panerai153

Lani, You are truly one of the "Good Guys" Not too many folks around who are willing to take a chance on "paying it forward". My hats off to you my friend Regards Arthur

Mighty fine looking watch. Hollow link or tropic would both be winners. Wear it in good health. Arthur

Lani, You need to send this beauty to me for about a month of wearing around the farm. The case and Crystal will be well "vintigized" I promise. Beautiful watch. Would you expand a little on what parts you used to build this one. Thanks Arthur

By-Tor, I stand corrected. I was getting the CHS and the WHS interchanged . After deciding to by a GMTII A few days ago,I searched the forum for 2836. Lots of posts, and the thread by Zigmeister with all the photos. I went back and read Zigmeisters review of the 2836-2. Unforttunately, I got called away from my computer and didn't really read the article in depth. I do remember that when the first 2836 GMT movements came out there were some folks who reported problems. Possibly the reason was they were the CHS models, or the modifications today are much superior to the first attempts.I do remember too that a lot of the complaints were about the GMT hand not keeping correct time. losing time over a period of time. Of course what you said is true. It may not function properly as a GMT, but that problem didn't affect the basic watch functions. My question and possibly you can answer this is, why don't the rep manufacturers "clone" a 2893-2 movement? It's a true GMT and the Swiss ETA versions are pretty durable.Is the problem just not enough demand for GMT reps to justify the tooling costs? Arthur

To add to The Zigmeisters explanation, there have been quite a few threads started on this and other watch forums about the 2836 as a GMT movement. If you will look through some of these you will see some pretty graphic photos of the "baling wire and duct tape" methods that the rep manufacturers use to make the 2836 into a GMT movement. Forget sophisticated Modules that are used by genuine manufacturers to add on complications to a watch movement, these are crude attempts to make something into something it isn't. Back in 2006 when i started buying reps and participating in forum discussions, the 2893-2 movement was available. It was more expensive, but most of the rep sellers offered the 2893-2 as an alternative. I had two very nice PAM reps ,a 029 and a 063 I believe, that both had 2893-2 movements. They were great watches, kept good time and had a flawless GMT function.As the 2893-2's became less and less available, the rep manufacturers switched over to the 2836-2 with the GMT modification. Almost immediately post started popping up on the forums about the GMT hand not working, watches stopping, etc. The Zigmeister in one of his posts fairly early on, expressed his frustration at the obvious poor guality and "unfixability" (Is that a word!) of the modified 2836-2 movements. In fact he stated that he would not work on the movement. If you want the watch, buy it. I have one coming in myself with the 2836-2 modified ,it's supposed to be a genuine Swiss ETA movement. Plan is, wear it and see what happens. If it craps out, i'm hoping that a 2893-2 movement can be swapped out. If not it's a paperweight. Just My Dos Centavos Arthur

It's strange that there seems to be so much trouble with ETA movements in Reps. I have and I know other members have, low to mid range genuine watches with the Swiss ETA 2824-2 movement that work without problems for years. I agree with Preacher, if the watches are the same ( case, crown, crystal, hands, etc.) buy the cheap one and when it stops, drop in a genuine Swiss ETA and keep on going. It (the clone) may last for a long time, or it may quit in a month, who knows. When you drop in the genuine, you should have a reliable watch for a long time. Just my Dos centavos Arthur

Preacher, You are correct, i forgot completely about the TT and Gold subs, I was focused on vintage stainless steel subs. My bad. Movement would work with anything, dial would only work if you were building a Franken TT or Gold, correct? Arthur

I think the dial is suspect? What model has a gilt dial and white gold surrounds on the indices? If this is supposed to be a "Bond" sub dial, it's not correct. I'm no Rolex expert, by a long shot, but I can't remember any late model Subs with gilt dials. Certainly stand to be corrected if I'm wrong. Arthur

Is the crown correct for this model? i went to the Eurotimez website, and they show several views of the 6538. Why did I think this model had the "Brevet" crown? What other problems do es this model have that need correcting? Obviously from the photos, the hands don't match the indicies, sio they would have to be "aged to match" This looks like a great model to do the "Dishwasher through 2 cycles or shaking the case inside a box of rocks for a few minutes. Needs some dings, nicks and a few crystal scratches as well as the hands redone.Any advice apprreciated. Another question has anyone ever done a rep of the gilt dial sub with the brevet crown. Thanks Arthur

You have and order number which shows up on your "Order history" Go to the order page i.e 900-999 and click on your number. Mine is order # 927 and hasn't appeared on the order page yet. As of today they are showing orders thru 916. Arthur

Tech, I find it very hard to tell. It's almost imossible to tell if the watch is directly face on or slightly slanted. also because of the thick crystal, how much is distortion, especially around the edges. Maybe you can tell better than I can, most that I looked at don't look slanted, but maybe my old eyes aren't seeing clearly! The watch I ordered hasn't appeared on the order page, so I can't say for mine. Arthur

It looks like quite a few folks on this forum have ordered the V5 "updated" DSSD. Others are curious as to how the different watches posted in the "orders" section look. I had tried, with various degrees of success, to open the individual order photos. It was always pretty hit or miss. Some would open, others no luck. What I stumbled on quite by accident was this.After you log into your account, the XML screen appears, it's slow, but eventually it will load. click on full screen up in the right corner. When the screen goes to full screen, click on "orders" in the drop down menu on the left. Select the number range,i.e. 900-999. click on the number you wish to view. It should load immediately. Works fine for me on both my home computer and the one at work. Hope this helps Arthur

Helina, These prices must be retroactive for at least a few days. When I ordered mine with the genuine ETA, it was 418.00 less the RWG Discount of 15.00 = 403.00. That order was placed on the 11th of November if i'm correct. That was the website price at the time. Not a problem, but I never saw a lower price. Arthur

Interesting article. The lecture information is obviously Way out of date! I remember buying a copy of the "Rolex Report" several years ago.What I found was most of the reps that were used in the book were terrible reps even for the 2006-07 era. I believe that Mr. Brozek made a couple of runs down to Chinatown in NYC and picked up a selection of Rolex Reps from street dealers. Even back then, there were some pretty good reps floating around, but certainly not like those of today. I have been a rep collector off and on for several years, had some really nice ones, some pretty crappy ones over the years. The best back then in my opinion were the MBW/ watchmaster vintage models. Even them, to make them "Right" took a darn lot of after purchase work, and a fair amount of money. Wasn't anything to have over 1K in a 1680, and that wasn't putting too many genuine parts in it at that. Today, the reps we are seeing are scary accurate. Reps are fooling experienced watchmakers, watch dealers and certainly the general public. Therein lies the problem. And I believe the reason The watch industry is doing everything in its power to stamp out counterfeiting. They are truly afraid of the reps today. They are too good. How many of you fellow RWG members would buy a Rolex on Ebay? Probably none of you, unless you really trusted the seller and had and ironclad guarantee of authenticity, with a solid return policy.But we are the experts! How about the thousands of uninformed watch shoppers who troll through Ebay every day looking for bargains. They are like lambs being led to the slaughter by POS dishonest sellers who think nothing of selling a 300.00 USD Rolex rep for 3-4K. Used to be the dead giveaway was the late model expensive watch on Ebay with no box and papers. Always a variation of the story, " I got this watch as a Christmas present" I bought it from a guy who got it as a present, we moved and the box and papers were lost" We all know that no one throws away the nice box and all the papers including warranty card that come with an expensive watch. Run, don't walk away from this deal. We don't have that protection anymore. Anyone can get on the INTERNET and buy a Box set and all the papers, including a fake warranty card, and all the supporting paperwork. The folks who pass off a rep as genuine are our worst enemies. Not only are they despicable and totally dishonest, but they bring a huge amount of attention to the world of reps in general. I'm with Dempsey. This lecture could be condensed into about 2 minutes of advice to dealers, pawnshop staff and watch buyers. 1. Get yourself some quality case openers. 2. open every case and make sure the movement is genuine (This isn't going to protect you from Frankens and Parts watches), but it will protect you from about 99.9% of reps being passed off as genuine. And for the other .1% they are probably going to be very high end watches that have been altered to increase their value. Probably the area where this occurs is with Rolex watches that are "upgraded" to be passed off as a more desirable model. would expect that if you are circulating in the rarefied air of top end watches, either you become very knowledgeable or you hire someone who is. I would expect that if you are going to spend 50-200K for a rare vintage watch, your going to be damn sure of its provenance. My feelings are Reps are reps, genuine are genuine and never the twain shall meet. Just my dos centavos Arthur

Morlock, Looks really nice and vintage. Certainly a nice job and it really looks well used.It certainly took a leap of faith to put your watch in the washing machine for 2 cycles. Obviously the reps are getting more water resistant. Several years back, water resistant in a rep meant that you could Probably run through a light rain shower and not flood the watch. I think what a lot of folks don't realize is that back in the 1960's and 70's these watches were everyday wearers. They were certainly not "safe queens".In 1969 I bought a 1680. What we call a "Great White". I bought it new for 500.00 USD. The dealer had a 1680 Red Sub as well, but I liked the white dial better. He told me that when the white dial version came out, he couldn't hardly give the Red Subs away!! Go figure. At any rate, This watch was my daily wearer for probably 10 years. at about 7-8 years, I sent it to Rolex to be refurbished, as it had gotten really dinged and banged up. the crystal had so many scratches, you could hardly tell time.Of course when it came back it looked brand new. It took me another couple of years to get it "vintigized" again. I was running my family's Cattle and farming operation, so I was in dust, mud, diesel, Cow Sh*T and everything else imaginable. When I dressed up for church or to attend a meeting, all I did was give the watch a good scrubbing with soap and water. That's what everyone did back then. I finally got caught up enough to buy a nice S/S Datejust to wear as my "Dress" watch, mainly because my wife complained that my old sub was too ratty to wear in public! Wear it in good health. Arthur

Man,That watch is just begging for the Pepsi Insert! I have a genuine 16750 with a nice original faded insert, and it is probably my favorite watch. I don't care for the black insert at all. LOVE THIS ONE

I agree with Rosnik, gert the WM9 16610. It will solve most of the problems that your rep has right out of the box. Later if you want to replace parts with genuine, I.E Insert, crystal, crown/tube, you will have a case to build on. You can probably buy one for close to what the genuine bezel/inset costs. With your watch, replacing the bezel/insert only solves that problem, but doesn't address the crystal,crown CG"S and dial. Most of which are much much closer to genuine in the WM9 version. Just my dos centavos Arthur

If you had one of those in the condition that one is in, you could pay off your mortgage and probably have a bit left over! that is a rare piece. i would suspect finding one of those would be a long and very, very expensive process.

Tech thanks a lot. Would it be possible for you to post a photo, in this thread or possibly as a new topic, showing what your talking about. If you have a good front on shot of the slanted writing vs correct it would be a tremendous help to all who have purchased and are contemplating purchasing the "upgrade DSSD v5 Arthur

If they are not a member of the "collectors" forum. on RWG, I would run away from them as fast as your legs can carry you. There are enough problems , wrong watches sent, poor communications, emails caught up by Spam blockers. etc. with the regular trusted dealers,so buying from some site you "Googled " up is a recipe for disaster. Honestly, most of these sites are total scam sites. they come on the scene, last a few weeks or months and disappear, only to reappear under a slightly different name. Do yourself a favor. BUY LOCALLY!! just my dos centavos Arthur

geigerz2001 Go to the Eurotimez home page. in the middle of the home page a flash player window opens up when you open the page. on the left side is a menu click on review center. then click on DSSDv5 -review. photos (9) will open up click on them to enlarge. this will answer quite a few of your questions. From the information i and others have received from Neo @ Eurotimez, the version that will be shipped now is the one theuy are labeling in Green as the upgrade v5. Very good side by side comparisons of Genuine, "Best/Ultimate v5 and "upgrade v5 Hope this helps Arthur

Nanug, I'm going to help Lani out a little here with a couple of hints! 1. When did US Divers logos start appearing on Subs? 300 or 300T 2. Look at the hands then look at the indicies,different? colors You have a really nice watch, too bad someone did what they did. The problem as every Doxa collector has encountered is the total unavailability of parts. Doxa obviously didn't plan for their watches to have the survival rate that they have. Actually, I believe that Doxa got caught in that terrible time in the Swiss Watch industry when Cheap Japanese quartz watches almost killed the mechanical watch industry in Switzerland. Doxa sought the protection of the Synchron Group that was formed to try to save some of the Swiss brands. Synchron Struggled during the Quartz revolution and was finally bought by Aubrey Freres. During that time, Doxas were redesigned and upgraded, but often with the result that all of the spare parts were used up in making watches. Thus by the early 1980's parts were beginnning to get scarce. Remember Doxa and many small companies like them never had the financial or sales base to do things like Rolex and Omega for instance. If you own a Rolex 1680 that is within a particular serial number range, you know that the corresponding bezel, insert, crown, etc. will fit. All of the parts are serialized, and one only has to look in a catalog to find the correct part number. Doxa was constantly changing, making subtle changes, but nevertheless changes. That's why trying to find the correct bezel is such a crapshoot. A bezel that fits a 300T produced in 1967, probably won't fit one from 1969.They look the same from the top, but the diameter may be a few thousands off, or the lower ring that snaps on may be too wide. Very Frustrating! Because of all the above problems, when watches were sent in for repairs, the watchmaker was often forced to use what parts are available. So today we see obvious 300 series with 300T dials, wrong color hands, non screw in crowns on models that clearly were made originally with screw in crowns, etc. Doxa basically created a situation that forced "Frankenwatches" as a result of the lack of parts. I had two 300T Divingstars that were French Navy issue watches. The French Navy used lots of different brands as they bought on contract and as long as a watch brand met the specs, they bought. When I got the Divingstars, both of them came with genuine Tudor Snoflake hands! They were both repaired at some time by a watchmaker on contract to the Fench Navy, who didn't have access to Doxa parts, but did have Tudor parts that fit. Interesting watches, but definitely not "correct" Trying to find parts for Doxas is a very frustrating and time consuming quest. Most Doxa collectors become parts "Hoarders". If you can buy parts, you never know when you can use them or trade them to someone else for something you can use. Good Luck on your restoration Nanug, great watch. Arthur

gio, I was under the impression, probably eroneous!, that the ones that were ordered now would be the newest upgraded version. I have still not received a confirmation Email from EuroTimez, so when I receive it, I will ask them, as the one that was shown on their website as the "upgraded V5 would be the one that they were going to ship. I would rather wait a few weeks to get that one as it is decidedly superior to the "Best or Ultimate" version.I have emailed them three times and then ordered, with no communication from Eurotimez. Possibly the emails are getting caught by my Spam filter, but if they reply to my email, it will go through. What is the normal response time from Eurotimez? Thanks for the heads up. Arthur

t200 I think this is what you are looking for This is Gioarmani's review. It looks awfully close to the one that was for sale/sold Arthur

Wolf, looks like you and I are both old time, low posting members!! I'm 327, you are 338. Mostly watching not too much posting. I certainly hope that our decision turns out to be a good one. Cheers Arthur