freddy333

Interesting. Can you post some pics showing more of the inside folded links as well as the inside of the end links? From this pic, your NOS bracelet looks different from links on gen bracelets, & I have a feeling the same will be the case for the end links, which may make it relatively easy to separate the wheat from the chaff when perusing ebay & other sites in search of the gen article.

April 17. 2008

There is a good reason for purchasing from RWG collectors & this is it.

After reading your other post on this subject, I cannot help recalling reading many (many) similar complaints from buyers (not builders) of PCs, especially in the early years where a PC was nearly obsolete by the time it hit the sales shelves. Virtually all of the modern PC's improvements & technical gains happened because 1 modder was trying to outdo another modder's work, which ultimately resulted in the modern PC we all use today. And I see many parallels with rep watches, where many of the mods that are 1st seen in frankens eventually make their way to production watches. If you compare the best modded reps of 5 years ago to today's cream-of-the-crop commercially-made reps, I think you will see what I am talking about. To paraphrase Mao -- The taste of change is sweet for those who eat the mature fruit, but sour for those who get stuck with the seeds.

Anyone know what gen GWs are selling for these days?

You might start by reading some of the pinned articles at the top of the Rolex (& watchmaking) forum that describe how to mod Rolex reps. Then use the Search feature to locate additional articles & tutorials as needed. Post here with specific questions.

You can save yourself alot of work by purchasing a basic case & movement from ofrei (or most other parts houses) & then modifying the watch to meet your specifications. Starting from scratch will be much more costly & will gain you very little.

Like the others, I agree with alot of what you said. But, to be honest, my head was nodding (in bemused disagreement) as I tried to rationalize your Top 10s in the overall context of your general conclusion -- that you are 'moving on' & selling off most of your reps because you find the downsides (imperfect designs, serial obsolesce, poor cost vs long-term value, etc.) overshadow the upsides (did I get that about right?). Your decision to sell most of your rep collection reminds me of the old line about 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater'. Commercially-made reps are, by definition, replicas, which contain built-in inaccuracies that deviate from the design, quality and/or function of the gen watch (or watches, in the case of many Rolex reps where variations may exist) they are based on. At a significantly reduced cost, they can & will never be an exact copy of a gen (although some of the better frankens come frighteningly close). But a select few of the highest quality reps (those that come close enough to fool the general public or average gen owner) allow watch collectors to own & enjoy a number of watches that would otherwise be inaccessible to them. And I have always assumed this is common knowledge? No? So, if you buy rep A & then, 2 weeks later, Smokin' Joe shows up with rep B -- an even nicer version (based on whatever gauge of nice you use), why should that come as a surprise? (Did you do your homework & visit the AD to try on & familiarize yourself with the gen watch before purchasing rep A so you know what the inaccuracies are?) Obviously, rep A contained a set of inaccuracies (vs the gen) that were later addressed by rep B. And there will likely be a future rep C that addresses still more, making rep B obsolete. And the process will likely continue until it is no longer physically or financially possible to produce improvements without charging gen prices. And this is the way it has always been in the replica world. At least in the 20+ years that I have been collecting watches (both gens & reps). I completely agree with you that buying gens makes more long-term financial sense than commercially-made reps since reps have no real value, at least not to the general public (outside of our relatively small community), and some gens (especially the likes of Rolex, Patek, Vacheron, etc.) are likely to increase many fold over time. But, on the other hand, as the prices of select gens increase, it makes more & more sense to consider high quality reps as viable alternatives or daily wearers. So instead of making a break with reps, why not just readjust your goals to factor in both reps & gens as the case merits? That, to me, makes alot more sense.

Think positive, follow doctor's orders and, above all, hang in there!

Very good work. Is the movement gen (1570) as well?

Not reliable.

After spending the day being extra careful not to dent the Daytona (I just noticed that 1 of the pins in my gen springbars broke & the springbar popped out of 1 of the lugs -- sometimes new (aftermarket) parts are actually better than the damned vintage part), I am on my way out the door with the beater in search of a burger. The beater gen Triplock crown & tube working Helium valve gen 93150 bracelet & NOS 580 end links CGs shaped to match a DRSD on doubleredseadweller The burger (veggie) TGIF

I wore something special today in honor of the 75th anniversary of the game of Monopoly, which was invented this day in 1933 (And thanks to Mezzanine for the nice background) (And thanks to the Neanderthal for the nice background)

I have never seen an aftermarket folded link, but I have seen a number of aftermarket Rolex numbered endlinks. Still, not sure about those? Nanuq??

Not the most elegant solution, but I use simple wood & glass watch cases with cubbies for 4-5 watches on top & 3-4 watches in each of 1 or 2 drawers below Mine is a few years old & came from bedbathandbeyond.com. They have a similar model, but with an oddly convex glass cover (mine is flat on top) here for about $30 (about

You got that right. Someone on TZ recently replaced his 1665 end links & posted a receipt from a Rolex service center in Texas showing the price for new 580s being something like $75. I cannot remember the exact price, but I do remember that it was unexpectedly low & quite reasonable, which was especially noteworthy considering what these things go for on ebay (and I say that speaking from direct personal experience).

I am pretty sure 285s were spec'd for the 9315 & used on early 1665s. But I think these end links were designed for a case with lug holes, so the cut-outs in the bottom of the 285s in the seller's picture may hint to the bracelet being an aftermarket part. I am not sure about this though.

Your point is well taken & I did notice the lip on Andrew's case. Could present a problem, or it could not. I faced a similar problem with another watch which was easily remedied with a small (and I mean small) bit of dremeling around the inside of the caseback. And you never know (for sure) until you try. I am not quite ready to gamble $288 to buy 1 of these watches, but if another member has a dead 1 (with the flat caseback) that they no longer want, please PM me.

A new member wanted my opinion on Andrew's 'meteorite' dial Daytona (ROLDYT0006 - Daytona 2006 Meteorite Grey Dial SS Band- Asia 7750) & sent me a link to the site. Rep 'meteorite' dials, like rep 'diamonds', have never quite been my cup of tea, so I was not expecting much when I browsed over to check this watch out. Boy, am I glad I did, because, low-and-behold, this otherwise unremarkable watch is fitted with the final lost chord for 1165xx Daytona reps -- a properly flat (and brushed) caseback. And, as a bonus, this caseback appears to have the nice deep & pronounced, gen-like notches to fit the Rolex tool, which is another first for these casebacks Here is a gen 116520 caseback for comparison And, wait, there is still more -- there is a slight possibility that this watch has the infamous, gen-like thin case. Unfortunately, I cannot accurately gauge the case thickness from Andrew's pictures, but if you look closely at the point where the end links fit against the very edges of the lugs, the end links appear to have a slight hump or rise to them just where they attach to the next link in the bracelet (red arrows). My original thin case 116520 has end links that fit like this, because the end links are a bit too thick for the thinner case -- the end links on current 'fat' case Daytona reps seem to fit flush along the bottom of the lugs, because the case is the same thickness as the end links & the end links lack that hump. I did a quick search through a number of other Daytonas on Andrew's site (as well as Josh's), but all of the other Daytona models are pictured with the same (incorrect) beveled caseback. This model appears to be the only 1 with the correct flat caseback. The $64,000 questions are whether the watch actually comes with this caseback and/or whether Andrew can get (and is willing to sell) these casebacks separately? $288 is alot of money just for a caseback, but I suppose when you consider that Phong is asking $450 for his DRSD casebacks, it may be a bargain.

click here

click here

The end links look to be 285s

Aside from the incorrect end links, I wish he had less suspicious (blurry, distant) pictures. That is the only thing (aside from the 0 seller history) that really bothers me about this. But, from what I can see, it looks like quite a find for someone. I wonder why he is selling it?

Ziggy -- Thank you for taking the time to take & post the new pics. These shed new light on the subject & only enforce what I thought already: Gen movement (impossible to tell whether the bridge & plate signings are original or were added by someone like Phong without having the watch appraised by Rolex, but I will be positive & assume the movement is 100% gen), NDtrading dial & aftermarket case/caseback (lug scratches aside (scratches can be added in a matter of minutes), the engravings between the lugs look, to me, to be of recent vintage). Since a watch fitted with an aftermarket dial would be rejected outright by Rolex, why not do the next best thing - post a few of these pics of the watch on TZ & poll some of the experts there for their opinion. If Dowling & a few of the other senior experts give this watch the thumbs-up, that would be good enough for me. Ziggy, are you game?