RWG Technical

Same watch and same dial...see other post for the complete package following the work that was done... The owner had written this dial off, but since it's a genuine Singer dial, I had to try and save it... RG

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Here is what I started with... And after removing the old lume and fixing it up with some new lume, I got these results...not perfect but not bad given what I started with... I had to cut the old lume off with a knife as it was the wrong consistancy and had too much binder in it...cutting it off did some damage to the original lume on the dial, so I painted it over, and then applied the vinatage lume I mixed up... RG

Finally someone caught on... It's a scam, there is no such thing, but if you didnt' know the difference, you would probably think that $20 a tire is a good price... Here we have winter, then it's nice for a day, and then it's winter again... RG

BUMP for the Daytona sizes posted and info updated. No broaching required, the ETA and the OLD Asian are identical, see the opening post... RG

Hard to say as even identical rep models tend to be somewhat different when it comes to dimensions... Size of movement alone is not the determining factor, but how it fits in the case, the location of the stem, the dial used, how it will be retained etc all vary depending on the watch and the movement... It's trial and error, there is no set of rules you can follow...I have had two identical watches sent to me for swapping parts, and it was not possible, they were both PAM 111's, but there were enough differences in the dial, case, etc that the swap did not work... but both had the same 6497 movement in them... RG

This link is one of the best CG mods... As for the rest, taking the watch apart, some how to's in my reference section. RG

It's a personal choice. Even though I can do all of the upgrades, the only things I tend to do is lume and service...and maybe a insert on a Rollie sub... If it's going to be a "keeper" then in my mind it's to each his own. I have one of the new Omega Chrono's on the way, I love the look, and have been seriously considering installing a ETA 7750 in it...I see them on the Ebay for $240 for a new 7750, hard to resist having a 99% rep for $500...vs $5000... It's like people who customize their car's, some spend thousands of $$$, others don't even wash or clean the car out... There is no right or wrong answer, everyone has to decide what is acceptable. One important point (at least I think it is) is that everyone should know what the normal "costs" are for standard watch services, and what is included...it's too easy to get taken in with extra costs that are inflated and wrong... Now if you will excuse me, my garage just called, I have to take my car in and get the summer air in my tires replaced with winter air, thankfully my garage is only charging me $20 per tire, what a deal...I am sure glad they called me and let me know about this service, they are looking out for my best interests as I know nothing about cars... RG

I agree, in my defence I have never been one to not tell it as I see it, although most of that comes from my day job... Only reason it was posted is due to what has gone on in the past 6 months, the numerous messages of complaint I have received (guess they figured I was a good sounding board) and the fact that Arthur wanted to help others avoid the same fate... The pictures speak for themselves, not much else to say. Guess I know what I am doing this weekend... RG

Welcome back...this is the place RG

Modified watch send for repair and review This watch was sent to me for two reasons, 1. to have some work done and corrected, and 2. have a review done on it and what I found, and post it on the forum. The owner has chosen to do this as in his own words “Too much Bull [censored] and too little performance. Prices are ridiculous, because we are stupid and pay them….if putting photos of my watch on the board and showing the flaws helps to keep some other poor schmuck from getting taken, then it's worth it.” So with that out of the way, here is what I got in the mail First thing I noted, was the lume and the damage on the hour hand… Here is a list of what was done to the watch, and the corresponding prices. 120.00 USD -red sub works package-mill cgs,tighten bezel,water test (,the obvious stuff like regrease o-rings , clean dial , clean crystal , clean inner ring like it should be, if using same insert I realign it for u , ) u can also just option for cgs milling for 60 bucks and the obvious stuff is included in that as well 100.00 USD-caseholes or lugholes drilled out and put the fatter pins in it also mill out the bracelet to fit the new pins ok 75.00 USD-refinish case to make it look like a refinished watch like a 1970's watch should look like. no sharp lines on case 100.00 USD-change crown/tube out to a smaller one more like genuine 65.00 USD-new insert with correct ring around the pearl and font size Total : 460.00 less 10.00 = 450.00 USD (He was so generous, He gave me a 10 dollar discount, because he kept my watch for 3 months!!) 150.00 USD Relume hands and dial with the radium vintage relume material Grand Total 600 USD What was done, and what it looks like on inspection. 120.00 USD -red sub works package-mill cgs 100.00 USD-caseholes or lugholes drilled out and put the fatter pins in it also mill out the bracelet to fit the new pins Ziggy comment: the term “Milled” is so overused and does not even describe what was done, the bracelet is “Drilled” NOT milled…it’s the old “would you like a piece of Pollack, or Boston Blue Fish…” Fancy words to make it sound exotic and expensive… 75.00 USD-refinish case to make it look like a refinished watch like a 1970's watch should look like. no sharp lines on case Here is the modified watch… Here is a BRAND NEW UNMODIFIED Josh sub to compare it to… Ziggy comment: I fail to see the difference…what was done for $75?? 100.00 USD-change crown/tube out to a smaller one more like genuine Customer comments “HA HA the new one is worse than the original, almost cannot screw in the crown” Ziggy comment: I guess “more like the genuine” actually means a crown from another rep… you be the judge, $100 upgrade??). Genuine crown tube next to one on watch. Genuine crown on the RIGHT Genuine on the RIGHT Genuine crown and tube, NOTE the splines on the inside of the tube for installation with the tool. GENUINE tube on the LEFT 65.00 USD-new insert with correct ring around the pearl and font size Customer comment “he did such a great job of tightening the bezel, I had to send it back because you needed a pipe wrench to turn it!! Ziggy comment: reason for frozen bezel was that the glue was over the inside of the bezel ring and had glued the bezel to the case. Given that this model does NOT have a spring holding the bezel in place, not sure how it was tightened as there is nothing in there, it’s a pressed on fit…metal against metal… Relume hands and dial with the radium vintage relume material. 150.00 USD Ziggy comment: I am speechless at the price and the quality… Ziggy comment: Bit of damage to the dial, next to the 6 marker… Ziggy comment: The hands can get scratched during relume, in this case, the marks on the hour hand are not due to relume, but due to poor workmanship Ziggy comment: What marked the hands? The minute one is installed too close to the hour one, and that is why the marks sweep across the hand, as they are rubbing together…Lack of or no training in watchmaking? Skill? Lack of attention to detail? Rushed? not likely as this was a 3 month turn around. You decide which one…note also the dirt and lume on the side of the hands… Dial shots Customer comments “… this one really sucks, looks like he had his kid paint the lume on! Uneven, doesn't come out to the edges, just terrible…” Well that about sums up what I found when I opened the case… Is what you see worth $600…certainly some of the upgrades and work are questionable, and that is being generous…$150 for the relume, $100 for a replica crown and tube… Not much else to say… I am going to try and fix the lume on the dial by scraping off the old stuff, and replacing it… as well as do a bunch of other stuff… What else can be said? Is this a one-off oddity? Or is this normal… There are members who have been waiting for over a year to have their watches returned, emails and phone calls go unanswered for months – that is until they post on the forum in despair, and by a miracle – get a call from the man himself within a few hours of posting (coincidence??? Probably not). Sending a watch back in that condition, with that lack of attention to detail, poor quality of workmanship, questions as to what was gotten for the money (Crown, Case Ageing, Lume job) leaves me to say only this, “please inform yourself and know what is NORMAL in terms of cost and quality of what you should expect from anyone working on your watch”. Just cause someone charges inflated prices does not in itself imply quality of workmanship… Anyone who would send a watch in to this individual after all that has gone on and been posted….well they have no sympathy from me…those that continue to think that this person is the best thing since sliced bread, I have to say, you have a totally different slant on what I consider acceptable practices when your paying for services… That is not to say that some of the work is not acceptable, but given that people have been waiting for over a year, 140+ watches waiting for work as of July (his words not mine), I can't help but wonder what is the quality of what is being sent out...most likely many are too embarassed to step up and admit they got very little for their money...bitter pill to swallow after all the dollars and months of waiting... Shame on us for not seeing this coming before it got so bad...and shame on us for having a forum where people are afraid to speak up, when many knew that this was going on (I did question some of the snake oil services such as "Crystal repressing" "$40 dial [censored]s" and also posted about those telling me they had serious problems, but that got me nowhere except frustrated and flamed, so I finally gave up...) RG

I dont' know, it just kind of dissolves the oiler if you use the oiler to mix it, I guess 'cause your rubbing and mixing it up...whereas when you apply it, your only picking up the lume with the oiler and applying it to the dial, no rubbing involved... It does turn black if you mix with a oiler, but applying it is fine... Don't ask me, I only use the stuff, not design it.... RG

A suggestion that could save you ruining a watch. If there is a problem with the crystal, then you risk it blowing off when you release the pressure...what I mean is this... You close the tester with the watch out of the water, then pressurize and let it sit for a few minutes... Then you immerse the watch in the water, and release the pressure all at once to see if there is a leak (the theory being that if the seals are bad, pressurized air gets into the watch case, and when it's under water and you release the pressure, this pressurized air inside the watch case will leak out - and you see bubbles...) The risk is this, the crystal has been known to fly off when you suddenly release the pressure, thereby ruining the watch...as it is sitting under water and will fill up... Best to try this, pressurize the chamber, with the watch above the water, then release the pressure with the watch STILL above the water...if you have a loose crystal, better to have it fall off in the water and the watch remaining dry, than have it happen UNDER water...that would ruin your day... Just a suggestion... RG

I see the picture where the watch has been submerged, but there is still pressure on the guage. For the test to work, you have to release the pressure, and then look for bubbles...or are the pictures out of sequence? Nice tester by the way, not my cup of tea as I dont' have one and probably never will... RG

That is possible, not sure if they all fit, some didnt' some did...depends on the model and the gear...cant' remember which ones did and did not... RG Nothing but a straight swap, dial and hands swapped over to the new movement, done deal... RG

I put a small amount of poweder in the cup, add a bit of varnish and mix it up until thick like when your nose runs if you have a cold...not too thick, and not too thin, it has to be smooth. Then only as you use it do you add the dilutor and only a small amount to get the lume thick again...too much dilutor and the dilutor will take the paint off the dial, or cause the existing lume on the watch to bubble up and peel off, or stain the dial from the gas that comes from the dilutor... So, powder, some varnish until thick like pea soup, then a small amount of dilutor each time it gets too thick... Make sure you always mix with the glass rod as metal will dissolve and turn the lume black... Good luck and have fun... RG

And if it makes you feel any better...happened to me just the other day on a MBW as well...just after a service and casing the movement...and I have done this hundreds of times...but it can happen to anyone... RG

Just saved some of my latest posts in my subforum so they would not get lost...hence the reason you see them again today in the "View new posts..." RG

If you removed the stem with the keyless works in any position other than the winding one, there is a real possibility that when you reinstalled the stem, the sliding pinion fell out of the yoke... Try removing and reinstalling the stem - in the winding position - and see if it works, if you can only get 2 positions on the crown and not the time setting one, it's broke and needs to be taken apart to be fixed...much too difficult to try and explain, and not a good idea as a first teardown of a movement as the keyless works is quite complex. RG

Here is the link 7750 hand sizes... RG

This won't work... The new Asian 7750 does NOT have the same hand sizes as the Swiss 7750, therefore buying hands for a Swiss 7750 is not an option... New Asian 7750 hand sizes, old ones, and swiss was just covered in a recent post I did... RG

Great info and pics, I have never seen this model in person. Thank you. RG

Here is one link... Crystal replacement... and another...lots of info in this subforum... Crystal cyclops... RG

Looks great, nice work. You need a 3mm tap for the tube threads. RG

Can't help with the Microset...as I dont' own one...only bad thing I have heard about them is the quality of the microphone. But I have no personal experience with them. I have a Vibrograph B200A myself, it's older, but an equivalent replacement is far too expensive...and the B200A will do everything I need to get done... Mikellem has good results with his microset, so that's good enough for me... RG