panerai153

Randy, I just read on the Rolex Vintage Forum on TZ that the RSC's are going to start authenticating again. however the underside of the dial will be marked with a number or symbol then photographed. this will be part of the certificate. This will happen when Rolex gets it's Heritage division up and operating. the Rolex nuts are really buzzing about this, as they feel that it wil help to keep the prices of the really rarer pieces climbing, i.e.1665, 1680, Comex,5513's etc. but will possibly create a decrease in prices of later models such s 16660, 16800 and other later models that were starting to take off in price because everyone was afraid that Rolex was going to stop servicing the older watches from the 1960's and 70's.

Finepics, I had a similar situation happpen to me last week. PM'ed an offer seller accepted, I tolds him in my return PM, couldn't paypal til next morning. Time of the initial response was about 10 or 11 PM CDT. I awoke the next morning turned on the computer and lo and behold, a message, "Sorry watch is sold" Someone else PM'ed me first. First come first served,etc. Well, I know I was first, because he accepted my offer, even gave me info on where to get a replacement crystal for the watch, which was cracked. My problem with this seller is only this. If your policy is to NOT give a buyer a reasonable time to make a payment, then by all means write it in big bold letters in your return PM "Instant paymant required, I don't trust anyone, send me the money now or you will miss the sale" If that is the case, i would either pay as soon as I got the Paypal info or not say "I want the watch" Maybe I'm a little different from some of the folks on the board, but when I tell someone "I want to buy your whatever" In my mind the deal is a done deal. I'm not going to back out. But obviously the old ways of doing deals are dead, now you need two Philadelphia Lawyers and a 20 page contract to get a deal done. Possibly the moderators need to have some simple etiquette rules for the sales forum. the playing field needs to be level for everyone.

Richard, I agree with you 100%. I had the exact same thing happen to me last week. We were on vacation, drove almost all day, got to our hotel, pretty tired. Fired up the laptop and got on the forum, looking over the sale watches, and there was a particular watch at a good price that the owner wanted to sell. I PM'ed him right away with a proposal that he accepted. I was the first PM, right below the initial posting. I told him that it was late, andI would send him the Paypal payment in the morning (approximately 10 hours later),The next morning before I could send the paypal, I had a message from him saying sorry the watch was no longer available, someone had PM'ed him before me. I seriously doubt that, because the night before he accepted the offer and even gave me some information as to who I could get in touch with to get a replacement crystal, as the one on the watch was cracked. I was [censored] to say the least. I have said in the past, there needs to be some rules and more sense of etiquette on the sales forum. I had a pretty good rant about 2 years back on TRC, about people who tell you, "I want the watch", then you never hear from them again. This was certainly not the case in the above transaction. I wanted the watch, only asked for a short while until the next morning, and the seller obviously either couldn't wait, or got a better offer. I believe that we should all try to be gentlemen /ladies as the case may be, on this forum. If you want instant payment, please tell the buyer in your reply email or PM that you WILL NOT wait, the first one with the cash gets the goods. Or if you are a true gentleman, if a reliable board member emails or PM's you and says "I want the watch" I believe you should give him a reasonable time to complete the transaction. I do not think that 24 hours is unreasonable. I have sold quite a few replicas as well as lots of genuine watches on these forums as well as TZ, WUS and EOT "The Lagoon". I always allow the purchaser time to make the transaction. On a couple of occasions, I have had to email someone to remind them that the watch is on hold for them, and time is of the essence. I always email all other parties that the watch is on hold, pending funds transfer and should the deal fall through, I will notify them. Sometimes it's pretty tough when you accept a lower offer and then 4-5 hours later someone comes in with a full price offer, but that's business. Folks need to remember some of the old moral values that should not need repeating, but I will. "Your word is your bond" If you tell someone yes, that means yes, not maybe or no. A deal is a deal, unless called off by both parties. The seller above made a unilateral decision to cancel my offer and go with someone elses. I was pretty angry and upset, because this is just not the way I do business. I don't do that to others and don't expect it from others. I will not say that I wouldn't attempt to buy from this individual in the future, but I wouldn't trust him. We would have to understand each other a lot better as regards the conditions of sale before I would buy from him again. And sadly this is a problem that shouldn't even exist if all the sellers and buyers played straight and fair and showed some respect for the other party. This applies to buyers as well. Please don't PM a seller and say "I want the watch", unless you are prepared to complete the deal. Better to say, I'm intersted in your watch, could you send me more photos, will you accept this price, etc. There is no grey area with " I WANT THE WATCH" It means just what it says you are buying the watch, not That you are interested or that this is the starting point for negotiating, it means, it's a done deal, no vacillating, negotiating or buyers remorse, that time is past, when you say "I WANT THE WATCH"!! Remember the seller may have half a dozen interrested buyers waiting for you, and if you go AWOL, it puts the seller in a dilema. Generally if a seller has a watch up for sale, he has a reason for selling, he's not playing around, he needs to sell the watch. Treat him with respect and in turn demand the same respect from the seller.

I think that if you are in the USA you are asking for trouble. As someone mentioned, if you are honest, your auction gets pulled in a flash, try too many times and your account is cancelled. If you are evasive, but try to put in a few key words, or think the price of 200 USD "buy it now" will suffice, think again. Some guy will cruise through the Rolex Sub listings, hit your "buy it now" button, take delivery, tell all his friends what a great deal he got on a Rolex on Ebay, which will be fine until one of his friends tells him, "Sorry Charlie" you bought a fake"!! Then all hell breaks lose, he reports you to Ebay, Paypal, et al, and all of a sudden you are in trouble with Ebay and Paypal, as well as those nosy Rolex folks, who have a nasty way of making replica dealers very unhappy. I believe that your only safe venure for selling reps is to use the member sale section of the various Forums. Of course that means that your buying population is only a fraction of the Ebay population, but at least you shouldn't have the hassle and worry. Having said all this, I know that there are PLENTY of fakes on Ebay, but most of the obvious ones are coming from China. The not so obvious ones are the reason that most serious Rolex buyers are very reluctant to buy a genuine off Ebay, unless you know the dealer has a solid reputation and will stand behind his sale. Paying 200 dollars for a watch that turns out to be fake is one thing, spending 3-4k for a fake is quite another.

Question? Will a genuine Rolex GMT MAster II dial fit a WM or MBW GMT Master II Rep? I was under the impression, possibly false, that the WM/MBW cases were only 1:1 in the vintage ROlex models.

Absolute scam. I've had several of those types of requests from Nigeria mostly. The rub is they will use a stolen credit card, or a counterfeit cashiers check to pay you, you send the item plus 900 dollars and then you find out that the transaction didn't go through, Paypal comes after you, and the scammers are long gone. Remember well the old addage " If it seems too good to be true, it probably isn't"

Some of the folks that are doing mods have come up with a vintage lume that has just a little glow, not like super lume. i have it on my 1665 and it will glow for a couple of hours very faintly. I have a couple of Doxas from the 1970's that when exposed to very bright light will still glow a little, however my gen. GMT 16750 from 1988's lume is dead as a door[censored] that is my preference for vintage Reps, just a little glow. Firefly vs Q-beam!!

The vintage Rolex world is really crazy. Prices for genuine parts are just out the roof. Either they are spendig absurd amounts to make a watch 100% correct, or someone is hoarding parts toward the day when no RSC anywhere will touch a vintage. To really understand those guys, spend a little time on the TZ Rolex Vintage watch forum. Incredible. They talk about offering 30k 40k for a watch like I spend 10 bucks for a Pizza!! Oe of the threads last week was about Red Subs, and it turns out one of the regular posters there had photo of his "Wearing Colection" of 9 Red Subs! He said he had more, along with many other vintage Rollies, however they are locked away in a bank vault. The guy doesn't sound like an egoist, I have seen him post very detailed answers to questions posed by newcomers to the board, it appears that he has one passion in life, collecting vintage Rolex watches. Strange world that we live in Having said all this, I'm absolutely sure that if ihad the money, I would do exactly as that fellow does, pursue very high end very collectible watches. Probably good for me, I don't have the resources.

Bill, think you put this very succinctly. Fellfell, I certainly didn't mean to sound harsh or angry. However you must remember that some of us have been around these forums for sevreral years, not several days or months. We hear the same questions asked over and over again, always by folks with <20 posts and obviously not interested in doing any reading or research. I apologize to you, because you obviously have some language difficulties, just as I would if this forum was in another language. As I stated along with several of the older members here,SOME of the MBW vintage watches are very good, primarily because they are 1:1 copies (Case,caseback,crystal, bezel) and because of that they will accept genuine Rolex parts as well as aftermarket Rolex parts. They can be modded to the point that you would need to open the case back and look at the movement to tell that they are not genuine Rolex. But all that comes at a price. It is very easy to invest 300 Euros in the MBW SeaDweller 1665 or the 1680 Sub and then spend another 500-1000 Euros on genuine parts and modifications to the crown guards, case, Etc.. At that point, you have a very, very nice SeaDweller or Sub, but you have a lot of money invested and it is still a replica. You can buy a genuine Tudor Submariner for what you would spend to make a first class modded MBW submariner. Some of the other MBW models are not that good at all. The vintage GMT Master is very wrong, and is probably not a good choice if you want an accurate replica. By-Tor has written several excellent reviews of modifications of various MBW models, also Ubiquitous is an expert on vintage Rolex, and has many very good posts about vintage MBW's If you are looking for a modern Sub,or GMT, I would not buy the MBW.With modern Submariners and GMT's, the MBW is not as accurate There are several dealers here who sell those models that are much more accurate than the MBW modern models. As Bill said, buy a rep from one of the dealers, wear it a while, see how you like it, keep reading and researching and then if you really are still interested in the MBW, it will be easy to find one. Just as an aside, when i joined the first replica forum, TRC (The Replica Collector) in May of 2004, there was no one selling MBW's. I really wanted one, but they were unavailable. As soon as one would come up for sale on the members sales corner, they were sold. Finally I was able to get a Watchmaster version about a year ago, then early this summer, I got a MBW from another dealer who has since gone away!! So, it took me over one year to get the first one, so have patience. All things good come to those who wait. Welcome to the forum. Regards Arthur

Slay, I agree with you one hundred percent. If your new, you need to do some research. Read the threads, use the search function to find out about MBW, etc. None of the dealers need more grief vested on them, especially with all the problems lately with Paypal accounts, chargebacks, etc. New members need to do enough research to be able to understand the "rules" After he understands the vagrancies of the replica ordering/ delivery system and the risks involved then he should try to find the "perfect" watch for him. If a new member wants an MBW, then he can find a whole lot of info about MBW's by searching MBW. Another factor, as By-Tor states in his post, the contemporary MBW's aren't any better and possibly not as good as some of the other dealers watches. Only if he wants a vintage Rolex, and is then willing to spend a fair amount of additional money on modifications will he have a "perfect sub"!! The new member needs to understand that so that he won't be disappointed when his new MBW 1680 is delivered and he realizes that it is far from perfect. I'm a little scared of the new member who drops in and right off the bat, stars wanting dealer contact info so he can order a watch. First the reading and research and then the questions can be answered. Often the member will find the answers on his own.

I have had a fascination with watches for many years. I suppose when I wasa young adult, I began to "Accumulate" watches and other mechanical items. Watches are the epitome of mechanical minuturization in my eyes. A complication that gives you time, date day of month, week, moonphase, etc is just an amazing piece of work. My particular interest has been for quite a few years,dive watches. I dive, and the "tool watch" aspect of these rugged litle machines is what appeals to me. i have had a fair number of genuine as well as replicas. I bought my first rep in the mid 80's, from a magazine ad I believe. It was a pretty horrible rep of a Rolex, quartz movement, ncorrect everything, but it kept good time. I gave it to a friend who wore it for several years before it died. I pretty much stayed with Rolex Subs and SD's for several years. Then opened a Dive shop and handled Chronosport for several years. In the last few years, I have collected Doxa Dive watches along with an occasional Rolex. Several years ago, I remarried a wonderful woman from Ukraine, who has become a watch person too.While we were dating, I began to develop an interest in GMT's as it was nice to have a 2 time zone watch. I found that they had a great deal of utility for me both while traveling to Europe as well as being able to tell at a glance what time it was in Ukraine(Important I found after waking her one Sunday morning at 3AM, because I miscalculated the time). I have a genuine Rolex GMT Master 16750 as well as a CN GMT Master II replica. My only other replica at the present time is a MBW DRSD, sooon to be a White dial SD. Watch collecting is a "Sickness" of which I know no cure!! It is a fascinatiing hobby and one that has provided me many, many hours of enjoyment. If I had the resources, I would be dangerous, probably have a great collection of expensive vintage watches. Unfortunately, I like most of our members have to work for a living, support a family and try to feed my addiction to watches at the same time, not an easy task. Thats why my collection is small and limited to fairly inexpensive watches.

@flyback If you will go down to the bottom of this page and click on Ubi's thread. comparing a modern Sub 16610 with the Red letter 1680, you will see instantly what the problem is with the pearl/surround. The pearl on the modern subs is bigger, the outside edge of the surround overlaps the edge of the silver triangle, wheras the older 1680 pearl/surround are completely contained within the silver triangle. It doesn't seem like much, but these are the kinds of things that drive me nuts, also, anyone who is a Rolex WIS can tell at a glance that the insert is incorrect, just from looking at the pearl/surround. I'm sure that there are lots and lots of genuine Subs/SeaDwellers out there with the incorrect bezel insert/pearl, primarily because the owner sent his watch to a local watchmaker for service who did not have access to genuine Rolex parts, or the bezel insert got beaten up with everyday wear and the owner changed it and put the cheaper aftermarket bezel insert on the watch, but they are not correct for the model. The correct bezel inserts are scarce and very expensive. Just look at the prices that genuine parts bring on Ebay. I was bidding on a set of genuine hands for my DRSD 1665, the final bid was 455.00 USD, for a set of hands!! refinished dials are anywhere from 250-600. So rebuilding a MBW with genuine parts is expensive.

I would appreciate help with sourcing a good set of hands for my MBW SeaDweller. I'm replacing the DR dial with a white letter dial, genuine crown /tube and insert. AS I posted here before recently, the minute hand on the MBW SD is just not correct. The hand is too long, it's too tapered at the end, but most noticable is the width of the luminous material is probably only 75% as wide as on a genuine hand. Any help with sourcing a set of hands to fit the MBW movement would be appreciated. I believe this watch has an ETA 2824 movement. Rob told me that genuine hands will not fit the ETA movement. Thanks Arthur P.S. The photo shows the comparison between my SD minute hand and a genuine SD Genuine on top MBW below

Beautiful job. That's exactly the effect that I want on my White letter SD dial coming from George.

That's a really nice project watch. I'm sure you now have a watch that today is much more valuable than the sum of the parts bought a few years back. The NOS parts for the SM300's are drying up pretty fast, and of course as they become scarcer, the price goes way up. I bought a few parts from Watchco back at the beginning of the summer to restore a genuine SM300, and the prices according to some of the folks on the Equation of Time Dive watch forum,had doubled in just one year. The old law of supply and demand. Wear it well, the SM300 is really one of the icon dive watches, unfortunately it had many flaws that allowed Rolex to stay miles ahead of it in "usability". It is still one of my favorite dive watches. Arthur

Lots of great late model subs out there. Why would this 2005 model not have any papers yer it still is in plastic? I'm with Dutchy, pass on this one, buy from a dealer. Lots of goood dealers have late model trade ins. You will have the peace of mind that comes with having all the "goodies". Also when you decide to flip it in a few months to buy something else, having all the boxes,papers, etc. will enhance the value plus make it easier to sell. This watch is probably 100% authentic, but why take the chance. Also, he only takes bank wires, so when you send the wire, the money is gone!! What If it has problems, flaws, etc. just as an example, i saw a fellow on another genuine watch forum asking what he should do about a Doxa, almost brand new, that he forgot to screw down the crown, and the watch flooded. He was asking if it would be OK to sell it!! DUH, no, not without a full disclaimer, description of the problems and at a huge discount. He's honest, and wouldn't sell without revealing the problem, but lots of flea-bay sellers are not and will stick you with an expensive problem. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

There have been several threads recently asking about the accuracy of the replica Rolex GMT's. By-Tor has an excellent very detailed comparison and review of the GMT Master II. I am adding this as an adjunct to his great review, with some comparison photos of my genuine GMT Master and replica GMT master II. The genuine is a 1987-88 transitional model, between the 1675 and the 16700/10. the 16750 has the later fast beat movement, quickset date and the glossy dial with white gold surrounds on the indicies. It looks very much like the latest 16710 model, except it does not have the settable hour hand. With the 16750 the second time zone is read by rotating the bezel clockwise or counterclockwise the number of time zones that you are interested in. The Replica GMT Master II has a settable GMT hand. Some rep. models are available with settable hour hands same as the genuine. my Replica GMt has been modded by RBJ so it is not stock. the crown guards have been modified a new bezel insert has been installed and the bezel tightened, watch pressure tested and waterproofed, etc. I bought another bracelet, but on reflection, the one that came with the watch is pretty good. now here are the unfixables on this watch. Case: the CN watchmakers use a sub case, which is incorrect for the GMT. the GMT case is thinner as can be seen in the photos. Crown: The crown is appreciably bigger. Not a bad thing, as the genuine crown is tiny and really a PITA when setting the watch. I'm sure this could be corrected with a genuine crown, but you would need to install it at the same time the crown guards are milled. If you mill the crown guards to fit the bigger crown, the space between the crown guard and the crown would be too large. Rehault: Thinner on the genuine Crystal on genuine is acrylic, replica is sapphire, so you cannot compare the crystals as to height and depth. Genuine GMT on left in all photos, I hope this helps answer some of the questions about the accuracy of the GMT

Ubi, thanks for the accolade, but my friend, you are the expert, I'm just a student of horology studying at the feet of the master. After looking at the SM300 photos more closely, that is definitely a NOS Bezel hands and dial. Unless the watch was kept in a safe, never worn and never exposed to sunlight, the dial and hands would have a patina. Check out the lume. hold it under a bright light for 30 seconds see if it really glows. Old dials/hands that have been exposed to lots of sunlight for 35-40 years just don't glow like that. look at the photo of mine . 30 seconds under a desk lamp, then I probably took another 3-5 minutes getting ready to shoot the photos and it still had lots of glow. i tried that trick with my genuine Rolex GMT master 87 model. 1 minute under a bright light, zero glow!! @cibOrgman, What price was this watch offered to you, if you don't mind me being nosy? Arthur

That is a very nice example of a SM300. I would say that it is a NOS parts watch. Remember these were "Tool"watches from the 1960's. they were used and abused. Fortunately, up until very recently parts were plentiful and cheap. They are still available, but not cheap. I have one almost identical to yours. It's in Bienne now getting the movement fixed. Ziggy did a lot of work on it, and did a wonderful job, however these old 562-565 movements have a really quirky second hand setup. If they aren't just right, the second hand jumps like a quartz watch. Doesn'rt affect the timekeeping, but it was driving me crazy? Also mine was original, and it has a screw in crown. Omega made so many variations of the SM300, some had screw in crowns others didn't, some had the "squared off triangles" at 12 O'clock with a number at 12 some had a big triangle with no number at 12 O'clock, some have white date wheels, some have black, and then there were tons of watches that were sent back to Omega or were rebuilt by watchmakers who used available parts, which confuses the issue even more. The nice thing about these is the parts are still available, and you can send your watch back to Omega SA in Bienne, and they will literally send you a "new" watch back., along with a certificate which is as good as original papers to establish authenticity. Depending on the price, it could or could not be a good buy. But I'll tell you from experience, if you buy one that is in average condition and want to get it to where this one is, you will easily have North of 1500 dollars in the watch!! I bought mine for around 900.00 added a NOS Dial,bezel(can't change the inserts on these like you do a Rolex) Hands,crystal and bracelet. the sum of the parts was over 500.00 plus having Ziggy do all the work, brought the total for mine to aver 1600.00, but it's really nice. A final thought, the price of these watches has been steadily climbing for the past couple of years. 2 years back, you could get a very,very nice SM300 for around 500-600 dollars. the same watch now is going to cost you 900-1200 dollars.

Just to keep you all up to speed, Joe called me this morning. He told me that he is feeling better, but still has some health issues that have to resolve. He's going back to his Dr. tomorrow. Joe expressed concern about the reaction of the board members as to his absence. He told me that he just hasn't felt well enough to sit down at his computer and answer emails and visit the forums. He told me that he was working on watches, and certainly didn't have a backlog like he had when he got sick before. I think that if everyone has a little patience, your watch(s) will be ready in short order. We all have to remember that illnesses are not planned like vacations, so it is impossible to predict when they are going to strike. Arthur

Looks genuine to me. hard to fake that movement. also I bablefished his description. He had the watch serviced twice in 2000 and 2003. no telling how many times it went in for service before that. Years ago,when you sent your Rolex back to the authorized service center, they tried to replace everything they could. Back during the acrylic crystal days, a crystal exchange was part of the routine service. Also remember the DRSD has only gotten to be a "cult" watch in the past few years. before that, it was just an old seadweller, period. It is very, very likely that when it went in for service the owner was thrilled to get a new dial, crown and tube, etc, even though it would later greatly decrease the value of the watch. If that watch had been in original condition with any type of paperwork from Rolex even receipts for services, it would have fetched a lot more than 9.5k. probably closer to 15+k. As DRSD's go this is a nice wearing watch, but not one that the real die-hard Rolex collectors would salivate over.

I second(or third) Randy's opinion. Dealing in counterfeit goods from within the USA is pretty dangerous. you don't have the protection of a few thousand miles of ocean and the protection of a government that has a "wink and nod" attitude toward all things counterfeit. Secondly, you are going against the most ferocious and rabid anti-counterfeiting watch company in the world!! If Rolex SA has the brass balls to take on Wal-Mart and Sams Club over 83 grey market watches and take the case all the way to the US 5th circuit court of Appeals, they aren't going to hesitate a bit in pursuing you to the ends of the earth. If you were talking about almost any other brand, you could probably do it with a very low profile and get by, but I wouldn't take a chance on Rolex. In one respect I believe Rolex loves replicas. Everytime someone shells out 3-10k on a flea-bay Rolex that turns out to be fake, it just reinforces what they preach "you can only be certain of the watch if you buy it from an AD". Every time one of the Rolex Ebay and Watch forum snoops reads about another poor smuck getting taken for 5k on a purchase of a fake Day-Date, they probably laugh their asses off. Great water cooler conversation. But you aren't selling on Ebay, so you are a serious threat to them, as you are selling a new submariner to someone who in their mind would have bought a new genuine if your replicas weren't available.And believe me or ask some of the ollder members from the old forums what has happened to a few dealers here in the states who ran afoul of Rolex. Remember,no fish is too small to escape their net, they want 'em all. I love vintage watches, and I particularly love MBW vintage. I have a beautiful fully modded DRSD and would like a white letter 1680. I too wish they were easier to get, but it just isn't worth the risk to do it here in the USA.

Who can I go to to find a good Rolex Riveted bracelet? It seems like I read a post either here or on one of the other forums with some info on sources for a good quality Riveted bracelet. thanks for the help. Arthur

Steinhart GMT Ocean 1 Genuine. Sort of looks like a big Rolex GMT Master (42mm maybe the size Rolex should try on a few models!!)

RBJ (Joe) hasa source that he uses that can fabricate hands. You would have to check with him as to price and availability. Also i just realized that the original post said 2893-3. the GMT movements are 2893-2. I went to Ebay and put in 2893-2 and found none for sale.