By-Tor

I agree 100% with Eunomians. They show no respect to their own history and customers... and vintage collectors. For me Rolex means history. High quality stainless steel tool watches that are masculine and handsome. In the old days their watches were even reasonably priced. The classic Sub/SD/Exp/GMT/Daytona line is still the #1 in the sports watch line but Omega is catching up them soon. The new PO chronograph was impressive and this is all Rolex can come up with: Horrible, tasteless, diamond wrapped gay watches like this. 6-0 to Omega in Basel.

If the watch is a rep model of the current GMT Master II there should be no lugholes. Genuine Rolex watches post-2001 models (I recall) don't have the lug holes. So your rep is correct in that sense.

Some of my favourite GMT's: Omega Speedmaster Broad Arrow GMT (new model) Ebel Voyager: Black Seamaster GMT: Zenith Port Royal Elite: ...and the only GMT I currently own:

Thanks Ethan, good post.

I like chronographs mainly for their looks, not for functionality. That's why I wouldn't have a problem with visually good (and reliable) chrono rep with frozen stopwatch (if the price were good). At least over those horrid date/calendar chronos that get produced. Some people might disagree. If you REALLY like some watch model (like Navitimer) of course you should buy the 7750 version and get it serviced. But there are lots of models that I could buy just for fun... if the price were around $100. That was actually the whole point of my original post. We all have different personal preferences. Perhaps a average Joe would look at the chronograph watch differently. I first look at the subdial spacing, correctly centered stopwatch and subregisters. Maybe the average guy would just be satisfied if the pushers do at least *something*... like change date or month in the false calendar subdials. And besides, many of those chronos have the stopwatch hand running as a big seconds hand (which is a major no-no for me). But you're absolutely correct: very few people use the "special" options in their watches. They are there just for looks 99% of the time.

It seems that Paul's "fraud section" is growing... What cracks me up is the fact they both have a "buy now" button. Price is 0.00$. Carzy sale? http://www.aspire-eshop.com/product_info.p...products_id=987

Could someone tell me what what I supposedly "pulled" here. Maybe I insulted the movement in his watch? If I did... that wasn't my intention, honestly. <shakes head> Edit: Hmm, maybe my original post was stupid and provocative, I dunno. Or maybe we both had a bad hair day? I just don't see myself "misleading" anyone there.

True. That probably explains the day/date chronos.

Everybody knows that unserviced 7750 is a unstable movement. It's a known "fact". I don't need to buy the movement, I trust what plenty of other members have stated and experienced. I also think $500 for a rep is too much. But that's my personal opinion only. You don't seem to accept it. What the hell are you talking about? I was merely stating that $500 for a rep is too much trouble and cost for me... PERSONALLY. And I was trying to open a discussion about different and cheaper alternatives. What in this syntax that you don't understand? And what's "misleading" about that? Pray tell. You crack me up. I was only saying in my original article that I _personally_ would be glad if rep manufacturers could produce visually accurate cheaper rep chronograph watches with non-working subdials. Then you jump in and start lecturing me... and telling that I "mislead" the members. I wonder why you continuously miss the point, or do you _purposefully_ miss the point? <sigh> Ziggy is a friend. And I respect him a lot... and I have read his reviews many times. Your point? [Ziggy quotes deleted] What "issues"? They're FAKES. I love reps, that's why I'm here. But unlike you I'm just not living under the false illusion that these watches are 90% accurate. They are not. They're novelty items, and in my opinion investing lots of money on a rep isn't worth it. You seem to have a problem with my opinion. I don't understand what your point is... and why you're trying to provocate something. Honestly.

You completely missed the whole point. I didn't "compare" them. I was considering different options. Joshua's (and EL's) $100 Daytona looked excellent (and it had non-working subdials, pushers and stopwatch). Last I checked $100 is hell of a lot less than $500. And of course price is a factor, for most people in rep forums anyway. "A few hundred dollars more" is a lot of money when you talk about a fake. Especially when many people are buying and collecting these as "novelty items" anyway. Your IWC might be a good deal (and good rep). Congratulations for that. But does it make sense to get "90% accurate and serviced" Aquaracer 7750 automatic chrono for $500 when preowned genuines can be obtained for $800? Come on... For some people working stopwatch might be very important and thus that kind of rep would be unacceptable. Working stopwatch isn't that essential for me, if the watch is otherwise in good quality. I was wondering why the rep factories don't produce more watches like that and put out laughable calendar chronos instead. For me that kind of watch would be a serious option as I don't absolutely need the functioning stopwatch. At least not for the extra $400 (and extra trouble) that needs to be invested (and STILL get wrong subdial spacing in most cases). You know, different strokes for different folks. I was merely trying to open a discussion. It was YOU who started singing the gospel here. And if you think ANY rep is more than 90% accurate compared to a genuine IWC, Omega or Rolex... you need a reality check, quickly. The best reps might be good but they're just Chinese funny watches. Now could you explain me what reasoning here goes against common knowledge of "experts". And who are the "experts"... other than you of course? Thanks.

Some models of Breitling and Panerai (and the new IWC GST) might be very close but they're definitely exceptions. MOST 7750 chronographs have completely wrong subdial spacing and sometimes bad pushers. Visually 90% accurate replica is excellent, imho. There's always differences in overall quality when you compare your rep to a genuine. I still feel investing $500 on a Chinese fake watch a lot of money, no matter how "accurate" it is. It's still a Chinese fake watch. Feel free to disagree but don't start patrionizing me with your noob lessons, oh Wise one. I was merely posting my personal thoughts. That's what these forums are for, right?

Thanks but I haven't bought it yet (and the picture is Andrew's). Another member at TRC told me that he bought this same rep without the text AUTOMATIC on Ioffer. So it's definitely available (somewhere). Let's keep our fingers crossed.

I've been thinking about this... if you buy a Asian powered 7750 for $250 - $300 and spend another $300 for the full service we're getting into $500 - $600 price range. Personally I just find that kind of money too much for a fake watch, especially when the subdial spacing is still off... and the watch doesn't give you even 90% visual accuracy. You can leave it unserviced but it's a fast ticking time bomb anyway. What are the options then? Quartz chronos seldom have correct visual appearance, but there are exceptions like TAG Aquaracer 2000 which looks mighty good. But then we usually have the text AUTOMATIC printed on the dial with ticking subdial seconds and stopwatch, which completely ruins the watch. I'm not anal about the details usually, but the text AUTOMATIC on a quartz is too much (imho). Another nasty thing with quartz chronos are the subdials that sometimes don't reset and center properly. At least that's what I've heard. Then there was this Daytona with correct subdial spacing (and running seconds at 6'o'clock) but completely faux, non-working chrono and non-responding pushers. What do I think? I wouldn't mind getting a faux chrono and non-working pushers if the watch looks great and the price was reasonable. I wouldn't mind a TAG quartz chrono, either (probably more than half of the genuine TAGs are lowly quartz anyway). Calendar/date faux chronographs are the worst (imho), I wouldn't buy one. Why do the rep factories even produce these when they could produce good and accurate looking versions with non-responding subdials and pushers? I never use the stopwatch for anything, it's there just for the looks. You could always say your chrono is broken if someone asks (unlikely). I believe there could be a market in this community for visually stunning (non-calendar) non-working faux chrono versions. Of course there would be a market for a reliable 7750 movement, but according to Ziggy's reviews the even new versions come completely dry!!! That means trouble... and expensive trouble. Quartz version of a Speedmaster, Zenith El Primero or Daytona would feel a bit silly. I could consider a Breitling Navitimer quartz though. Venus is a good and robust movement but lack of date, again wrong subdial spacing and that dreaded stupid 6'o'clock subdial/hour hand makes it unacceptable for most watches. My next watch? TAG Aquaracer 2000 chronograph quartz (if I can source it without the text AUTOMATIC somewhere... I know it's available). Your thoughts?

You can tell the difference between Quartz/Automatic versions easily. Also in midsize versions.

That was the quartz version you know.... http://chronocentric.com/omega/seamaster.shtml

Can't get this off!

Rolex has become a joke. Releasing these kind of dog turds with diamonds will only hurt their reputation.

Maybe this helps? http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...topic=20326&hl=

Beautiful.

For some reason there has always been lots of secrecy with the prices. There's this "unwritten rule" that even _members_ never tell how much they paid for the watch in their reviews. God knows how many PM's I've got like "nice watch, how much did you pay?". I have asked this question only twice (from another member) and it was like "ahh, I can't tell the price... it's between me and Joe Blow, my favourite dealer". When I was a noob I asked prices from some "big name dealers" here and they gave me completely ridiculous prices for some rep models that I was able to source $200 cheaper later on. I also thought bigger price always means better quality, which isn't always the case. There are some excellent $100 and $150 reps available. Then there's this saying "First choose your dealer, then choose your watch". Frankly, that's not very good advice. I say "First educate yourself, know the different replica models and buy THAT EXACT replica model for best (or at least reasonable) price from a good dealer". They are generally the same freakin' Chinese watches for Chrissakes! All our dealers are trustworthy and good, so why pay $150 extra for "good service"? Some dealers SEE the watches before they ship them, that's always good... I'm more than happy to pay extra for that kind of service. I don't want to get a watch with missing crown or bezel. Sending the watch back and forth to get "replacement parts" is more like bad quality control... rather than "good service", imho. These "What do you think about Eddie's Sub?" and "What do you think about King's Sub?" questions are ignorant as well. There are usually 2-3 different rep models of the same watch and the dealers get either one (or both). Compare the pics... and again buy it for the good price. About the public prices... I don't know. I'm glad we have so many excellent dealers who provide us excellent watches for reasonable prices. 100% public prices would be ideal but I guess some dealers never agree on that route. If even the _members_ think the prices are "hush hush" stuff why should we require that from the dealers? Members could easily make the prices public if they wanted, so what's the problem here?

The black one with orange hour numbers is a killer. Now where's the rep, why it takes so long...?

Who are the biggest favourites? The usual suspects: Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, France and England?

If you can take a picture of the watch we can definitely tell you.

I'm sure everyone noticed that. Except the rep factories who will screw it up anyway... Old "Bond" watch is still going strong. Here's a new "limited edition" model with new Co-Axial movement: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=msg...750#msg_1819600

Not my watch & wrist though.