Finepics

I am still convinced that the mainplate is definitely ETA - the engine turned finish on the dial side and overall appearance visually (colour as well) looks exactly like the older defnite ETA's. If the chinese were making the whole thing then one has to ask why on earth would they change the pallet to a [censored] from a bridge - it would seem totall unecessary and expensive since they are already making the correct shaped pallet bridge in the asian 6497.So what I think is this - they have for some reason got in ETA movts that have different markings and the pallet [censored]. The asians in a further attempt to make it more like the gen have, as well as making the familiar dowel pegged bridge plates (another ETA tell), used some of the other asian components to make a hybrid. In fact it might be that the mainplate is the only part sourced from ETA. This would be a shame as the ETA gears are much better cut and I have recently seen cases of the asian 6497 centre wheel coming apart. So if they are using asian gears this would also explain the different sized centre wheel bearing - certainly smaller than standard ETA. I also noted that the gold finish of the going train is not the matted brass like ETA but much more shiny like the asian 6497 and rougher looking.

Almost as good as mine!!

And you just can't hide it!! @speedy - You can see the paint that is missing on the corners and edges of some of the markers in the dealers pics so this is obviously a common problem. They are not really that visible to the naked eye but reflect when in direct light so become more noticeable then as a pinpont highlight.

Ken I think you will find that is a gen in the photo. This is exactly what the engravers are doing for me right now.

That is exactly like mine!! (when I get it back!)

Yes the pushers screw down but as everyone has said this is a watch for laying down and avoiding!!

Datewheel is black - apparently so is the gen!

Glaring problems for me were the bezel markers not polished and the lume not luming!! The twisted dial markers at 8 & 10 also made it a non wearer till it was fixed!!!

It's all evry well being sent a replacement bezel - has anyone had one or successfully removed the ewxisting bezel

There is no reason why these would leak and to remove them might make a problem. Best thing to do is remove all the movt then assemble the empty case and put it in a glass of water. You will see if there are any obvious leaks or get it prtessure tested if you really want to be sure. Most of the reps (especially PAM's) are all waterproof as made but not alweays as delivered due to the casebacks often not being done up properly. Yes a genuine ETA will fit but you have to use some parts from the asian 7750 to make it work. The Zigmeister (the master) has an excellent detailed post in his movt and reviews section here: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=1410

The hands will not be right as the sub dial hands are too big. What you need to do is get Davidsen to send 2 x 6 o'clock subdial hands (they are still too small but better than too big) and then also fit the minute and hour hands for the 188 as well as these are spot on for the gen 212 size.

Hope you don't mind me answering this for you. The case is designed to have two O rings for the caseback (but some have been delivered with one missing). One that fits around the threads of the caseback and the other that sits in a groove in the case. All the pushers (as they are on all the chronos) have internal O rings which are watertight. They industry standard pushers so are all made the same way. The case tube has an O ring as does the winding crown. The HE valve and date pusher are drilled all the way through and are a press metal to metal fit. The crystal is held in place with a nylon I ring which again is an industry standard watchmaking technique. These are all the seals on the watch - the bezel merely surrounds the top of the case and needs no sealing. The case is certainly of a quality to last 1000 years however the asian movement is a bit of an unkown quantity. They have not been made for long enough to know how long they will last. Usual problems are dirt or insuffucient lubing but the quality of some gear wheels is not as high as it could be and things like the chrono reset hammer can come apart. Most are able to be converted to ETA without too much difficulty. The hands are also know to rotate on their pinions and so not reset in the correct position. The long and short is that some will go on for years and others quit after a few weeks. All things are fixable.

I think the thing that's confusing is that they have all been working happily for some time before developing this fault.

Someone read him the riot act!!

HFC - this problem seems to be happening with the newest versions of the G and H series movts that have the correct shaped regulateur arm. The first G series with the correct bridges did not have a swan neck and the winding gears were just plain cut standard ETA. Then they started to bevel the gears (but so steeply they did not always engage properly), then they added the swan neck and finally they changed the shape of the balance [censored] and they stayed like this in G and then H series until just recently when these new ones emerged. I have posted this elsewhere but I am wondering if this fault of the hairspring touching the balance [censored] is as a result of premature wear of an insufficiently, or not at all, lubricated balance staff cap jewel. Hence the watch working fine for a month or so before stopping. I have just had an asian 6497 sent to me with exactly the same fault and it had been fine before that. I have not yet looked at it but it works fine when face down but not when face up. Why else would the balance wheel have so much end float as to work face down but stop if face up. The balance is designed with end float so there willl be a small amount of vertical play but for it to move too much the bearing must be worn - makes sense?

Carefull when using pliers as they can chew the end of the pin. I usually tap them out using a piece of SS wire slightly smaller dia.

He he - exactly - now I need never get bullied again!!!! @Madasboot If I were to throw it - it might cause rather a lot of damage so best to keep it on my wrist

Even longer since Leicester City were on there!!

It's highly possible that the asian makers have bought in a whole consignment of ETA's that have, for some reason, had a modification or were orginally destined for a watch that meant they were made without the 6497 markings. You will not find these marks on a gen Panerai movt. Certainly I would say that the asians have used their own balance wheel in this whereas with the previous modded movts this was gen ETA. Also the centre wheel bearing and pinion on the older ETA's is a different size. So it semems more a mix of parts than the older ones. In fact the whole going train could be asian if they are using the 21600 bph balance and escape.

I have just got an asian 6497 with exactly the same problem. With the watch face down all is well but face up and it stops. This watch had been working fine for a while. I have a feeling that the makers of this new movt use a chinese made balance wheel (hence the non standard shaped spokes) and I am beginning to wonder if they are lubed properly? It could be that if there is no oil that theyare wearing the cap jewel out allowing more vertical movt of the balance so allowing the spring to contact the balance [censored]? The Zigmeister where are you??

No problem - let me know when you are ready.

Thanks for that - also the bezel lines up perfectly with the 12 marker which is nice.

Crown is fine - it will wobble a small amount as it is a spung crown, but it has a double O ring in the crown and the usual crown tube with O ring so excellent water resistance (as they all have) and no reason why I could not go diving to moderate depths with this. Just got it all back together - boy does that lume glow

Thanks my man - tell you what - it is bloody nice. The blue dial is really rather cool and sets it aside a bit from all the others. And it really feels solid like in a bar room brawl you could strap it round your fingers, use it as a knuckleduster and it'll still work afterwards!! Or of course you could just go swimming with it instead. He valve is a dummy.

Should have mentioned that they all do seem to have individual serial numbers.