Raijor

Ditto what he said Looks like an Eta and works like an Eta, maybe a solution to a future problem,

Living is about being selfish. Accumulationg resources for survival and fighting to live and pass on your genes is selfish. Interestingly, Charles Darwin and the Catholic Church postulate the sole purpose of all animals existance including humans is to pass on their genitic code to the next generation through procreation - itself a selfish act. Selfish Selfish Selfish - Atheism is better than Christiany but Islam is best of all - can you not see where this type of thinking ultimately leads? BOOM BOOM BOOM

I suggest spending money on lottery tickes in the U.S. better odds.

Mr Pugwash - Very elegant logic and to the point. Some days reading an off topic forum post is more than a diversion it is an investment - I believe your conclusion is irrefutable. You have reduced my understanding of organized religion as none have before. Wow MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS I am a Christian and do believe in God. Every day I choose to believe and then make an act of faith by telling myself through prayer that there is a God and Jesus Christ is of the one Trinity of that God. Through my day my faith is challenged or reinforced by myriads of happenings until I retire. The next day I start the same process over. I am like a man with re-occurring amnesia - some days I remember my faith easily and others little or nothing is there and must be rediscovered moment by moment. In studying the life of Christ I have learned a better way to live and have chosen to follow that path in my life. My faith is not automatic nor absolute; it is created for me by myself through simply taking the first step in that direction. I believe that it is all God asks of us; we are forgiven our trespasses and then are free to try again to follow Christ as best we can. We are free to be either Ape or Angel by choosing our own way. Jesus oedtt we may conquer in not that we mus. It is our choosing to believe that creates our whole faith. Faith is belief in the face of little or no supporting evidence: of little value in the eyes of the law, but a good basis on which to live a life. Thanks all for the forum that allows a in a little navel gazing.

Before I contact Artisan I should ask you if they are willing to plate reps or are they anti-rep?

Hi- Great post and timely. Is this company willing to do one off jobs or do require some minimum? Thanks

I am familiar with the paper you have used as your source for information. For people reading your post I offer a caveat. The source you site is a secondary source and is a private lobby organization working on stiffening laws against replica merchandise in Canada. Lobby groups seek to change the law to favour their group and in doing their job they will seek to illustrate the current laws as being wrong. The fact is current laws are neither right or wrong as they are open to interpretation. The fact is the CANADIAN ANTI-COUNTERFEITING NETWORK (CACN) has not challenged the current laws in court and has chosen to lobby the government instead. There is no position for them to challenge existing laws and win. YOU SAID "But, if you read my earlier post, customs do have the right to seize your watch as the importation violates intellectual property laws. The thing is that customs can not do anything with your watch. Only the RCMP is able to seize it. " AND TO CLARIFY THE LAW AS IT STANDS What this means respective the law: is that CCRA through the CBSA has not the authority to seize a counterfeit watch unless there is a violation of a trademark and the offended trademark holder has obtained a court order to enforce their trademark. - What this really means is that if a person in Canada has purchased a Rep watch - say a Bell & Ross from Josh and had that Rep shipped to Canada - for CCRA through the CBSA to seize that rep watch, Bell & Ross would have to obtain a court order in Canada that names the parties involved specifically and offers reasonable evidence in support of the claim of violation - once Bell & Ross has the order it must present it to the customs agency - without this court order no seizure is possible. CCRA agents can not open every package that enters Canada looking for the Bell & Ross replica hoping to find an offending watch as there are simply not enough resources available. Because it is a Civil matter Bell & Ross must do the pre-seizure leg work in obtaining the court order. No court order no authority to seize the imported watch. A blanket somebody in some city is importing an offending watch will not do. NOW - were this an importation of a few hundred fake watches with the intent to distribute the RCMP would be working on the case using its own resources to make a seizure and an arrest under criminal statutes.

Here is a quote from the Canadian RCMP (Canada's national police force) Web Site: "Possession of counterfeit items is not a criminal offence in Canada as long as there is no intent to distribute them" and another from the RCMP web site on downloading music. "Downloading music for personal use is currently not a criminal offence in Canada." Investigations of counterfit items are as follows - from the RCMP web site: "According to the RCMP's protocol with Justice Canada, our priority for investigating counterfeit products targets commercial manufacturing, importation and distribution. Investigations at the retail level are generally dealt with in the private sector through civil processes." Here is the link to the RCMP web sites where the quotation have been taken: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fio/intellectual_e.htm In Canada there is distincition between buying a rep for personal use and buying reps for resale in a commercial venture. The former is legal and the latter illegal. Great topic for a thread. I have purchased and imported 16 reps over the past 5 months with no problems whatsoever. Canadian Customs has opened and inspected the contents two of my packages out of 12 that my watches were shipped to me. In both cases no issues and the packages were released and forwarded to me with yellow Canada Customs tape informoing me that my packages were opened and inspected. The last package came just the other day with a Cartier Santos 100 rep and the Bell & Ross 39 mm all stainless. Josh listed the package contents as: "Novelty watches" I hope I add to the body of Knowledge here and members are helped.

This is a real downer to read. I have been reading how tough Customs in Europe can be. I offer my sympathy.

I am not sure about other countries but in Canada it is neither illegal to purchase or own reps as long as they are for personal use and not for re- sale . The agreement between vendor's and Visa requires a vendor accepting Visa to obtain an actual signature of the card holder / purchaser using a Visa credit card, otherwiser, the vendor is responsible to the credit card company to pay all monies taken in purchase in an unsigned credit card transaction where the card is stolen. There is signifigant risk to the vendor accepting Visa via phone or online where no signature is required. I would never accept a credit card online for my business. The risk as a vendor is just too high. As a credit card holder in Canada people are only responsible for a maximum of $50 CAD for a lost or stolen card that is misused. This is the case even if the card holder does not discover the missing card before a run-up has been done. Card companies put an effort into hiding this part of the law and really try to frighten people by inferring that the cardholder is at risk. Please check the laws on this in your own country as they my differ significantly from the ones in my jurisdiction. Here is one scarry experience of mine. Hollidaying in Puerto Rico a few years ago my wife and I were robbed of cash and credit cards. We carried Amex at that time because it offereed no spending limit - we thought it would be for for traveling. We immediately cotacted Amex lost or stolen cards and reported both cards stolen. I assumed that since I reported my card an my wife's card that would be enough. Nope thewanted the card numbers - another assumption on my part was that both cards would have the same number - wrong - I only gave the number from my wife's card not bothering to check if mine was the same and the Amex rep eer asked for my card number even though I reported both cards stolen. All was fine until we returned home and received our Amex statement. We had $37,000 U.S. in charges the theives had run up including one non-returned rental car and a $1,000 restaraunt bill with a $500 tip added. To shorten the story - Amex was demanding the full payment from me because I had not given them my card number as well as my wife's. My lawyer dealt with the matter and Amex backed off and accepted $50 from me. We agreed that Amex and ourselves would mutually terminate aour card agreement and I am no longer an Amex card holder. My lawyer charged $175 to write the letter to Amex so my loss was actually $225. Moral of story - never, never assume when dealing with a credit card company. I suggest that members in other countries check with their own respective governments and or national police / customs services regarding the legality of buying and owing reps and also credit card laws respecting consumer protection. Canadians can go to RCMP web site where the law regarding counterfit purchase and ownership is clarly stated as legal. It also states that engaging in the sale of counterfit items is illegal. Interestingly, it is legal to download pirated music in Canada as long as it is for personal use. I do not mean to bore anybody or pontificate but encourage members to check the laws in their own country rather than assume that all laws are the same worldwide on counterfits. Different jurisdictions can offer significantly different laws and penalties as I learned on a previous thread. Having said all that - I think good advice has been proffered by the member who suggested the Visa gift card with the limited value and one time use. Personally, I am very satisfied dealing with Andrew a Josh and also have completed my last purchase using Western Union - I found Western union fast ad almost as easy as Paypal just more expensive. Good luck all - I hope I have helped rather than bored. Cheers. Edited for some spelling & grammer corrections

Just to clarify - I am not trying to rain on your parade - I hope your inheritance turns out to be an actual Patek. I doubt that there were reps as back then as most watches were not branded the way they are now. You did ask for feedback. I only mentioned the "re-casing" of pocket watch movements because they are fairly commonplace. Your watch looks to in my opinion be a re-case because it has soldered lugs meant to attach a strap for wearing the watch on the wrist. Your watch if made in the 1890's would likely be the first known men's wristwatch, preceeding the Cartier Santos wristwatch made specifically for Alberto Santos Dumont in the early 1900's, in which case you will be able to retire and live the good life form many years to come. More likely however, your watch has been re-cased at some point or it is actually an early 20th century Patek wristwatch and is worth quite a fortune. Keep in mind that Abraham-Loius Breget invented the Tourbillon in 1795 so plopping a pocket watch movement into a wristwatch case is a small renovation. In any event you have got quite a prize there. Good luck!!

You need to take this to a watchmaker (not a watch technician) to determine preliminary authenticity. There are many Franken Pateks floating around. For example: every few months a "Patek" show up on eBay. These watches actually are just re-cased Patek pocket watch movements. While a quality movement they are not true Patek Phillipe watches and usually sell but not for a fortune. Good luck - I wish you the best.

There is something magical anout that watch - it takes me back in time and elicits many good memories for me. Great photos!!!!

Adapt - that is the nature of Capitalism. Those that want to continue buying and selling, must adapt. History has proven that contraband will never be stopped - ever - and even after that. I just completed an order with Josh and opted to pay via Western Union. Payment was smooth but took a little longer and cost more than with Paypal. A cost of doing business. Paypal was convenient but it is gone - so I adapt. And as Vinnie Barbarino used to say - "UP THEIR NOSE WITH A RUBBER HOSE." Cheers all

Great watch - I just ordered that in the 39 mm version because my experience square watches do tend to look very large on the wrist. Your watch is mega big. That is going to get a lot of eyeballs. Wear it in good health.

A good rep.

I have never been a bling fan but somehow that Breitling looks right with that diamond bezel. Any idea on the price?

Sad end to a very sad life.

Can anybody advise me whether or not there will be significant delays in shipping because of Chinese new Year? Or Is the Chinese New Year business as usual? I have my eye on a couple of watches and would like to know should I order now or just wait till after celebrations? Help!! Please!! Cheers

Unless you own the company - having contraband shipped to your work place is playing with fire. Maybe you won't get burned but maybe you will. Asking the question leads me to believe you understand you are taking a risk.

Wow that is an impressive watch. May I ask where you found it?

Here is a photo of my stripped LV. I have discovered why my bezel will not stay on - I warped it when forcing it off the watch. As I mentioned it will not stay on or when forced on it will not move. I am going to attach it with weldbond and be done with it. To all members with a Noobmariner - pry off the bezel at your peril. Cheers

That is a bummer Taxes can add up quickly almost to the cost of another watch. Condolences

Do not do what I did - it will lead to nothing but misery. I am left with one option - force the bezel back on. I intend to use vise grips covered with about 1/4 inch of masking tape on each jaw to press it back on. It will be stuck in one place and that will be that. It took a lot of force to get the bezel off (I pryed it off with utility knife and man was it hard to get off) - I don't know how the maker got it on because that is another really tuff job. I have had the bezel back on twice - if I put it on to allow it to turn it will pop off after half a turn because one side is not completely seated - if I put it so all parts of the bezel are completely seated the bezel will not move and it is stuck solid. Great options eh! Use my experience as a warning.

Yep you are right on. I did pop the bezel on mine - it took approx 10 miutes to get it off. I had a big surprise when I got it off. The setup is completely different than the traditional bezel set up. After putting it back on with a new and better bezel insert, the bezel would not turn. When I finally got it off again thinking I would re-install it it would not set in place. It would make a half turn and pop off again. What a mess. So beware the noob bezel. I will post photos so members can see what they have to work with if considering a bezel mod.