freddy333

Only the owner (or modder) of the watch knows the origin of the case. I can only guess based on the known sources of aftermarket cases (NDtrading being the most popular). What I do know for certain is that aftermarket cases for these watches are plentiful on the web & the gen watches are not. So, based on the discrepancies, I tend to assume the worst until proven otherwise. I think we will all know more if Ziggy can measure the case & post pictures of the model & serial numbers between the lugs.

POTR -- I think Repaustria was saying the same thing I am saying about the case -- there are alot of aftermarket Milgauss cases available, making the likelihood that this is 1 of those all that much better. Because of the rarity of these watches (very rare), I take the stance that it is a fake until proven otherwise. And based on Ziggy's pictures & description, the only thing I am convinced of, at this point, is that the movement is a gen Rolex movement (which was available in many Oyster Perpetuals of the period).

Dial is $480 from NDtrading right here And here is the $1,100 NDtrading case (click the image for the link) The caseback either came from another rep watch or someone else has a similar case with 6541 markings.

These pictures were posted on the zone a few years ago

Ziggy - I remain convinced that this is a franken (only gen part is the movement). But knowing the case diameter (minus crown) might help. I believe the gen is 37mm.

Ziggy -- I agree. It is a neat watch & I would love to have 1. But if you consider how easily some MBWs & Viet Nam-made cases accept gen parts, it does not surprise me that someone found a gen movement to fit this case (or modified the case (as most DW modders will attest) to make it fit the movement). Seek & ye shall find.

I suspect the case is a standard rep case & the owner (or modder) just spent a bit of time rubbing some end links against it to create the wear pattern between the lugs. The rest of the case did not look genuinely old to me, but I hear that Nanuq has a wonderful collection of coins available for 'aging' a case should it require more 'patina'. This is just a standard franken, like many of us do here. Since the movement was frozen, I would hazard a guess that the owner purchased the watch from someone like Phong or he had the work done for him by an independent modder.

Yes, I have never understood why they do that, but they always get at least 1 (usually simple & obvious) thing wrong. The idea that they do that purposely makes alot of sense when you see 1 of these (or Daytona dials).

Beater Monday

The dial is not a redial, it is a newly made aftermarket dial. Nothing gen about it. Here is the NDtrading 6541 (look familiar?)

I do not have any pictures of a 6541, but here is a gen 6543 From the movement picture above, it looks like the movement is gen (this movement was fitted to mid-50s Oyster Perpetuals) & may be correct for the 654x Milgauss, but the case is aftermarket, which translates to a franken. If you compare this case to Ziggy's, you can see that the cases differ in their thickness & in the way the stem is cut through the side. The only movement described for the Milgauss in Dowling's book is the 1580, but he only shows the inside of the later 1019 version. I have a few other pictures of Milgausses in my archive, but they are all the same as the 1 above. So my conclusion remains that the movement is gen & probably correct for this model, but the dial & case are both aftermarket, which makes this a franken.

To the best of my knowledge the Milgausses were fitted with a 1580, which is an anti-magnetic version of the 1570 with 1 extra jewel (I cannot remember where the extra jewel went). And unless you did a dial & case restoration, I would guess that it is a franken. But I am better with 1019s than this model, so I will check my photo archives to see if I can find a movement picture of that model & update this.

MeisterSinger N

That bench looks like a great find, unfortunately, I'm no longer in Motown.

I guess it is a good thing I checked in here before I made a mad dash out to Columbia this afternoon (I was on the other side of the world & would have had to 'fly' to make it to the GTG). This is the 3rd DC area GTG that did not pan out very well (1st was a year ago at Tysons mall & I was the only person who showed, 2nd was at White Flint mall a couple of months ago, but only DuDro & I showed up and this 1, which was canceled at last minute). May I suggest the next GTG be held at the same location as the 2nd GTG -- White Flint mall, which is centrally located within Baltimore, DC & NoVA. The mall is easy to find/get to (located right on Wisconsin Ave/Rockville Pike/Rt 355), it is rarely crowded (by mall standards), there are plenty of nice restaurants to meet at (PF Changs, Cheesecake Factory, Dave & Busters, to name a few) & there is always plenty of free parking within feet of any mall entrance. I would also recommend posting the initial announcement for a GTG in the General Discussion forum since more people would see it there.

1601 today (currently strapped)

It sounds like the movement is just in need of an overhaul (cleaning, lubing). Many 'new' reps contain used or improperly serviced movements. But what do you mean by 'Winding does nothing'? Do you mean the stem does not appear to be turning the gears when you wind it, or do you mean it winds but winding does not make the watch run? In the 1st case, there is a mechanical problem & the movement is probably not worth repairing (replace the watch). In the 2nd case, the movement needs an overhaul.

No. An appraisal by Rolex is the only fool proof way of determining authenticity. Anything else is a best guess, at best. Especially when you cannot physically open & inspect the watch/movement in person. Others will probably offer additional recommendations, but I would say the things I suggested should be considered the minimum requirements for making an online Rolex purchase when you are buying from a stranger (especially a stranger without any posted sales history of similar watches) & Paypal or some other 3rd party escrow service is not available.

Ken may be right & this could be a (good) legitimate deal, but my gut tells me otherwise. A diamond Daydate for $2,900? Poppycock! At the very least, I would not do anything without first seeing good, clear pictures of the movement and/or an original bill of sale or last service invoice (showing the serial number, which must match the serial number between the lugs (you need to remove the bracelet to see this)) by Rolex. What I see does not give me any warm fuzzies in my tummy.

If you prefer solid state & CD/mp3 over tubes & LPs, you will probably prefer quartz over mechanical, and for similar reasons.

Yes, but he posted 3-4 pics like these (each containing a different portion of his Daytona collection - it would take me forever to find the other pics in my archives) And for those who are unfamilar with this guy, his Daytonas are ALL gens & he must have close to 100 of them, including a number of vary rare pieces

For the newbies or uninformed, anyone interested in a truly sick Daytona collector, search out 'Zane' on TZ's Vintage Rolex forum & be prepared to hurl chunks (but in a good way).

Original, unmodded 6263 from DW & the 7835 from Andy (timeman.net). Both guys are highly recommended.

Marshall (late 60s Lead), yes. Thanks.

Something musical for TGIF