panerai153

I believe that the only way to find one with and aged,faded bezel insert is to either get one (watch) that's already been aged from a member on the watch sales forum, or buy a new one and replace the shiny balck insert with a genuine faded insert. There are always inserts for sale on the Vintage Rolex Market. I never saw a new rep come witha faded insert.

You are going to need to use something that is very thin. One of the problems with the paper overlays is the added height. Not a problem with some watches, but with ones that don't have much clearance between the dial and datewheel, you have problems with the datewheel hanging up and not changing properly. probably using waterslide decals would be the best solution. At one time, I sent a couple of paper overlays up to Ziggy to use on a 1680 project. He wouldn't do the datewheel exchange, said that he had had lots of problems with the date hanging.

Try to find a set of genuine 580 Endlinks, Best fit, 2mm springbar s and will make your watch look so much better. Come up for sale occasionally. Check Ebay and Vintage Rolex market.

Guys, Thanks very much for the positive comments. First off, the photos don't in the least show the beauty of this dial. It is really nice. From what I can tell, it's and almost perfect example of a mark IV DRSD dial. If I can get some better dial photos I will post them. As to the origin, I bought it from a fellow member who purchased it from another member, who if I remember right said it was one of the closest to genuine dials he had ever seen. the only fault of the dial in it's original state was the indices@ 6 and 9 were a little too thin. It was relumed by the Zeigmeister, and it looks like he solved that problem by making the indices a little wider. The first time i saw the dial was when I unwrapped the completed watch a few days ago. I have the utmost faith in the two members who recommended the dial, and I promise you, I wasn't disappointed. As to the movement transplant, Ziggy would have to chime in on that, I really don't know what had to be done to accept the 1570 movement. However, I don't believe it required any major surgery. Someone asked about the HEV? This is the Ziggy "faux" valve. It is non functioning, but the positive is the case is not drilled through, so a potential water ingress point is eliminated. Another asked about selling on TZ or Ebay.First the dial is not genuine, it's and aftermarket dial (Redial on a genuine blank) A genuine DRSD dial in good condition would have at least doubled and possibly tripled the price of the build. A genuine NOS service 1665 caseback recently sold on Ebay for 4200.00 USD!!!! So you can imagine what a good genuine dial would sell for? It's not 100% genuine. To answer that,even if the dial were genuine, I know it's a franken, and that's enough for me.I have been buying, selling and swapping watches for over 40 years, genuine mostly, but a fair number of reps the past 8-10 years, and I would never sell a watch without full disclosure. If I put it on TZ or Ebay and said it was an aftermarket dial/ case,My sales thread (Ad) probably would get canceled. With most of the sales of watches on the genuine forums and Ebay, you have to depend on the integrity and honest of the seller. It's virtually impossible to discern a genuine from a rep at this level with the quality of photos that you generally see on Ebay, so your only protection is the seller telling you the truth.I wouldn't want anyone to pass off a franken to me, at genuine prices,and conversely, I would never do it to anyone else. And last, It was a fair amount of money, but to me it was worth it. This is a watch I wouldn't hesitate to wear anywhere. I believe that I could wear it into 99% of the Rolex AD's in the USA, and not have to keep my hand in my pocket. I don't think that any of the Rolex folks around, unless it was and older person who had handled lots and lots of 1665's, could tell you that this one wasn't a genuine DRSD. And hell, if they wanted to open the back, who cares, it has a sparkling clean 1570 movement inside!!

Well, when I last posted a thread about my DRSD, I was still torn between a genuine movement and a 2846-2. After a lot of soul searching, I decided to go all the way and find a 1570 for the watch. I will tell anyone who is looking to do one of these almost all genuine ( I'm not going to call it a super franken, because it still has an aftermarket dial) It is not for the faint of heart!! Collecting all the parts is a time consuming project, fraught with all types of problems. Also the more you know about what you are looking for, the better. Also don't be too hasty when you buy and for goodness sakes read everything in the sales ad. Here is a case in point. My first 1570 came from a fellow in Germany, bought on the Vintage Rolex Market (VRM). In my haste to get the movement, and also the sellers limited English created a real problem. He clearly said in the ad, fits a 1016. What he did not say was it was a non date, built specifically as a non date. I got the movement in, sent it up to Ziggy and several days later got the "bad news" email. Can't use this movement, it's a non-date. Almost impossible to convert a 1570 non-date to a date. lots of expensive parts!! Long story short,i found a buyer for the 1570, and bought another 1575 (Date model). Sent it up to Ziggy and although it was dirty and required a service, it worked. So from a beat up MBW with no insert, badly scratched T-39 crystal, emerged a really nice very usable 1665. Lots of folks ask, "what did it cost"? I'm including a spreadsheet that lists the exact cost and description of the part. I blacked out the names of the seller, as I'm sure most don't want to be inundated by requests for parts. most of these were one off that and individual had for sale.I was fairly fortunate tin that the MBW 1665 I bought for a more than reasonable price, and it already had a genuine tube/crown and T-39 Superdome.I feel sure that there are a lot of members who have over the years, cultivated suppliers and stockpiled parts, who could do this project for less than It cost me. What I believe the spreadsheet does is give the average Joe out there some idea of what a project like this will cost.One of the biggest problems with these projects is the unexpected, that's why patience rules. Everything is rocking along fine, and then the last part you need is not to be found, or someone on Ebay has what you need, but they are asking twice the price you had budgeted. You have to be able to put the project aside and keep looking for something in your budget range.When I was putting this together, I went to the parts forum on RWG, VRM and Ebay every day, looking for the things I needed. Another thing everyone who undertakes a Franken project like this should ask themselves is this project feasible. we had a very good discussion about this very thing last year. Most felt that the cost of the project should be not exceed 20% of the price of a comparable genuine watch. So to use this rule of thumb, a DRSD would have to be selling for around 17,000.00 USD to justify the project costs that I incurred. That's probably within the feasibility range for this project. Conversely if you spent this much for a Red 1680 project, you would probably be up in the 30-40 % of genuine range. So when you decide to undertake a project like this, first thing you should decide is how close to the real thing is this project going to cost. Another thing you HAVE to consider, once these projects are completed,you better like the watch, because selling one is very difficult. We have supposedly 25K + members on this forum, but when you get into this type of project, the interest pool shrinks to a handful.I would expect that a very large number of these projects that end up on the sales forum are eventually parted out to recoup some of the costs.I would bet very few end up sold as and intact watch. Remember this, It's still a replica!! No matter if it consists of 95% genuine parts, it is still a rep. Because of that, if you are honest and ethical, most avenues for sales are closed to you. You cannot sell it on VRM,TimeZone,Ebay,Etc.Your only sales venue are the Replica forums. Enough talk, here are the photos. First is the price spreadsheet Before restoration, as received from previous owner Yesterday!! :thumbsupsmileyanim: Sorry about some of the photos. It's very difficult to get good dial photos with the T-39 Superdome. Its so reflectiver, it's hard to get good dial detail. I'll keep trying!! Also I wore the watch all day and it was a little dirty, but Heck, that's what they are for. I didn't build it to put it in the safe.!!

Freddy, Thanks very much for the info. Problem with these reps, who knows if the genuine crystal will fit. Not sure what the OD is of the genuine. I've been trying to find a reference that has the OD and ID of Rolex crystals, but thus far to no avail. I suppose the only way is to take this crystal off and use good a good calipher to get the measurements. It's possible that some other crystal would be a closer fit than the T17 for this rep. Thanks again,

I'm trying to find out some info about the Tropic 17 and 19 Crystals. According to the rolex reference sheet, the Tropic 17 fits models 5510,6200,6538,7924 and the Tropic 19 fits models 5512,5513,6528A. 6540. Searching for a Tropic 17, but they seem to be as scarce as "Hens Teeth" and expensive, while the tropic 19 is more readily available. On one of the other Rolex forums, a member stated that the 17 and 19 are interchangable, the 19 is however taller. Is that correct? Are the two the same OD, but the 19 is taller? Thanks very much,

Check the sales forum. They come up for sale all the time.

If you are suspicious,heed your buddies advice, if he is knowledgable.Otherwise,you need to have them authenticated. I would take them to an older experienced Rolex watchmaker, someone who has worked on lots of vintage watches. The prices are OK, but not super bargains, especially if it turns out the dials are not genuine. Probably at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the value is in the dials and hands. Look at the vintage forums and see what a good quality Red sub dial is selling for.Remember one thing, there are lots of these floating around. I would bet that there are at least 3-4 1680's (Red & White) and about the same number of 5513's for sale just on the Vintage Rolex Market, every day.So it's not like you are trying to find a 6358, or 6542. They could very well be completely authentic and OK, but at the price the seller is asking, you don't want to find out after the fact that the dial is a nice redial. Inserts are plentiful and not terribly expensive, so if the insert is aftermarket, It won't break the bank to get a nice one.Dial and hands are another story! I would have thought that the inserts would be "Fat font", although there are lots of older subs and SD's around with service replacements that use the thinner fonts.

Actually,I believe that he "Polex' only applied to the 1680/5513 Cases.Ii don't remember what the 1665 has stamped (Engraved) between the lugs. Actually there are quite a lot of really good high quality photos of 1665's on the forum, take a look at Freddy's. He has some great photos. Mine should be back from Ziggy just any day now, so I will look as well as post photos.

It doesn't look like my old MBW. A few photos from other angles would help. Possibly the markings between the lugs have been ground off, but usually folks don't bother with something like that. Hard to tell about the crown from that angle,

there does seem to be and almost inexhaustible supply doesn't it? I would imagine a fair number are parts that are recycled. I buy a couple of inserts off VRF, use one and sell the other, plus my old insert, if it's still serviceable gets sold as well. It would seem to me that there must be some parts "leakage" somewhere. don't know where though. Another potential source is older retired watchmakers who have hoarded parts for many many years. They decide to retire, and the old parts, many probably NOS get bought up and ultimately end up on the sales forum.

Thanks very much sir. I have been searching for a replacement crystal, I see a lot of tropic 19's but no 17's. It looks like the 19 was used on the 6538A. I have been all over the internet and can't really find much difference between the two except that they were beefing up the 6538 to give it more water resistance. Read a bunch about the 6538A on Stefano Mazzariol's blog, but not much side by side comparison info. Of course we are talking about a relatively obscure group of watches here. Certainly not around in the numbers like the 1680's and 1665's.

Bye Bye!! Gone and soon forgotten :thumbdown:

I know my friend, just don't know if it would fit, or if i can afford it!!!. Probably of no help, but the OD is 38.46mm. Original Scope was the owner and did the mods. "This watch came from Mary and was my first mod. It has a clark crystal,aged dial,hands and bezel. It has a swiss eta" It's starting to grow on me, very comfortable and light, although I can see that the "bathysphere" crystal has to go. Actually it will go one way or the other, because i'll probably knock it off if I don't change it. I agree about the Bond strap Freddy. It looks nice and it's sure comfortable, but I have tried cloth straps before, and around here, in the summer, you need about a half dozen of them, as they get sweaty and dirty so fast. Mine get washed almost every day in the summer, otherwise your wrist starts to smell like the inside of a 15 year old's tennis shoes

That is a great watch. :thumbsupsmileyanim: I really like theTudor 7922. Where did you get the dial? One of the nice things about the Tudor as opposed to a 6538, is it's "below the radar". Lots of vintage Rolex folks know enough about hte 6538 that they would recognize it, but if they saw a tudor dial, what the heck,just another one of those Tudors. I tried to get one of the Yuki 7922,s but they must have only made a few, and they are now discontinued.

First you will have to order thru a dealer. Factories sell to dealers not to individuals. Second you need to read the reviews on the watches you are looking at. narrow your search down to 3-4 specific brands and models, such as Rolex 16610 or Panerai 063. Type those into search or go to the respective forums and read the reviews. You are asking questions that are too general to answer, as all of the various models from different dealers have pluses and minuses. You just need to figure out what deficiencies you can live with and chose that watch. None of them are perfect, some are very,very close however. If you want perfection, the only option is a genuine.

I agree with Hike 100%. You better order a case of replica Valium when you buy a watch. While it is completely safe to own replicas, there is always a chance for seizure by customs coming into the country. While that happens only a tiny fraction of the time, it does occasionally occur. What is going to drive you crazy is the wait!! Depending on where it's shipped from and the method of transportation, time with the good Ole USPS, etc. it could take from 7-10 days up to a month. You need to ask yourself, is my personality such that I can endure a wait of 3-4 weeks without going nuts? Another thing about the dealers, most are really good about communication with customers, but none of them are going to answer three emails a day from a customer about "where is my watch"? Another option for you would be to look for what you want in the sales forums of the various rep sites. If you buy a used watch from a member, first of all it is running, so more than likely the DOA problems aren't going to happen.Second most of the guys here are pretty good at taking photos, so you will have good clear photos of EXACTLY the watch you are buying. Also if you are in the USA, and buy from other members here in the USA, you avoid all the hassles of customs and overseas shipping. USPS Priority mail is cheap, and you will have your new watch in hand in 2-3 days.

That is exactly the point I was trying to make, just what you and Ronin said. If you visit the genuine forums and occasionally buy and sell there, you are asking for trouble if you use the same name, avatar, etc. Buyers are always asking for references, or they will start a thread, " Does anyone know Joe Shmo from Kokomo, on WUS, for example. He's selling a Breitling Chronomat that I'm interested in"? All it takes is one guy to write," sure I know old Joe, he deals a lot in replicas over on the rep forums". Guess what, you might as well pull that sales thread, because none of those guys will buy anything from you.No matter that the watch is genuine with all the papers, boxes, etc. Your credibility is shot. What we have always maintained here is the best way to stay out of trouble is to "Fly below the radar" as much as possible. There is no way to monitor the traffic on the replica websites, no one knows for sure who is here looking around. Better to be safe than sorry. Of course if you never buy or sell genuine watches,parts or accessories then you could probably care less what they think. however you never know when you might see that part that you have been searching for for months show up on one of the genuine sales forums. Why take a chance?

I spend a fair amount of time on some of the genuine forums, mostly looking, but I do have a number of genuine watches, and it's nice to see what's going on. Also they do have lots of good photos of genuine watches, which are useful for reference. While reading through the threads on the forums, i occasionally see the same names that I see over here on RWG. I think that if you use the same name here and on the general forums, you are taking a chance. I would suspect that quite a few members of the genuine forums visit this and other rep forums, sort of "nosing around", looking at what is going on, checking up on the latest replica watches, and possibly checking on who is posting, etc. Most of those folks aren't stupid, and if they see names that are appearing on their forum as well as RWG, they may put 2 and 2 together. Unfortunately for the RWG member, the name may be coincidental, and belong to a different person, but you could be "guilty by association" The consequences could be that your name is circulated around the genuine forum and no one would sell to you, or if you tried to sell parts, watches, etc. you may have problems. One thing to remember, most of those folks don't have a "live and let live" attitude. they hate replicas with a passion, some are such purists they scream if someone sells a watch with any aftermarket parts, even if it's clearly stated in the sales posting. I would think that to be on the safe side, i would have a completely different user name, with no connection whatsoever to your name on the rep forums. Maybe I'm overreacting, but it's always better to be safe than sorry.

I've been asking a lot of questions about the proper parts for my 6538 project. Not going to do much, as my recently completed 1665 project busted my watch budget for a while!! I am planning to replace the crown with an NDT 8mm (this crown is around 7.94mm, the NDT measures a full 8mm) replace the insert I prefer the inserts with no minute markers between 1-15. Springbar holes need to be drilled out, and I am planning to replace the movement with a 2846-2. Also I may get the dial plots and hands relumed to a a little less "wabbi". That's about it. i do have a question about the crystal, does it sit up too high? It sure looks awfully high to me. Here are a few photos I took today.

Thanks Freddy, I'm looking for a silver triangle w/ lume dot. I'm going to post pictures of my watch a little later today. Weather here has been too nice and the yard work needed doing first.

Trying to get some parts ready for my 6538 project. The insert that came on the watch is not correct as it has the minute markers from 1-15 minutes. The original has no minute markers at all. Yuki has the correct one on a case set, but won't sell it as a seperate part. NDT has one, but from the photos, the pearl looks horrible! Anyone have any other ideas, or has the NDT and can chime in on the qualty? Thanks guys

A genuine ETA 2836-2 should be a drop in replacement for a cloned 2836-2. Any of the watch repair folks on the forums could service your genuine ETA movement. You may be able to find a local repair person who would work on it as well. Certainly not anyone who has anything to do with Rolex NA however. Independent watchmakers may or may not work on it, you would just have to ask around.Some of them have and aversion to replicas, others don't care about what's written on the dial, they are just interested in the movement.

If you are looking for a vintage used insert, go over to the Vintage Rolex Forum (Vintage Rolex market) there are always guys selling inserts over there. They aren't cheap, but it will be genuine and will work.