freddy333

Hi Randy. Yes, I thought of that too, and it may be another option. I do not really know enough about plating or precious metals in general to know what the difference is, if any, between the appearance of rhodium and white gold. I have read a few debates on watch forums about what Rolex uses for the white gold Daytona -- is it 'white gold' or 'rhodium' or some in-house mixture? But since Rolex refers to it as being 'white gold', I just thought it was safer to try to plate my rep with 'white gold'. As usual, when it comes to Rolex and reps, a seemingly simple question often becomes a complicated puzzle.

Many thanks for that (I (probably) would have figured that out eventually). Another dangerous site. I have a feeling I will be spending some of my rep money there.....

Yes, I have both the SS and white gold rep models, but when you see the gen watches side by side, the difference is pretty noticeable. At least to me and I have heard the same from others. I know it is a relatively minor detail compared to some other things, but alot of modders like me go to great lengths to try to replicate every last detail. And after spending alot of effort to change things like crowns and crown guards, which in my opinion are less obvious give aways than the difference between white gold and stainless steel, I just want to cover all the bases.

I have never heard of that? Do you have a url?

Has anyone ever had a stainless steel rep plated with white gold? If so, can you tell me how the finished work turned out, who did the plating, what the cost was and if the gold plating held up over time? Some of my recent reps (like the Daytona) are so accurate that the stainless steel material they are made from is their weakest link and the thing I worry about most when wearing these watches. And since many of us here routinely dismantle our watches for mods, it seems only logical to take the next step to have the cases plated while they are apart. And the beauty of white gold, unlike yellow or red, is that if the plating comes off, the metal below (stainless steel) looks so similar that no one would ever know and the watch will not have to become a door stop just because it got scratched a few times.

You can Search for the brief review I did last month of the 116509 from Joshua (I think it is in the Dealer Reviews section). The morning after the review was written, the watch died -- stopped running. Joshua had me send it to his watchmaker in China and it came back a short time later, packaged well and in perfect working order (so far). I have 2 other 116520s and 1 is 2 years old and, other than the 'twitchy' seconds hand (they all seem to have this), no problems at all. But I should also say that I do not wear these watches very often. They were purchased more as jewels to be looked at than to be worn. But I do wind and run them (including the chrono for 5-10 minutes) regularly, at least once every month.

Please excuse my ignorance if this sounds silly, but could you use a high quality ink jet printer and print the dial on a CD/DVD label (they come in either gloss or matte finish, peel off and self-stick, and once applied they do not come off)? You could reprint (2 or more times) over those parts that need to be raised and then apply lume as needed. When complete, just peel and stick to a dial blank. With a scanner and photoshop, I would think you could copy and reproduce any dial exactly.

Looks perfect. When did your DW arrive (I am still waiting for mine)?

As long as you are aware of the potential problems with these movements, I would get the watch and enjoy it. I have 3 Daytonas that have the same movement. One is 2 years old and runs perfectly. I do not use the chrono often, but it has always worked when I have. The only one that caused trouble was the last, which I got last month. It just stopped running on day 3. The dealer (Joshua) told me to return it to his watchmaker in China and it arrived back less than 2 weeks later, very well wrapped and looking exactly the way I sent it -- except that it works again.

Daily Beater: Rolex/Comex no-date Sub Dress Casual: Patek Calatrava Grande Taille in Pt with white face and black leather strap, or Lange 1 in Pt with silver face, or Audemars Edward Piguet Tourbillon in red gold (sorry, cannot pick just one) Sport: Rolex Daytona (116509) WG with silver face Dress: Vacheron Les Essentielles Patrimony in Pt Vintage: Rolex 'Paul Newman' non-Oyster Daytona with black face and bezel on black leather Rolex strap

1. I have actually had more ETAs die than 'cheap' Asian movements (though I have also had many more ETAs than Asian movements).

Don't worry. The US Postal Service often cannot track a shipment coming from China until it reaches your local post office. In my experience, this usually occurs 7-10 days after "Your item was accepted in CHINA....". The day the tracking page updates, it will probably be delivered to your door. I know it is hard, but just be patient.

I was always told never to touch either type of spring with bare hands due to the likelihood of rust. But if you have not had any problems, then I guess things must have changed. Good to hear. Thanks Rob.

Thanks Pugs and Ubi.

I think it is mainly email itself that sends Bob off the deep end. He makes you jump through all sorts of chutes and ladders before he is even willing to accept an email from a customer. It has been my experience that he will usually respond if you follow his lengthy instructions to the letter. Usually, he refers callers to one of his subordinates (who often end up as relays, having to ask Bob for answers to callers' questions). But, to be fair, I have had a couple of very helpful conversations with him on those occasions when he was the one that answered the phone. And I have also had a couple emails similar to yours and one that had me wondering if it wasn't copied from the back of a Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap bottle (and anyone who is familiar with Dr. Bronner's knows we are talking MAJOR WEIRD here).

Thanks Rob, I will check JB for winders. Do you wear gloves or finger cots when winding springs by hand?

Thanks, Randy, I was going to ask you about the cost of that El Primero. I have been considering following in your footsteps for a future 16520 project. I have an unrelated question -- Would you consider using a similar El Primero for a Newman Daytona or just the 16520?

Just to head off another potential misunderstanding, the big selling point to MBWs (and similar) is that they are able to be fitted with genuine parts with little or no modification. These watches, while they are some of the more accurate reps available, are still not 'perfect', '1:1 or in any way an exact copy of the real thing. They are reasonably well built and can often accept many genuine parts, which makes them the best for modifiers to use as a starting off point. That is all. I know it sounds like a cop out, but you will save yourself alot of headaches (and costly buying mistakes) if, before you buy anything, you select one specific watch model and learn as much as you can about the real thing. Go to a dealer and try watches on. See how they look and operate. Believe me, the time you spend learning about the genuine article will pay for itself when you start comparing reps. Even the best (unmodified) rep looks and feels different than the real thing. And the only way to know a good rep from a bad one (or which inaccuracies you can live with and which you cannot) is to know what the genuine article is like. Once you are familiar with the real thing, learn as much as you can about the dealers here, the variations of the models each dealer offers (in some cases, there may be a dozen or more different variations of the same watch model, each with different pluses and minuses (and a few with a mixture)). It is good to ask questions, but you need to educate yourself so you do not end up asking the same basic questions that have been asked and answered countless times before (answers for which are accessible by way of the Search).

Rob - Is there a universal mainspring winder for ETAs (mainly 2836-2 & 2846) or do you have to purchase a separate winder for each ETA model? And can you recommend a source to purchase a winder?

Alligoat - What is the problem with the bezel that you cannot remove it?

I think that is a very good idea. I think that most of the dealers here do that anyway. Check their FAQ or Shipping Instruction pages for their policy regarding lost shipments. If it is not clear, email the dealer and go from there. Over the years, I have seen many rep dealers that advertise their watches (or parts of them) as being 'solid gold' or some other description that infers the same thing. Have you checked the price of gold recently? The point is that the dealer's cost for a solid gold bracelet would be far more than the retail price the dealer is charging for the entire watch. You should also beware that terms like '1:1' or 'Perfect' or 'exact copy of the original' or anything else that suggests a replica is an exact copy of the genuine are just marketing (subjective hyperbole). All commercially made replicas have errors and inaccuracies that can be identified if you know what to look for. The number and type of errors are what separate the best reps from the worst. And most of the dealers here offer at least some reps within their collections that are very good.

Ken -- I do not live in TX either, but I have been very satisfied with both the watches and service I received from Andrew. The DJ is a very good first rep, but I would recommend getting an all stainless steel (SS) model without gold or jewels. CZ 'diamonds', at least the grade used on most rep watches, tend to look cheap and fake (to be fair, I think the real diamonds on gen Rolexes make the wearer look cheap and fake). And, with very few exceptions, the 'wrapped', 'plated', 'vapor-deposited' (or whatever the sales pitcher comes up with) gold usually doesn't look quite right; and, either way, it WILL wear off in a matter of weeks or months, depending on how the watch is worn and cared for. And once the underlying metal below the thin layer of gold becomes visible, the watch is virtually useless as-is (unless you want to advertise the fact that you're wearing a 'fake Rolex'). The more 'plain jane' the watch, the easier it is for the rep makers to faithfully replicate the original design, and the less likely it is that your watch will be 'outted' as a fake, replica or whatever you want to call a non-genuine Rolex. My first rep watch, purchased more than 20 years ago (which I still have), was a TT (two-tone - gold and SS) DJ with a beautiful brushed gold face (it was a rare model in the early 80s and I don't think I have seen a rep like it since). It was also one of the first to be fitted with a Swiss-made ETA movement instead of the usual (at that time) Japanese or Chinese movements. The first thing I did was to hightail it to my local Rolex dealer to buy a replacement bracelet buckle and TT end pieces (the small metal pieces that fit between the bracelet and the watch body). The addition of these small items made a big difference in closing the gap towards making the watch look (and feel) like the genuine DJ in the store. (Later, Rolex figured out that people like me were buying parts from dealers to fit to rep watches and stopped selling parts through dealers. Pity.) Unfortunately, within a few months, the 'heavily plated' gold on the bracelet and bezel (the ring that fits around the crystal) began to wear away. So I threw the watch in a drawer and never wore it again. About 5 years ago, I tried another TT, but with the same result. (I actually do have a couple of (non-Rolex) gold watches, but these were purchased to stare at (because of their beautiful design) and not to wear.) Good luck and congratulations on your entry into the world of reps.

Kurt: I could be wrong, but I wonder if you may have removed a bit too much material on the inside of the CGs? Otherwise, they look like what I would expect a vintage watch to look like. My sub's currently in pieces, but here is a not-too-old photo contribution to the forum .

Hmmm... Reading your comments, it just occurred to me that I don't think I have ever had a Miyota movement fail. Keep poor time, yes. Feel cheap and cheesy and make alot of racket when you interact with them, always. But fail, no. And about half of my ETAs have failed within the first 2 years (often within a few weeks or months). In fact, right now I am wearing a Comex Sub that has been ticking flawlessly (and noisily) for more than 5 years. Odd but true.

Two options: 1. If you are looking for the most accurate (as in most closely approximating the appearance of a genuine Rolex Sub), then I would recommend a trip to your local Rolex dealer before doing anything. Look at all the Subs (from all angles), try them on and compare them to other models (there are alot of really great watch brands and models out there that most people don't even know about). Then, take a quick look at the offerings from the dealers listed on this site just to get an idea of what's out there and to test your ability to detect the differences between a rep watch and the real thing (often, especially for a new buyer, the differences can be small, but as you learn more, a minor inaccuracy today can become a painfully embarrassing wart tomorrow). Then--and this is VERY important--take a trip back to the Rolex dealer and look at the Subs again. When you get home, check out the Rolex website and compare the images of real Subs to the images of the reps. Believe me, not doing this FIRST is the biggest mistake a new buyer can make (and I speak from personal experience here). Once you know what the real thing looks like (and the old line about God being in the details was never more true than when comparing rep watches!), it will be much easier to spot the differences between (and inaccuracies of) ALL replicas; and you should then be able to choose the best watch for YOU. 2. If you are looking for something other than accuracy, then just spend time browsing ALL of the dealer's listings for Subs (note that some dealers list vintage models separately) and choose the one that jumps out at you. You will know it when you find it. Happy hunting.