seen on another's wrist, there is nothing that would cause me to think anything other than 'he must be 1 of the lucky few who got the call'. Trust me on this -- if you have ever had the gen on your wrist, you would know, instantly, that this watch is a game-changer! Unlike the previous best, which, on the wrist, felt real close, this 1 feels 100%...........& I mean 100%. More -- much more -- to come. Stay tuned --

Alot of similar manufacturers on Alibaba.

Wiser words were never spoken! There has been a feeling of hollowness to all of my post-Bob posts here. 1 of my prime motivations has always been to gage Bob's reaction -- good, bad or instructive -- to my findings & discoveries. I never realized how much of a motivator he (along with Ziggy & a few of the other early members) was.

Update -- Still awaiting the big kahuna that brings everything together. Currently, its eta is 2-3 weeks. If there are no surprises between now & then, the big, colorful reveal should follow shortly after that.

Alligoat summed the DW story up well. However, it is worth noting that 1 of the main selling points of DW's Daytonas was that both his 7750 & V72 cases had the correct offset pusher spacing (ie, the top pusher was closer to the crown than the bottom pusher), which correctly replicated the gen 62xx Daytonas. So, from the outside, regardless of which caliber resided inside the case, the offset pushers made the watch appear to be V72-powered like the gens (which were all powered by Rolex-modified Valjoux 72s). His cases were also fairly accurate in their overall dimensions, especially their thickness, which was another of the details that made DW cases legendary & set them apart from other premium aftermarket part suppliers. From an arm's length -- my benchmark for general credibility -- fitted with a credible-looking dial/handset & bracelet/strap, it was very difficult to ID a DW cased 62xx Daytona as anything but a gen. Goldie, my yellow 6239 Newman (which arrived with a 6241 Perspex-style bezel that I later changed to the 6239 gold-style you see below), was a sample DW made for me as a test to see how accurate the factory could make it & to see if there was sufficient interest for him to go into production. Unfortunately, the cost to manufacture the gold cases proved to be too high to make them marketable in the rep world. &, like all gold-plated steel cases, once they get scratched & reveal the underlying white metal, they become an expensive boat anchor -- unless you want to disassemble the watch & have it replated on your own. Of course, today, where gen Newmans often reach the $1M mark in auctions & good, V72-powered Newman frankens can sometimes bring upwards of $10k, these cases would make much more sense. But, sadly, I lost track of DW several years ago & he seems to have vanished from the scene.

Thanks. You will need to contact MQ for pricing. My Newmans were completed 12-15 years ago & those prices will have little in common with today's prices. Like anything, the 'eye' is developed over time (I have been collecting for a few decades). We all were where you are now. The best tip I can offer is to assume that, when purchasing anything Rolex-related, today's insane price will look like a bargain next year at this time. That rule has held up quite well over the decades, much to the regret of those who failed to heed it.

Good point. However, Elliaz has a Newman dial & I think MQ offers (some of) the best Newmans I have seen (some are rubbish, but the white Newmans are good). Though I have not done a thorough search recently. So there may be someone out there that offers something better than MQ. As for the bezel, if you look at the fonts (especially, the 2s & 8s) in Ruby's bezel & compare to gens, I think you will find that Ruby's fonts are a bit off. Most importantly, they lack the swan-neck 2s, which MQ's bezel gets correct. That is why I think MQ's bezel is worth its higher price. Assuming that you are willing to pay a bit more for a bit more accuracy. Gen (left) vs MQ (right)