freddy333

UPDATE -- The secs at 6 Daytona used as the guinea pig for the powdered graphite test has now been running (and worn daily, which I would not recommend, but this is not my watch), trouble free, for more than 7 weeks

I try to save most of the Daytonas for weekends & special occasions to keep them in pristine condition, but here are a few old wristies & 1 fantasy ad to tide you over (A friend modeling my 6263 beater) (Me modeling my 6263 beater) (The Beat Brothers modeling my 6263 beater)

Beater (in b&w) today

Post good, clear pictures of the NOS bracelet in question to the Rolex Vintage forum on TZ. The experts there will be able to provide the most definitive answer short of Rolex itself.

Thank you. In reference to the comments in your tag, have you read TTK's post from earlier today?

With the exception of my previous response (regarding Stan), none of my other comments are based on Stan's credibility. And I just checked Stan's site & unless I missed something, Stan is not selling the same 7836 that this seller is selling. How did Stan get involved in authenticating the 7836 that this seller is selling?

I have dealt with Stan for quite awhile & he definitely knows his stuff when it comes to Rolex bracelets & end links. If, based on a direct personal examination of the bracelet in question (as opposed to just viewing pictures as we are doing), Stan says these are gen, then, lacking the definitive word from Rolex itself, that is good enough for me.

It looks like 1 of the older MBW dials. Not an NDtrading dial (at right).

Some of the older MBWs (with 2836s installed) came with dials glued, but I think the newer ones (with 2846s installed) have correctly fitted dials (mine came with dial feet). Without seeing your dial, it is impossible to source it. Pics, when available, will help.

I just found the seller on ebay & it appears that not only does he have very few previous sales, but all of the previous sales are aftermarket items (some of very low quality). So, assuming the pictures in the sellers auction post are accurate, the odds are that Mezz's original guess is probably correct -- there are good aftermarket folded link bracelets available. But I would cap a purchase for 1 of these at around $150 since gens go for $200 & up (I would take an average condition gen for $200 over an aftermarket anytime). That is the best I can conclude without actually seeing & handling 1 of these bracelets in person.

And another thing -- if someone was making aftermarket folded link bracelets, I would expect that at least 1 of our collectors would be offering them on their watches. This whole thing kind of reminds me of the baldness cure infomercials we all see on tv, where the sellers will say they have these marvelous 'cures', but no one in the medical community offers them. If such a thing as a quality aftermarket/rep folded link bracelet does exist, why is it that none of our collectors have them?

Let me add something else to my previous post to put this into perspective. Let us assume that this is a rep/aftermarket bracelet. Now, if you compare this rep bracelet to the gen and then compare 1 of the riveted or solid link Oyster rep/aftermarket bracelets to their gen counterparts, I think this 1 comes up looking quite respectable. Whereas that riveted POS is an embarrassment that is spotted from across a room by even a casual observer, this folded link, again, assuming that it is not a gen, would fool me. And I think that would be quite an accomplishment.......assuming it is not a gen, which, based on the last set of pictures, I kind of think it is. Just out of curiosity, can someone post a link to the seller of these folded link bracelets?

Yes, exactly what I wanted to see. From this picture I draw 2 conclusions -- If this is not a gen, it could fool me. This is the most accurate aftermarket bracelet I have seen. If this is a rep, I would have no problems fitting it to a vintage gen watch (assuming the engravings were correct for the model & I did not want to spend the cost of the gen). At least based on what I see in the pictures.

Hard to tell, but since the only people who will probably ever see the red gear are you & your watchmaker (who will easily ID the movement as an ETA with or without the red gear), why pay extra for it?

What I see in your pictures is obviously not gen, but it would still help to see pictures of the insides of the links as that would make identification easier. Still, if these folded link reps are made better than the riveted rep bracelets, they might be a good alternative for vintage reps that come with rivets. When buying gens (especially Rolex), always buy the seller before you buy the part.

If the US Dept of Agriculture can declare that ketchup is a vegetable then I hereby declare that my frankentona is a Daytona Whatever it is, this is what I will be wearing as I give Heinz a couple of firm smacks at dinner tonight. Hope everyone had a good weekend.

Interesting. Can you post some pics showing more of the inside folded links as well as the inside of the end links? From this pic, your NOS bracelet looks different from links on gen bracelets, & I have a feeling the same will be the case for the end links, which may make it relatively easy to separate the wheat from the chaff when perusing ebay & other sites in search of the gen article.

April 17. 2008

There is a good reason for purchasing from RWG collectors & this is it.

After reading your other post on this subject, I cannot help recalling reading many (many) similar complaints from buyers (not builders) of PCs, especially in the early years where a PC was nearly obsolete by the time it hit the sales shelves. Virtually all of the modern PC's improvements & technical gains happened because 1 modder was trying to outdo another modder's work, which ultimately resulted in the modern PC we all use today. And I see many parallels with rep watches, where many of the mods that are 1st seen in frankens eventually make their way to production watches. If you compare the best modded reps of 5 years ago to today's cream-of-the-crop commercially-made reps, I think you will see what I am talking about. To paraphrase Mao -- The taste of change is sweet for those who eat the mature fruit, but sour for those who get stuck with the seeds.

Anyone know what gen GWs are selling for these days?

You might start by reading some of the pinned articles at the top of the Rolex (& watchmaking) forum that describe how to mod Rolex reps. Then use the Search feature to locate additional articles & tutorials as needed. Post here with specific questions.

You can save yourself alot of work by purchasing a basic case & movement from ofrei (or most other parts houses) & then modifying the watch to meet your specifications. Starting from scratch will be much more costly & will gain you very little.

Like the others, I agree with alot of what you said. But, to be honest, my head was nodding (in bemused disagreement) as I tried to rationalize your Top 10s in the overall context of your general conclusion -- that you are 'moving on' & selling off most of your reps because you find the downsides (imperfect designs, serial obsolesce, poor cost vs long-term value, etc.) overshadow the upsides (did I get that about right?). Your decision to sell most of your rep collection reminds me of the old line about 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater'. Commercially-made reps are, by definition, replicas, which contain built-in inaccuracies that deviate from the design, quality and/or function of the gen watch (or watches, in the case of many Rolex reps where variations may exist) they are based on. At a significantly reduced cost, they can & will never be an exact copy of a gen (although some of the better frankens come frighteningly close). But a select few of the highest quality reps (those that come close enough to fool the general public or average gen owner) allow watch collectors to own & enjoy a number of watches that would otherwise be inaccessible to them. And I have always assumed this is common knowledge? No? So, if you buy rep A & then, 2 weeks later, Smokin' Joe shows up with rep B -- an even nicer version (based on whatever gauge of nice you use), why should that come as a surprise? (Did you do your homework & visit the AD to try on & familiarize yourself with the gen watch before purchasing rep A so you know what the inaccuracies are?) Obviously, rep A contained a set of inaccuracies (vs the gen) that were later addressed by rep B. And there will likely be a future rep C that addresses still more, making rep B obsolete. And the process will likely continue until it is no longer physically or financially possible to produce improvements without charging gen prices. And this is the way it has always been in the replica world. At least in the 20+ years that I have been collecting watches (both gens & reps). I completely agree with you that buying gens makes more long-term financial sense than commercially-made reps since reps have no real value, at least not to the general public (outside of our relatively small community), and some gens (especially the likes of Rolex, Patek, Vacheron, etc.) are likely to increase many fold over time. But, on the other hand, as the prices of select gens increase, it makes more & more sense to consider high quality reps as viable alternatives or daily wearers. So instead of making a break with reps, why not just readjust your goals to factor in both reps & gens as the case merits? That, to me, makes alot more sense.

Think positive, follow doctor's orders and, above all, hang in there!