freddy333

I cannot assist you, but wondering if you are trying to build a gen, rep or franken (combination of gen & rep parts) & if you have collected all of the parts for your build?

Still wearing the Big Kahuna.

My feelings exactly.

Update -- As long as you do not run the chrono, The Big Kahuna continues to run within 1 sec/day. Had I not seen it for myself, I would never in a million years believe that a fake, Chinese-made Daytona could achieve accuracy rates like that. Sheer madness................in a good way. More to come --

Update -- I had some time, found myself staring at gen Daytona parts & had idle hands. So I decided to move forward with some of the Kahuna's gen fixes. 1st up -- The Big Kahuna is now fitted with a gen "APH" dial and white gold handset. While I was messing around inside the case, I also replaced the 3 cheap & slightly chewed rotor screws with a fresh set of nicely finished/beveled gens. In my rush to see the new dial in place, I forgot to shoot photos of the inside. But I will get some good movement shots after the balance & auto-wind module work has been completed. Unfortunately, because the Kahuna's OEM hands were so accurate, the gens do not really show themselves off unless you view both handsets side-by-side. Then, if you know what to look for & you view them in just the right light, you can see the slightly warmer hue of the gen (white gold) hands versus the slightly cooler hue of the Kahuna's OEM (stainless steel) hands. As for the dial, not only are all of the fonts now correct -- obviously, being a gen dial they should be -- but the lume has the correct grainy texture rather than the smooth, paint-like white lume of the Kahuna's original dial. As previously mentioned, the Kahuna's dial is so good that some of these differences can only be seen via a loupe. But the gen dial's improved the overall feel of the watch a few percent. Some of the more astute viewers may have also noted the Christmas cheer on the dial in the form of a 116509 red chrono seconds hand. I have seen 2 other known gen 116520s fitted with these red chrono hands, but I do not know whether they came that way from Switzerland or if their owners had their watchmakers perform the same transplant I just did? Either way, I love the way a red chrono hand looks on a Newman & thought it would work similarly well on the Kahuna. Next up -- Swap reverser wheels for gens & the Kahuna's regulated balance for a gen free-sprung balance. Once all of the inside work has been completed & I have tidied-up a few details, I may top the project off with a display caseback to show off the beautiful 4130 caliber. Comments?

Wearing the 1 on the left today

This thread seems to have gone quiet -- Wearing The Big Kahuna today.

For those of us who have been out of the game & not following the significant advances the factories have made in fake Daytonas in the past 2 or 3 years, I think you should watch this. & make sure your cardiologist (& banker) is on speed-dial when you do. You will NEED to spend some cash. As some have guessed from my 1st post, my original plan was to replace all the components that have (minor) issues with gen parts. The result will effectively be a gen Daytona -- all the components you see to operate & use the watch will be genuine. As it is, in 24 hours, the movement gained 1 second, which is better than any other mechanical watch I own. So it certainly is not lacking anything, performance wise, relative to the gen. & I cannot describe how much of a cloaking effect having the correct wrist profile has on the watch's few visual inaccuracies. This is the 1st fake Rolex in my experience that functions & looks 100% like the real thing from an arm's length away. Gone are ALL of the seconds @ 6 7750's clunky feel, twitchy functionality & well-known unreliability. The BIG KAHUNA (I got mine from Andrew (trustytime -- see item ROLDYT0357B) is so good that, after living with it for the past 24 hours, I am not so sure it is worth the time/effort to replace anything other than the dial. & even that would fool someone like me unless I donned a loupe & began poking around at close range. As I mentioned above, this thing is a head-turner (in the best of ways) out of the box. So my new plan is to live with it for a week & then decide whether its few (very) minor inaccuracies (dial font, hands, crown/tube, bezel, balance & bridge, noisy rotor & off-color reversing wheels) merit gen upgrades (which are still sitting on my bench -- that is how good this thing is out of the box)?

Update -- The big kahuna has arrived! Even before I begin work (to correct the big kahuna's few faults with gen fixes), the profile/dimensional differences between the new (left) & old (right) 'tonas are easily apparent.............& the old 'tona is a beauty & has passed muster with many experts without so much as a raised eyebrow out in the wild. The big kahuna sits (properly) lower on the wrist &, from any angle, is virtually indistinguishable from the gen. The caseback, bezel & xtal are dimensionally accurate & present correct profiles out of the box. No modding required there! Unlike the old 'tona's twitchy sweep seconds hand & crude pusher feel, the big kahuna's sweep seconds and pusher functions are smooth as butter. You really could strap this watch on & go without concern of being ID'd in the wild, even by a trained eye. Viewed from an arm's length -- still, my benchmark for accuracy -- this watch has 0 tells &, if seen on another's wrist, there is nothing that would cause me to think anything other than 'he must be 1 of the lucky few who got the call'. Trust me on this -- if you have ever had the gen on your wrist, you would know, instantly, that this watch is a game-changer! Unlike the previous best, which, on the wrist, felt real close, this 1 feels 100%...........& I mean 100%. More -- much more -- to come. Stay tuned --

Alot of similar manufacturers on Alibaba.

Wiser words were never spoken! There has been a feeling of hollowness to all of my post-Bob posts here. 1 of my prime motivations has always been to gage Bob's reaction -- good, bad or instructive -- to my findings & discoveries. I never realized how much of a motivator he (along with Ziggy & a few of the other early members) was.

Update -- Still awaiting the big kahuna that brings everything together. Currently, its eta is 2-3 weeks. If there are no surprises between now & then, the big, colorful reveal should follow shortly after that.

Alligoat summed the DW story up well. However, it is worth noting that 1 of the main selling points of DW's Daytonas was that both his 7750 & V72 cases had the correct offset pusher spacing (ie, the top pusher was closer to the crown than the bottom pusher), which correctly replicated the gen 62xx Daytonas. So, from the outside, regardless of which caliber resided inside the case, the offset pushers made the watch appear to be V72-powered like the gens (which were all powered by Rolex-modified Valjoux 72s). His cases were also fairly accurate in their overall dimensions, especially their thickness, which was another of the details that made DW cases legendary & set them apart from other premium aftermarket part suppliers. From an arm's length -- my benchmark for general credibility -- fitted with a credible-looking dial/handset & bracelet/strap, it was very difficult to ID a DW cased 62xx Daytona as anything but a gen. Goldie, my yellow 6239 Newman (which arrived with a 6241 Perspex-style bezel that I later changed to the 6239 gold-style you see below), was a sample DW made for me as a test to see how accurate the factory could make it & to see if there was sufficient interest for him to go into production. Unfortunately, the cost to manufacture the gold cases proved to be too high to make them marketable in the rep world. &, like all gold-plated steel cases, once they get scratched & reveal the underlying white metal, they become an expensive boat anchor -- unless you want to disassemble the watch & have it replated on your own. Of course, today, where gen Newmans often reach the $1M mark in auctions & good, V72-powered Newman frankens can sometimes bring upwards of $10k, these cases would make much more sense. But, sadly, I lost track of DW several years ago & he seems to have vanished from the scene.

Thanks. You will need to contact MQ for pricing. My Newmans were completed 12-15 years ago & those prices will have little in common with today's prices. Like anything, the 'eye' is developed over time (I have been collecting for a few decades). We all were where you are now. The best tip I can offer is to assume that, when purchasing anything Rolex-related, today's insane price will look like a bargain next year at this time. That rule has held up quite well over the decades, much to the regret of those who failed to heed it.

Good point. However, Elliaz has a Newman dial & I think MQ offers (some of) the best Newmans I have seen (some are rubbish, but the white Newmans are good). Though I have not done a thorough search recently. So there may be someone out there that offers something better than MQ. As for the bezel, if you look at the fonts (especially, the 2s & 8s) in Ruby's bezel & compare to gens, I think you will find that Ruby's fonts are a bit off. Most importantly, they lack the swan-neck 2s, which MQ's bezel gets correct. That is why I think MQ's bezel is worth its higher price. Assuming that you are willing to pay a bit more for a bit more accuracy. Gen (left) vs MQ (right)

Unless you want gen parts (& have the army of accountants to fund them), try -- T-21 xtal (ebay) -- 255796636526 Bezel -- MQ If you are feeling frisky & your watch is V72-powered, you might also replace the dial with a more accurate 1 from MQ.

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I think this is an attempt by Rolex to both cash-in on the pornographic profits Rolex flippers & gray marketeers have been making & a vain attempt to stem the flow of increasingly accurate (& difficult to ID as 'fake') Rolex clones coming out of Asia. I think they will be fairly successful with the former, but probably too little, too late in the case of the latter. You can now get a certificate of authenticity, a two-year warranty and a wax seal tag for your pre-owned Rolex. Everything You Need to Know About Rolex’s Certified Pre-Owned Watch Program

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I think there may be some truth to Rolex's comments -- Rolex Is Reportedly Building a New $1 Billion Factory Rolex plans new factory and 2,000 jobs in Switzerland

I think the major brands are going to have to rethink their marketing strategies before they alienate their existing & potential customer base. Unfortunately, your experience has become the norm, rather than the exception. Charging top prices for mostly unobtainium products, or requiring a potential customer to pass a social media background investigation before being granted the privilege to pay (often questionable) 'luxury' prices (mainly for a better fit & finish relative to their Chinese analogues -- never thought I would have to say that, but, now, it has to be said), or having your catalog available for hands-on demo/actual purchase only via the gray market is a recipe for failure. Though, to be fair, here is the official word on the subject from Rolex -- 'The scarcity of our products is not a strategy on our part. Our current production cannot meet the existing demand in an exhaustive way, at least not without reducing the quality of our watches – something we refuse to do as the quality of our products must never be compromised. This level of excellence requires time, and as we have always done, we will continue to take the necessary time to ensure that all our watches not only comply with our standards of excellence, but also meet the expectations of our customers in terms of quality, reliability and robustness. Rolex does not compromise on what it takes to produce exceptional watches. All Rolex watches are developed and produced in-house at our four sites in Switzerland. They are assembled by hand, with extreme care, to meet the brand's unique and high-quality standards of quality, performance and aesthetics. Understandably, this naturally restricts our production capacities – which we continue to increase as much as possible and always according to our quality criteria. Finally, it should be noted that Rolex watches are available exclusively from official retailers, who independently manage the allocation of watches to customers.' Why the Rolex watch shortage is a 'perfect storm'

The Valjoux 23 is a clone of the 72, but in bi- rather than tri-compax form (ie, 2 rather then 3 chrono subdials). So any case made for a V72 will also fit a V23. The easiest way to 'freeze' a chrono hand is to permanently attach it to the dial with a tiny amount of cement or glue. The downside is that, if you look closely, you can see that the hand is sitting on the dial rather than sitting slightly above it. When viewed with the naked eye & depending on the dial color & lighting, it 'looks' like the hand was simply pressed onto the pinion too far by an amateur watchmaker. However, you run the risk of applying too much cement or smearing the dial paint. But if you are careful, this process can work well. Another option is to slip the hand through the hole in the dial & cement a small, flat piece of metal to the bottom of the hand tube & cement the flat piece to the underside of the dial. If done well, it results in a normal looking chrono hand. Another option is, working from the back of the dial, place & hold the loose hand in the proper position within the hole in the dial & cement the hand's tube (the vertical part that fits onto the pinion of the wheel that drives the hand) in place from the backside. The best (most realistic-looking) option is also the most difficult. Solder or epoxy a small pinion directly to the plate that sits directly below the chrono hole in the dial. Make it the same height as the other 2 real/working chrono pinions & you can then fit the hand as you would the rest of the working chrono hands. Or, if you are a bit more skillful & have the tools, drill a hole through the plate below the chrono (flush with the bottom of the plate so the pinion does not interfere with any components below the plate) & press fit a pinion into the hole so that it sticks up through the dial at the same height as the rest of the working chrono pinions.

ETA = 2 weeks +/-.

I can see both sides. Still, with impetus from the ever-willing/improving Asian Switzerland, I think the brands are creating a rift between themselves & their buyers, which is never a good thing. Making gen ownership more difficult while the Asians are making their copies more accurate -- both aesthetically & functionally -- cheaper & accessible cannot end well for the brands. Any of them, including Rolex. With rep factories like Noob having recently reverse-engineered the 4130 calibre to a fairly accurate degree -- sufficient to replicate OEM feel/function & accept many gen parts as drop-in replacements -- I think it is only a matter of time until traditional Rolex/Omega/Bulova, etc. buyers realize that high-end reps that offer 98% of the overall gen look/feel/experience for a fraction of the gen price make more sense than dealing with ADs, wait (& permission) lists & grey market scalpers (who often charge 2x retail). As it is, I recently read that more than 50% of the 'genuine' Rolex Daytona 116500LNs being displayed on Instragram are Noobs! I have no way to verify that, but I do see alot of Rolexes online that contain tells indicating their source was likely far east of Switzerland. On the other hand, I can appreciate the frustration of ADs, who are stuck between brands trying to protect their investments/intellectual property & buyers, who are feeling used/abused for the opportunity of having to fund the whole mess. I get that the brands just want to sell (new) watches. After all, that IS their business. But, as was the case with mp3 downloading, Napster & the record companies many years ago, I think the brands need to find a way to co-exist with (& profit from) the reality of a 21st Century luxury watch business that includes cheap CNC production, 3-D printing & global communication. I just do not see a way to have a successful business model based on exclusive distribution channels while those channels are inherently distributed & impossible to control. Remember IBM thinking they could market a PC & use their clout to maintain control of the PC market? Then, companies like Compac reverse-engineered the PC & produced a better PC for less money with more features? Well, I think history is about to repeat itself. As I posed elsewhere, what happens when (not if) Noob (or someone like them) begins offering spare parts &/or (reasonably priced) service for their reverse-engineered Rolex calibres? Of course, the question is completely rhetorical, because I think we all (including Rolex) know the answer. This is the ultimate nightmare for Rolex & the other brands -- Daytona Gen vs Noob