RobbieG

IWC today. The bracelet is always just so comfortable. Plus being that it is Ti I hardly know I even have it on despite the piece being substantial in size...

The blue looks nice. Hey, if you don't mind me asking what dealer are you ordering from that can't seem to ship the watch you order? BTW, if a delaer is DSing it is easy to see a picking error by the lacky as many of these reps with good AR can look a different color in certain light, obviously.

Bucherer might be the most underrated Swiss watch for the money. If anyone is less than familiar check them out. I have met the guy as he comes to town here where I live - has a home here. Interesting guy. The richest guy in Switzerland I think and if it wasn't for him there would be no Rolex. Anyway, I have been checking out the more complicated Patravi Chronograde lately. All that for like 10K or so. I just can't belive it every time I see it. A Perpetual calendar big date flyback chrono with power reserve for ten grand or so. I almost want to get it because I don't know how to justify NOT buying that much of a complication for that price. Fit and finsh for the line is great too. Congrats on getting a CB. Here is the Chronograde version for anyone not familiar:

Yes, and keep in mind the PDF itself is not protected so you can save it as a permanent file on your machine direct from the linked page.

Yeah, I'm thinking of getting a new Sub soon just for that reason. Unlike the 16710 I think will actually wear it and it looks like a good investment for all the old style Rolex watches. End of an era...

I have given your question a lot of thought and made these same choices many times for my own collection. Here is what I came up with. If you are willing to look at new pieces in that price range I think Breitling wins hands down on value for the money. Their ETA based movements are just that and anything but stock. World class fit and finishing for a song. I also think buying these at deep discount outside the AD's if necessary is prudent. To me, the reason for paying a bigger price at an AD is reserved for peices that I always want to have access to the factory because they have in house movements not everyone can work on. Plus, the likelyhood of a 7750 or 2824 Breitling breaking inside the warantee period id unlikely - and if it did, the warranty from a top three online retailer will suffice as they can source whatever parts to fix it. Anyway, that said, a Steelfish can be had for $2200 or so and if you get the bracelet version, changing to leather or rubber turns it into a whole new piece. Three watches in one. IMO, The Fish is the absolute best new watch value for two grand - period. The Skyland is similar in versatility and gets you in at $3500 if you want a chrono. For versatility reasons I would go with the black dial version for either of these The PO would be a great runner up for $2500 or so and offers nice versatility with the leather and rubber as extras too. the Coaxial escapement 2892 is nice for service reasons, but while this watch is REALLY REALLY nice for the case, the Fish is still higher quality by far to the touch. I'm trying to be objective as I can but that is my true opinion owning both watches If you want to stay outside the "norm" and go up a notch in percieved class the IWC Aquatimer series is a great choice - also if you want to push the limit of your budget. On a bracelet, you can get into an AT for $3900 or so for non-chrono and $4300 for the chrono for either the steel or Ti version. Although I have to tell you, and this may shock a lot of people, but these watches simply arent as well made as either the Fish OR the PO. The AR and lume are also both VERY MARGINAL. They are nice and prestigious and really cool looking, but the fit and finish of the case, bracelet and movement don't match the Fish or PO. The bracelet though is the best design ever IMO and the most comfortable of the lot. Anyway, I said a lot that may surprise people but I still love the watch. The cool factor is just so high that I forgive it's shotcomings. It also isn't my only watch and I wouldn't own it if it were going to be. But I still think it is a good value for the money so I mention it here I know it is out of your price range, but if you can swing it, there is no cooler watch for the money in almost every way than the UN Maxi Diver. The fit and finish is just so amazing that you can't even BELIEVE it when holding one. Just levels everything in its class and I own many of its competitors so that is a completely objective comment. If I were going to spend $4K as you said, I would just save up another grand and get one of these if it were going to be my only gen for a while. Hands down. Retail is $7500 on bracelet and $6900 on rubber, but they can be had for around $5300 and $4900 respectively. Easy for me to spend your money, but if you want my honest opinion you have it as I carefully considered and ended up owning all of the watches I mentioned - and I still do and wouldn't consider getting rid of any of them (which is saying something as I am fickle). But if I were you and I had to choose one, get the UN MMD or get a Fish as they are each the best sports watch in their price class.

This is and invaluable resource to anyone interested in learning more about mechanical timepiece movements and its parts. The author deserves a medal for taking the time to put this together. I hope you all get as much out of this as I continue to. http://people.timezone.com/mdisher/WatchSc...tedGlossary.pdf

Cool, so solid casebacks then? No movements? Here is my contribution...

I love the "ghost" chrono hand...

All Asian IMO. Even the new so called generic 6497's that DSN has with the waffle pattern on the bridges look a little ratty to me. Tourby, who specializes in 6497's has said recently that he thinks ALL of these including the generic and non-brand with PAM style bridges including those on ebay are fakes. And of course he is pretty tied in with the SOPROD factory and all the other know supply house sources for the stocks that are surely genuine. Ever since the ETA autos started showing up as fakes with fake stamps, etc. alot of people are thinking that the old so called 6497 hybrids are also no more and those are all Asian too now. Maybe, maybe not... Not to get too off point but I have to say I never really understood the hybrid PAM concept for these other than that it allowed dealers to charge more money for the watches. LOL. I mean all the stuff that really matters in the movement was known to be Asian (balance, regulator, co*ck, hairspring) and yet people paid extra for supposed Swiss base plates, wheels & pinions. Wouldn't one prefer it the other way around? I guess it depends on what was supposedly Swiss and what was supposedly Asian in the movement but it still always seemed a little suspect to me. If they were truly Swiss I never understood why the Asians wouldn't have just replaced the barrel bridge and the wheel bridge with the PAM style bridges and the just manufator the appropriate swan neck assembly to slip directly on the balance [censored]. Go figure...

Nice Pug. Cool DOF effects...

I believe Chad's is a 756 which is 40MM. My 757 is basically the same watch but with a rotating bezel. That watch the same dial size so the bezel just adds to the size outside the dial in a pure sense that way. The bezel version is 43MM.

Nice. I have a 757 myself. The tegimented steel is really cool. Great ETA based watches for the money. Some people find the dials to me busy with all the white ticks but I think what they offer in uniqueness makes up for it. Until B&R, nothing really looked like a Sinn. Many Bell & Ross fans are unaware of their history and early partnership with Sinn which is of course very obvious when considering the dial similarities. I for one am not a B&R fan mostly because I feel the square design serves no purpose and is mostly uncomfortable though I'm sure many would disagree. I just feel there are much better choices if you want a large aviators watch. Anyway, Sinn does the trick in that department for sure and for a fair price. Enjoy it!

Don't forget to go to Bytors watch reviews section and check out the Noob version he reviewed from Chris (Eurotimez). I think it is the same version that BK sells pre-modded though. The watch is from the Noobfactory which is known to make one of the best out of the box Subs ever. Happy hunting.

It is a Maxi Marine Diver 42.7MM version with rhodium dial which you don't see as much as other dial versions for some reason. Here are a couple more pics of it including one of it next to a DJ for scale...

Nice. I especially like the FM.

I always enjoy shooting pics of dials. I like looking at them even more. So...let's see some dial close-ups guys. I'll start... ...and another crop of the mighty Avatar image...

You are making me confirm that I want to grab a rubber strap for mine so I can have some variety with the bracelet. Can anyone tell me if the rep rubber is 1:1 with the gen as I would rather not spend $400 if I don't have to...

Well you will still have to do research on this site as well. Search the dealer forums & find a few you like and ask them what versions they sell. They will send you links to Photobucket albums, etc. where you can compare pictures of the watches. By searching you will also find posts from members and reviews and you can use those to compare to pictures of the genuine watch on your own. Most dealers should be able to source any and all viable versions of TT Subs. I'm not sure but there are probably only two versions or so worth considering and they will each hae their own but different flaws. You also might ask one of the modder/dealers like BK what he thinks or maybe someone will chime in here. FYI though, without real gold the weight won't be accurate - although with hollow center links the TT Subs aren't really so heavy to begin with. All the case sizes and second hand sweeping will be accurate from any dealer here. Even the cheper Asian movements are fine. That is just standard automatic mechanic movement stuff. There will be ETA versions of the watches as well - although some of the ETA's latey have been found to be counterfeits of ETA movements. They will still be of higher quality than the cheaper Asian movements though. The crowns will vary but are all probably close enough for what you are looking for. Some Rolex reps will even accept genuine parts.

MMD for Labor Day...

Before you get lynched, let me throw you a bone as I did for another guy this morning James. There are no shortcuts to finding th ebest Sub or any other watch... You have found a site with a wealth of watch information and watch experts, both for replicas and genuine watches, but as such there is no shortcut to the knowledge base here and you will get no respect from the members unless you earn the knowledge for yourself. Every site on the net has norms, and believe me, I'm not vouching for the ones here, but it is what it is. Every one of us has had to earn the knowledge for ourselves by using the search button. The wealth of info here is staggering. So start with a brand or watch you like and search away. You will quickly and efficiently find your way to the best and worst in its class. Your question is valid but then again it isn't. There are just too many watches, versions, movements, factories, etc. Some of us who have been around for a while (read old in some cases!) have been around since 2006 and still haven't come close to figuring out your question. So sit back, relax and browze for hours. You will find what you seek. And the members will open up and be more friendly when they see that you have been around a while, "put in the work" and start asking more specific questions. As and example, let's say you had already done some searching and decided that you might like to purchase a Breitling Skyland Avenger. You had learned that there were some different options and even two different versions available. If you were to then ask the membership which version they though was best I guarantee you that you would get some very specific, helpful and passionate answers. But they have to see that you know something about what you want first. So pull up a chair, start typing and welcome to RWG! QUOTE (joint05 @ Sep 1 2008, 02:47 AM) hello friends! i looking for the best reps. the should not discriminate to gen. just prefect reps. who know some?

Let me throw you a bone my friend, you are being messed with. You have found a site with a wealth of watch information and watch experts, both for replicas and genuine watches, but as such there is no shortcut to the knowledge base here and you will get no respect from the members unless you earn the knowledge for yourself. Every site on the net has norms, and believe me, I'm not vouching for the ones here, but it is what it is. Every one of us has had to earn the knowledge for ourselves by using the search button. The wealth of info here is staggering. So start with a brand or watch you like and search away. You will quickly and efficiently find your way to the best and worst in its class. Your question is valid but then again it isn't. There are just too many watches, versions, movements, factories, etc. Some of us who have been around for a while (read old in some cases!) have been around since 2006 and still haven't come close to figuring out your question. So sit back, relax and browze for hours. You will find what you seek. And the members will open up and be more friendly when they see that you have been around a while, "put in the work" and start asking more specific questions. As and example, let's say you had already done some searching and decided that you might like to purchase a Breitling Skyland Avenger. You had learned that there were some different options and even two different versions available. If you were to then ask the membership which version they though was best I guarantee you that you would get some very specific, helpful and passionate answers. But they have to see that you know something about what you want first. So pull up a chair, start typing and welcome to RWG!

Ubi you always remind me that the status quo is pretty much where it is at. How lucky you are to have such a...ubiquitous collection... PS: The pearl on your Sub makes me happy...

This is why I love it here and I come here first to learn about genuine watches before going to a genuine watch forum. Knowledge about watches - starting with the gens which are repleicated is obviously the most important place to start in this hobby. And this post will prove to many that there is always something more to learn that was not already known. Fantastic post. The more of this type of thing we can get here the better. Bravo.