Devedander

I will consider it but the fiasco I went through opening it up before is not making me really want to do it again... anything in particular you want to see about it? It's just a quartz movement so all you will see is a batter and a capacitor or something... you can see most of what's the see here Thanks for the comments and compliments! I take plenty of value from these forums, hope to add some back when I get the chance... didn't realize how long that chance was gonna take... my hat's off to By Tor and his reviews... those must be days of his life he put into writing

Thanks for the replies, I honestly don't see how any girl couldn't love this watch... in fact I am inches from springing for a black one for me accept it's just a LITTLE too girlie....

Getting inside the J12 Full Ceramic So a while back I got one of the cheap, enamel painted J12s to see how the GF liked it, at the price for a quartz itseemed like it made sense to get a feel for it before purchasing the full ceramic, especially since I don’t think I will find a gen to check out anywhere locally… She liked it a lot and so I have sprung for a full ceramic one. Being as how she will be abusing it at work a lot I decided the prudent thing to do was go for the mid grade model, not stainless coated in ceramic, but also not necessarily the super expensive one either. For just over $200 including a box set this seemed like a good value and being quartz at least I could be assured it would keep good time. Note the box is not shown in much detail as it arrived damaged in a lot of places. So out of the box impressions are the watch is very nice indeed! Despite lacking the last firing step to bring it to the highest level of ceramic shine I can’t say I have any problem with the appearance of this piece at all. The white seems to be decently even over the entirety and with the exception of a tiny brown spot on the case it seems pretty blemish free. The watch is surprisingly heavy for a quartz, obviously due to the weight of ceramic, and I think this is emphasized even more by the white color which makes it look almost like a light plastic. On the wrist it has a great feel (yes I did try it on ) and you can tell it’s a ceramic at first touch. This is the mid grade one so the final firing/polishing step has not been applied to this one (apparently accounts for the price difference) as you can see it's still plenty shiny and for the price I am very satisfied. The bracelet has a fair bit of play in it, looser than most SS bracelets. It doesn’t make it feel bad or anything and still looks just fine on the wrist. The diamonds are laid neatly in good rows and are held in at all four corners so it appears they should be pretty secure. Sadly the diamonds are inlaid deeply enough that no light is getting behind them so the fire is pretty minimal… again not sure how the gen fairs in this area but I am not sure I can think of a way to have mounted them to allow more light around them and maintain a secure hold for something that will take a beating like a watch… That said under some reasonably bright lights (store lighting lets say) the diamonds do shine and sparkle enough to catch the eye. I would assume someone who knows their jewelry would spot it as a cz in no time, but to the average Joe I am sure they will pass as normal mid to low grade diamonds (I doubt anyone will be checking for flaws in watch diamonds). The dial is also done quite well with the numbers being solid and deep (these are actually 3D, not just drawn on the dial and look to be about 1mm tall). The contrast of the deep, rich black of the numbers against all the white/ss is very eye pleasing in a professional and reserved way. What dial printing there is is quite decent with no obvious issues in quality. And the date font faces outwards to match the numbers on this model which I believe is correct. The contrast between the diamonds mounted on the SS bezel to the white ceramic and well defined dial really sets off the watch nicely. It’s got a great balance of understated beauty and bling… it doesn’t stick out like an iced grill but it catches the eye and on closer inspection doesn’t fail to impress! The clasp has the proper spring clasp and functions smoothly. It's got a nice strong spring without being difficult to open, although if you aren’t careful it might pinch the wrist a bit… The caseback has a nice arc to it and is very comfortable;I believe the engravings are appropriate and correct. Sizing the bracelet is quite straight forward. It uses a pin system which is a bit odd looking at first but is very easy to work with. You can see a small hole in the side of the “pin”, simply insert the pin pusher and the other side will pop out a bit. After about a half an inch both sides are easy to remove by hand. The pictures should make it pretty obvious how it works. Getting everything back together is a little nerve wracking as you have to hammer against the ceramic but the fit and finish was good enough that things went back together smoothly. A note the bracelet I would estimate would be tight on a 7 inch wrist… with 2 links out it’s tight (but just fits) my 6.5 wrists. Generally everything is seems great about this watch right out of the box… however a little digging does reveal a few unpleasantries… First off is removing the bracelet. While you are not likely to need to do this, it was a HUGE pain for me when I did… and it comes hand in hand with the other, and much more worrisome, issue… the caseback does not seal with the case. I took the caseback off as I wanted to lube the gasket for a little extra water resistance as the GF wears this to work and washer her hands often) and just to peek inside (yeah I know, real interesting… a quartz movement and a spacer… weee). 8 small screws are all that holds it together (no need for a caseback tool, just a small screwdriver) and once those are out the movement literally falls out of the case… that’s because the caseback and movement hold together around the case, you can see this in the pictures, so as soon as the caseback is loose from the movement it just drops right out the front. Fortunately for me I was working close to my table so no damage, and I can’t really imagine this being an issue under normal conditions, but good to bear in mind. The insides are nothing particularly interesting… ceramic case, movement etc… The gasket in this case is difficult to get to while the caseback is attached to the case and the bracelet prevents the caseback from coming off freely so I removed the bracelet. The springbars are nice and fat and have a solid spring feel to them. I am glad as I wouldn’t want some wussy springbar sending this ceramic case to the floor… getting them out was a snap, just insert springbar tool, push, remove end link repeat. At this point the caseback is still wedged into the case by the little feet where the springbars go into. Note the case itself has recessed areas where the springbar goes in, but they are recessed in semi spheres so as to stay out of the way of the spring bar, I assume they don’t want the brittle ceramic bearing the force of the spring bar and stress from the wrist/watch pushing on it. The springbars go only into the little holes in the feet of the caseback which in turn wedge into the case and hold the caseback on. Getting the caseback off is a bit scary as I had to push it out with my thumbs much like popping a crystal out… I was very worried I would break the case at this point but fortunately no such bad luck. I would always be careful here though, you don’t want to snap the case… After getting it all apart I got the gasket out, lubed it and went to put it all back together… This is where things got ugly. First off, when putting the caseback on I noticed something startling… I could see light between the edge of the caseback and the case!!! It does not fit properly! The case back is simply too narrow and the case thus has a gap as a result! This obviously means it’s VERY easy for water to get in this far. Now fortunately the movement I think is still pretty well sealed in from the back due to how the gasket fits against the caseback, but this is worrisome to me nonetheless as it seems that it’s just asking for water to get into the crown tube… I asked the dealer about this and was informed that reps simply aren’t water resistant and this is just how it’s made… not great news but if that’s how it is I guess that’s how it is… I think this can be fixed by patching the gap with some sort of waterproof stuff from the inside where it won’t be easily seen… any ideas on what to use are welcome. And in case you are wondering, this has nothing to do with installing the caseback the wrong way, no matter which orientation you use the gap exists… Anyhow, caseback back on, next up was to install the bracelet again. This should be pretty easy right? Nope… the little holes in the metal feet of the caseback are at the very edge of the range they can be at and still have the springbars fit… this means you really have to fight to get them to fit in and I was scared the whole time again I was going to break the case. My advice (and I am not taking them out again to test this advice) is to install the bracelet BEFORE putting the caseback back on the case. I think this will make it much easier overall, in the end I spent over half an hour fighting the springbars and finally got one to fit while on the case and one to fit while off the case, then snapped into place… All done resizing and the GF loves it, it's a nice step up from her painted one (I will try to get sa wrist shot but she is asleep now so it would be kind of weird for me to slip in and start taking pictures... then again maybe I could make some money....) Speaking of, sorry for some of the questionable quality pictures... I tried but I need to get some kind of lightbox... either way lots of our dealers have excellent pictures on their sites to check out. Anyhow, hope you enjoyed my writeup and if you have any suggestions on what to patch the case gap up with, please let me know!

I can only imagine what an hour or two in a sheep skin covered chair watching you work would teach a guy... but sadly I have to settle for the next best thing: me with a cheapo toolset breaking my cheap reps... ok it's not the next best thing but oh well BTW even though you are told this on a regular basis I just want to say again you are a huge asset to this forum and it's invaluable to have knowledge and help like you around!

Hmmm... good to know... I probably broke it by now then as at one point I was fiddling with it and the crown came out in the time set position. Since I got it back together by now I am sure I crushed the lever and it wouldn't be particularly worth it to take this watch apart to fix anyway... thanks for clearig it up The Zigmeister! BTW I apologize if it's outlined somewhere and I missed it, but is there a way to assure that the square part of the stem is lined up or is it something you just push it in and if there is too much resistance you know it's not lined up well?

Flip I think you are totally missing the advice here which is either: Get a decent crystal press or take it to someone who does it professionally. I don't know who told you a hockey puck and a vice could be made to meet requirements (or what those were) but if I put $250 into a crystal I want a machine that was specifically designed for the task and preferably someone who has done it before to operate that machine... So again, get a decent crystal press or take it to a watch shop (preferably the latter) should solve your problems.

I would really love a little delay becuase I would be in for at least 1 or 2 but not quite just yet...

I would be very scared to try again with your hockey puck and vice... take it to a watch store, have them press it in for you... or buy a press at least before you try it again. I have no problem mashing my cheap rep crystals but I am even leary of my rep crystals that probably cost $80 to replace... you got a $250 crystal... spend a few more bucks and do it right!

I took apart one of my subs yesterday to align the crystal (got a crystal press in the mail and was dying to try it out) and after getting it all back together it doesn't hack... now this is a cheap asian auto (not the same one I took apart before) but I could have swore it hacked before I took it apart. It winds, dates change and time sets fine, but the second hand always runs... Now I might just be loosing it and maybe it never hacked, but I was wondering if it's possible to break just the hacking signal but have an otherwise perfectly good running watch? This particular watch is no big deal but I would like to know becuase if I did do something wrong I would like to know before I dig into any more expensive watches... thanks~!

Maybe pin a thread in your dealer section that links to it in "Other brands" so people will see it better?

Ordered a J12, UPO and Tag Link from Josh last week, email response was fast when he was doing email, setup my order via email (told him what I wanted and confirmed price) and paid very early on the 5th. Got a tracking number with promise of shipment this week. Item left China Monday and was in my hot little hands Tuesday before noon. I say confirm your orders by emailing him when paying but other than that, business seems to be ok for him.

Better goals have never heard outlined... But to be fair, EL is in Canada... in China it's a different story... you could probably own a whorehouse and an AMG for what EL makes at his legit job... But I do have to wonder about numbers of watches sold... I mean just from our forums alone the number of users and the number of watch reviews and dealer reviews makes me believe sales can't be that slow...

I personally do not like the all black...

Aren't IWC bracelets location dependant as in only the last link can be used to give someone to add on?

Might wanna post a pic of this "white film" so we know what you are dealing with... but yeah the easiest way is gonna be buy some polishing compound and a dremel... harbor freight I believe has a cheap dremel that should suffice and polishing comopound should be easily available in a lot of places.

Being smart is only one way to make money... there are plenty of not very smart people in the labor forces out there clearing $75k a year. But more importantly you do have to be smart in a certain way to do what our dealers do, and it's not that easy... well I think it's not, I obviously don't know for sure, but my feeling is that if you look in prisons (and in desserts in holes in the ground) you will find the people who tried to get into this kind of business and weren't very smart. The ones who are still around and doing it years later are indeed quite smart, street smart probably but still... Back to my weed analogy... I tried to get in on the business when I was in high school, I had the connections and I was pretty smart (got high college entry SAT scores when only in 7th grade and I am still one of the smarter people I know - not trying to toot my horn, just saying) and I had a REALLY hard time, never came up in the game and got out pretty soon after I started... don't think everything is as easy as it sounds, especially in unregulated business, there is a whole complex set of rules to learn and it's often an expensive process to learn them. My afore mentioned weed dealer, not a really smart guy, I don't think he got the 200 points for spelling your name correctly on the SATs... but he evaded police and other dealers for over a decade and made a ton of cash (most of which went to his lawyer when he finally did get caught once)... so smart is all relative. Also factor in the leg work these guys go through... again, how many emails do you think they answer a day? I don't know if you have ever had to do it before, but let me tell you answer 200 emails from potential clients a day is not fun, especially when a lot of those emails will not turn into busines (I am sure our dealers get lots of questions from someone who finally decides to buy elsewhere or changse their mind or just looses interest). I think they are making a good profit margin for what they do, but that's how it is in every industry for the people who do the job well. And if you want to see the guys who do not do the job well... look in the prisons and back alleys.

I agree that it's no ones business in that no one is being wronged if the dealers don't give us spreadsheets outlining their profit margins, but I don't see any problem talking about it... I too believe the dealers are making a sh!tload of money... and being from China and with family still there I can tell you $150/month is not the high end of average wages... my step mother works as a teachers assistant in a nice university and makes about $300/month and there are plenty who make more. There are still MANY who make much less, but in any decent sized city you will clear $150/month just being a salesperson in a small shop. But back to how much dealers make... I honestly believe that if you setup shop with a drop shipper (ie front end from a factory) you get better prices than even that you get from the guangzhou markets... I mean even there they offered discounts for 5 or more watches... our dealers must send out dozens a month if not more. I know over 2 moths I personally bought 8 watches. So I would guess at least 100% markup for some dealers (I think margins vary widely though with some chariging much more for the same product) But yes there are many expenses to worry about such as paying off officials (believe me in many places in China this is VERY common and in a city that cranks out nothing but illegal counterfeit products? You don't have to think hard about that... Once I was in China with some American friends, and they got caught jaywalking... because they were white obviously and the cop figured they would be good for some money (no seriously, that is exactly why - they do not stop you for jaywalking in China, standard street crossing routine is go wherever you like, step out in to fast moving traffic and cross one lane at a time, standing on the white lines looking for gaps in traffic while busses pass both sides of you by inches at 40mph) bottom line was get arrested and go to the police station to fill out tons of paperwork and pay a stiff penalty (probably would have been $500 or so for a freigner at the time) or pay the officer to fill out an on the spot report/ticket $100 - cash only please. Cash paid, officer left assuring us he would fill out the ticket and paperwork and we would not have to deal with him or anyone else at the police office... yeah... That's for jaywalking in a large city and not even any sort of hub of illegal activity. So I would be a good chunk of change goes toward greasing wheels every year, and every time someone gets fired or promoted I garauntee you have to grease his replacement all over again. But even after this and all other expenses (returns/repairs etc) eat into profits there is the other side which is answering emails and such... that is a PAIN. I have a pretty small client list and only get about a dozen emails on a busy day... even that can get me pretty frustrated pretty fast. If you want me dealing with what these guys deal with I need to make a TON of money. And yes $75k US is the life of a KING in China... It's roughly the equivalent of making $350k here in terms of lifestyle. Am I bitter they make this much? No. Do I feel ripped off? Well lesse, I have family in China and legitimately go visit every few years, I could tack on a plain ticket and hotel in Guangzhou for only a few hundred more and spend a few days watch shopping (which I will) but that would limit me to what is out at the time and what I can find and I might end up with the crappy generation of a watch instead of the later great one because I am not so hot at picking out those details... then there is getting the watches hom. I am paying a lot for a service but it's a service alright So what do I think about it? I think it's fine and great. When I bought weed from my dealer in high school I knew he was paying $20 for the bag he sold me for $50. But I also knew he had to be $5-10k at a time to get those prices, risked some serious jail time, had to watch his back a LOT and got ripped off more than once. He got me what I wanted and I paid him for the risks involved, by the time it got to me the worst I had to fear was cops catching me with it and by then the risk was minimal as it was below the intent to sell volume. But just like I expected him to get me good weed and not rip me off for the prices I paid I expect our dealers to deliver on the products that are making them a very nice living. That's why I don't hesitate to bring up problems, even small ones, with dealers if I think it's at all reasonable for them to fix it (scratched clasp or link, I want a new one - damaged dial or hands, I want new ones - wrong watch, I want the right one) I don't mind paying for an expensive service. Heck if I thought I could do it I would move to China and start peddlng watches too! But I just hope dealers don't forget they are indeed getting good $$$ and keep treating us like they should. So far I am happy to say that all the dealers I have had issues with have come up with reasonable resolutions for me and that's all I ask for out of this.

Sorry to hear about the divorce... but as for the chronomat I believe Angus is the guy to talk to at the moment

Silix prime is the prime stuff... the good stuff... the special box behind the counter stuff... Watchsilix is the front shelf stuff. Mostly asian auto and quartz and cheap. Both run by Jay and Angel, and I have even combined items from both in the same shipment before. I like Jay and Angel and they are responsive and good to their customers. I give them a thumbs up. BTW the Euro thing can be fixed (kind of) you will notice a currency drop down box on the page, it can change prices to $ if you want... it's usually just a few more bucks than euros though so it's easy to estimate... I just add it all to cart then run the total through currency converter. Have fun!

If it's the etching on the head of the crown (where it says IWC) it would take you a LONG time to get that smoothed down... cape cod doesn't take very much off very fast.

Sounds remarkably similar to my first watch resizing... accept mine was pins and all I had was a full size hammer and a small jewelers scredriver with the tip broken off...

That's odd... PC Firefox and it's still doing the no scroll bar for me... wide images go right off to the right and click/drag won't fix it... One thing that may be adding to this is that I am viewing it on a widescreen but only using the left 3/4 of my screen (my screen is a TV with PIP in the top right corner for live TV) so maybe it thinks since my res is 1300x768 that it's ok to make the page that wide? Either way I still don't have scroll bars...

I too would love a picture... I am always curious just what you get from these scam sites...

I mean what do you put for a return address? I was thinking if customs gets wind of it and decides to track you down they might think YOU are selling fake watches... But if you don't use your own address and for some reason it comes back... BTW to clarify this is if you return a watch to a dealer for being broken or something.

What's the deal with crystals that are already AR? Is it possible to have that removed during this process? Also anyone got any info on how hard it is to buff off the second side if you don't like it? And what about adding a second side to a crystal that already has one side?