Valty

You're welcome, this is the passion mate But the current info in only valid for the dials I've seen For example, I've never seen a DW dial like the Arika's one before today... The best is to "educate" your eyes and try to compare by yourself the different batches of different sellers If you have an iPhone / iPod or better, an iPad, buy the "iDaytona" app. It's the book "Daytona, a legend is born", but for 10EUR only Lots and lots of macro photos of dials... It's just perfect for comparison... and eyes education R.

I agree ! I love you batch, even if the sub-dials printings seems a little too bold But the "T SWISS T", coronet, and ROC are really good !!

I have no Phong dial in stock, but based on the website photos... : You can obviously see there is a "big" problem with the coronet & the "Daytona" engraving Side by side comparison : ### Sub-dials ### - The DW sub-dials are too shiny. Better on Phong dial - The DW sub-dials are too big. Perfect on Phong dial - The DW "T SWISS T" engraving is bad, cause of the lack of free space. Better but not perfect on Phong dial - The DW sub-dials engravings are not good on the minutes markers. Perfect on Phong dial - The DW font on sub-dials is too bold on black dials. Anyways, the font used is not good on both DW and Phong - The DW font on sub-dials is very good (crisp) on silver dials. Phong's one seems not so good (bolder). It's probably more difficult to print white on black. ### Dial markers around the dial ### - The DW markers are a WAY too bold, seems better on Phong dial - The DW markers are too short, seems better on Phong dial ### The ROC engraving ### - Too high positioned on DW dial, better on Phong - Too bold on Phong dial, I don't like it. Look at the "O" of "ROLEX", it's screams "fake" - Both have a bad font used ### The DAYTONA engraving ### - Looks very good on DW dials, and looks very poor ( a WAY too bold ) on Phong dials - You can also notice the "T" on "DAYTONA" is leaning to the left... ### The coronet ### - Depending of the batch you have, you currently can have a very good crown on DW dials - I have never seen a Phong dial with a good cononet You can notice that photos on Phong site are not necessarily updated... Maybe he have new better dials ? Phong dial will be very good without this ugly "DAYTONA" printing. Coronet is not a "big" problem, as you can change it for a gen coronet (from a cheap DJ dial, for example) Anyways, rep dial will remain a rep dial... All the engravings are too bold, and the correct font is never used. Keeping your money for a gen dial is probably the better choice after a cheap-and-not-so-bad 100 euros DW dial... My 2 cents, R.

To be honest, the DW dials are probably the best rep dials you can have for your money All the rep dials have their "faults". On the Phong's dial, you must change the coronet of the dial, and I found the "Daytona" printing too bold. And the price is very high, for a rep dial ! Does it worth the extra cost ? I think no

Thanks guys for all the comments It will work, I'm sure to already have seen that here But does it worth the mod ? I don't really know...

I'm thinking about it, but I need to protect T21 and the gen pushers... I currently don't really know how to make a good vintage happens Probably putting scotch on crystal and pushers, and put the watch with my keys and my zippo in my pocket... What do you guys think about it ?

Thanks :-) I agree on the fact that these 2 dials are really good ! The silver dial is 6 months old, and I received the black dial 1 month ago (instead of a silver one, but it was nice so I kept it ) You can notice the coronet on the silver dial is much better anyways

Hello RWG :-) This is the 2nd episode of my series, the first episode was here ! So... I have finally created my 6263 and my 6239, thanks to a great guy in France who accepted to works with my "reps" (thanks Xavier for all your help ;-)) I have made some "quick crappy photos" for sharing. Here they are ! :-) --------------------------------------------- The specs are : -- 6263 -- - Valjoux 726 movement, freshly serviced and adjusted - Old school Vietnam case, high quality here - Genuine pushers from service - Genuine 703 crown, a little used but fine - Probably rep tube, thanks to an "old" member here, who sold me this as gen . Need to be water-tested before thinking about changing it ! - Genuine new Tropic 21 from service - thanks for this same member who sold me a damaged / rep crystal as gen - DW white dial & hands - probably the best I've seen from DW, look at this coronet and "Daytona" printing ! - Replica 571 end pieces, my gen 571 are probably lost at Los Angeles postal sorting dept. - And most important, gen 6263 bezel (MKII or MKIII I think... not sure). No, it's not damaged... it's vintage There is a lot of history on this bezel ! I probably need to "vintagize" a little the case of the watch ! -- 6239 -- - Valjoux 72 movement, freshly serviced and adjusted - Phong old school case - very high quality - Phong's pushers - Gen 6mm crown and tube, I don't know the refs - Gen Tropic 21 in very good shape - DW black dial & hands - Gen 557 end pieces, because I've basically lost these gen 571 - Phong 6239 bezel --------------------------------------------- Some bezel and hands adjustments are planned, the bezels are not perfectly centered, and 1 hand is "slipping" when the chrono resets. It's not a big deal, a little of glue or some news hands are needed. Did you know that the Valjoux 72 and 726 pinions are not exactly the same size ? The 6263 hands were mounted on a v72, and needed some adjustments to fit the 726... Well, I'm quite happy to see these two new babies here, even if I had a bad deal here, and a postal loss with gen 571 and a Phong caseset, only for this month First, movement pics... you can see a v72 at the right, and a v726 at the left : Now... the case backs and side views... And now, the faces.... Again, I'm sorry for the crappy quality, this is the best I can do without the sun ;-) Misc. facts I've seen with my watchmaker : - Gen pushers makes a lot of differences with DW pushers in terms of quality. My Phong screw-pushers lost-at-post-sorting was very fine too, surprisingly - It's quite hard to find a DW dial with a fine coronet - DW seconds chrono hand have a too small tube ! Lots of slipping if you don't glue it - Rep dials have too small feet, a little of glue is needed to fix it properly - Rep cases needs some working on the length of the pushers, even if it's Phong's case - There is a world of differences between the two cases you see here, and the DW's case : the metal used is not the same, the "brushing" effect is not the same, and the DW engravings are very (very) poor - Gen 571 end pieces are not fitting DW, Phong, or any other rep cases I have ! - Rep bezels are really thinner than gen ones - The v726 is much more beautiful than the v72 ---------------------------------- Next step is to create a "Geneistein" 6265 with gen dial, hands, bezel, Phong's case & pushers, gen 702 crown, gen 7020 tube, probably rep 571, and another v726... ---------------------------------- I hope you enjoyed the photos, and have a nice day ! :-) R.

I think it will be very difficult to find or create a good replica of the 3525, as there is only few gen models on the market; and to my knowledge no custom case is available What about the 6036 Triple Date with a Valjoux 72C ? Will be much easier to do in a custom project. The case of the 6036 IMO looks like the 3525 case. You should also look to a Valjoux 22/23 compatibility (with 2 registers) with the 6036 case. Take a look on the Phong's website to see the 6036 case. If it fits, all you have to do is to find a decent 3525 dial with hands. Will probably be the hardest part :-) Oh -- all I said really depends of your budget, of course If you have less than ~ 3-4k$, go with the cartel version Good luck

Really interesting thread here -- I don't know if they will change the model of the dial, but the answer will be interesting for sure About the 16520 to 6263 dial... Yes... but it's still a 16520 dial... Do they really want to make the full transformation from an Explorer dial to a very limited dial who really exists ? Not sure about that

I was too I think But too high damn price infact... Real beauty here, congrats !!! :-) I'm so jealous of this silver dial - just impossible to find, even if it's NOS like yours Maybe yes, maybe no... nobody's know :-) Good luck... Almost impossible to find at decent prices... And the bakelite bezels are just at a ridiculous price, considering the DW's ones are not so bad...

I confirm, your crown is a 703. You can also note that the crown is thinner on a 702. Plus the fact the angles are softer / less aggressive. I hope you have not paid the 702 price for your 703... Sorry for the bad english

Bonjour de France, Stephane To be clear, there is only 5 ways to have good cases here : cartel dealers (Josh, Andrew, etc.), DW, Yuki, NDT, or Phong. I think you should consider buying a Phong's case kit if you have money, and if you do not want to bother about movement fitting. NDTrading is also selling a case, but it's IMO a bad case, like I said in another thread. I don't think DW or Yuki selling 16520 cases. And cartel do not provide any El Primero-based cases... So... I think the Phong choice is your only easy way to have a correct case : http://www.jewelryandwatch.com/ Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong Movement who are not fitting is a common problem when you are making a Rolex rep with El Primero or Valjoux 72x. Especially with El Primero, if I trust what I seen before The case you have here on eBay is a 7750 case. I guess your current case is also a 7750 case. This will never fit an El Primero R.

Oops, I have not seen the 2009 date Why bumping this thread up ? About Phong cases quality, I have bought a 6265 case 15 days ago, and it's IMO pretty amazing quality, compared to the gen. I have another 6263 Vietnam case - which is supposed to be top notch -, and it's a little step down. I cannot post photos now due to a return to the USA (engravings problem), but I will soon

I have to say that most of the time, the J&W cases are much better quality than NDT (or other) cases (according to the photos) Just look at the NDT crown guards... They are fat and wrong IMO. And I bet Phong can deliver case with gen crystal, crown and tube. Just ask him ! A complete 16520 build with El Primero, gen crown, tube, crystal, dial and hands will cost something like $5k, so... maybe it's a better value to buy a gen Just my 2 cents...

Very nice indeed

I will agree only if aftermarket parts were better. And currently, Rolex aftermarket parts are most of the time pretty bad. Seriously, is it SO difficult to make a 1:1 bezel for a 6263/5 ? Or is it SO difficult to make a "perfect" dial for Daytona ? The job is almost 90% done if we see the current dials. But no - nothings perfect, or close to it. Every time I compare a gen piece versus a rep one, there is no comparison possible. About the other watches, I can talk about Sub's for example. You are talking about inserts ? I have never seen a correct rep insert. Crystal ? The gen one still better. Hands ? Ok, Bk's ones are good. Dial too. But it's not so common to see "good" aftermarket parts. Personally, if I wear Rolex watches, I don't want them to screams "I'm fake !" And about "good" aftermarket parts, have you seen the prices of NDT or Phong ? So, I think - IMHO - the only way to break this spiral is to "convince" the aftermarket producers to make better parts. Seriously, who will buy a gen bezel / dial / hands for his Daytona if the aftermarket parts were really convincing ? Not me. And I have already bought all this gen stuff...

I can't agree more with you, the price these times are getting higher and higher... And it is finally just ridiculous. Especially on Rolex AD's, and even more on VRF (I seen 3/4000 EUR for a 6263 bezel... ) It's the bad part of being a vintage-Rolex-addict... More than watches, it becomes a real investment in speculative values. And investments are not so fun if we are talking about watches The only good point is that your über-franken-vintage piece will only appreciate in value over time... About the vintage Daytona parts, I did not know that AD's have still pieces in stock... It maybe will a good idea to try to exchange my trashed vintagized 6263 bezel for a new one...

I agree, for 10 EUR (vs. like 200 EUR new, in book format...), there is not so much hesitation on my side

Oh, I doesn't know there is an iPhone version Found "iDaytona", I bet this is it :-) Thanks for the info !

I'm sorry but I don't find the page, even with the search ... Have you the link by any chance ?

I finally found a 24-702-0 crown with it's 24-7020 tube for the unbeatable price of 170 EUR...

My personal opinion is something like 700 EUR, if the movement is in good shape. It depends also if the movement is clean, oiled, etc. It's something between 100-150 EUR to make it serviced by a professional. Check this one for example : http://cgi.ebay.fr/Gallet-chronographe-vintage-de-collection-valjoux-72-/140609665705?pt=FR_YO_BijouxMontres_Montres&hash=item20bcfd3aa9#ht_500wt_1156

I traded my old v72 6263 for this I know it's almost impossible to find these days...

An useful document about all the cases / tubes / crowns : http://www.esslinger.com/pdfs/rolex%20chart%20copy%20case%20number%20and%20crown%20number.pdf I guess all the references are here