RWG Technical

Excellent news, so that means that the ETA balance wheel can be installed on the new [censored] and fix the problem for good... Thanks for this... RG

The three I have seen were defective as built, this is not a problem that occures over time, or due to wear, it's an assembly defect when they put the hairspring onto the balance wheel. It exists out of the factory, and why your seeing it cause a problem later on, could be just due to the hairspring almost touching the balance [censored], and then shifting a little bit, and touching from as you say a slight jar or whatever... It would take years for the balance wheel pivots to wear down, and even if they did, were talking about a crooked hairspring in these watches...if the hairspring was paralell as it should be, it would never ever touch the balance [censored], even if the balance pivots wore down to nothing... So far, of the three I have worked on, all three were defective, some worse than others...but defective nonetheless... If you have one of these, and it works good, then leave it alone...it may always work fine...who knows... RG

Exactly correct, the pallet [censored] is not the problem, only the way you identify this model... The one and only problem, is that the hairspring is attached crooked, and touches the balance [censored]. I have not tried a new balance yet, and I don't have a movement in house to test it on...it's the same speed as the ETA 6497-1, at 18,000 BPH...so maybe the ETA balance will fit directly... Replacing the balance requires the same first steps as shown here, i.e. the balance and hairspring have to be disconnected from the balance [censored] and the new one secured in place...not for beginners... Thanks for clearing up the apparent confusion on the pallet [censored], vs balance hairspring... RG

Well, the mainplate MAY? have been a Swiss 6497-1 at some time, but as you noted, why is there so many differences between this model, and a genuine ETA 6497-1??? The "ETA" mark is not identical to the Swiss one, a bit different, and not as crisp and clear... So in my opinion, not Swiss, certainly the balance wheel is NOT Swiss... Maybe yes, maybe no... I can't really tell...so far, 4 out of 4 models have the problem...so the odds are that it will fail at some point. If it's working fine, I would leave it alone. No need for attention if it's not broken... Of all the movements I service, this is the first time I have noted a problem on the balance wheel with a bad hairspring... I am not sure if the ETA Balance and Hairspring would fit on this model or not, it is a 18,000 Beat model so the ETA may(??) fit... Your welcome, glad you got something out of it... RG

Have only noted it on the movements with the engraving directly on the bridges. Not on the other models...so far... Lets hope this is an isolated problem. RG

Not in all cases... The first one I had of these, I noted the different pallet attachment as soon as I took it apart for servicing. Other than this difference, and the dial attachment, I did not take note of any problems... Once the movement was assembled, and I put it on the tester to check the beat and rate, I noticed that the beat and rate were doing funky things when the movement was dial side up. After looking and trying to find the problem, I noted the hairspring issue and fixed it. Since that time I have seen 2 more, with exactly the same issue... I suspect the reason that the problem doesnt' show up immediatly on all of them, is simply that the attachment of the hairspring is not secure, and a small bump or shock moves the hairspring a little bit and it touched the balance [censored]..... It's simply a manufacturing defect or inattention when installing the hairspring, once corrected it should be fine... RG

No time left tonight, just a quick bump for updated new pictures re-sized... Only noted this problem on this particular movement, it's a hairspring attachment issue, nothing to do with oiling or wear or time or whatever...it's a Defect of the movement...and so far, I have seen 3 of these models, and ALL 3 had the exact identical PROBLEM...so I think the odds are against this model...3 for 3 is not good in my exprience, and if you add orlean's one, that's 4 for 4... Will try and add more tomorrow if I have time, sorry to run, first day back at school for the children tomorrow...have lots to do... RG

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Very nice work as always... Great pictures, looks really nice, you did a great job. RG

Just because it has to be shaken to get the watch started, it may not be due to the beat being off... the beat could be out of adjustment, but without the benifit of testing the watch on a watch timer, there is no way to know for sure... Beat being out is a problem in many ways, overbanking, inconsistant rate (running fast or slow) and the fact that the pallet and balance are not in sync is not good. It may damage the watch, but most likely it will only be an annoyance... It's like the timing on your car being off, it still runs, a bit rough, and gas mileage is not as good, but it will still get you to the store... RG

Sounds like it is a common problem I have seen, and have to do a post on to warn everyone... I have all the pictures but have not had time to get the post done... You have one of the new movements, see the pallet arm, it's only attached on one side, and this is the way to tell this new movement from the old ones...it's not a good model, and has problems, the one you have... The problem is that you have one of the new movements that I have just started to see...and everyone of them, including yours from the picture, has the same problem, the hairspring is bent...and when you turn the watch over, the hairspring is touching the balance [censored]... You can see in your picture that the hairspring is almost touching the balance [censored] right now, as soon as you turn it over, it moves a bit (it should move) and by moving the hairspring touches the [censored] and the watch stops... I have fixed these when I have worked on them, the fix required removing the balance hairspring from the stud arm, making it straight, and then gluing it in place again... I hope to have time this weekend to post this movement, and how to recognize it when you see it, and what the problem is on all of them... This is a movement to stay away from, it's got problems that only a watchmaker can fix... Yes it can be fixed... RG

How I got scammed by a phone company on my travels in Europe… I’ll try and give you the short version, but if your traveling anywhere, beware of this scam…it cost me some money… In France calls to Canada were about 0.10 euros per minute, in Germany and Austria, the calls were running 1.00 euro per minute. I am in Reutte Austria, and the pay phone does not take cash, nor does it take phone cards…but on the phone there is a placard (official looking one at that) with a phone number and instructions for placing calls, and it will take your Visa (I know, I know…believe me I have beaten myself up over being so stupid…). The phone number you dial is 0800 0008 016, and then your asked the language 1 English, then the country 2 Canada, and you enter your Visa and make the call…so far so good… Being the type of person that bases what happens today on what happened yesterday or when I did the same thing before, I figured the calls would run about 1 euro per minute. Why not? That had been the charges so far in Austria… So I make 2 calls, each for about 1 minute (no one was home, I left a voice message…). Next day, I called from Reutte to Fussen (12 miles, 15 Km away) to book castle tours…it’s early morning, I am not fully awake, and when I do what I did yesterday, someone comes on the line and says “International Operator, can I help you?” I am confused, I called the same number as yesterday, and the calls went through direct…who is this person… “Why am I talking to you, I want to call Germany, can you tell me how to dial it…” “No I can’t, but I can put the call through for you…” “What do you mean you can’t tell me how to dial it, it’s only a call from Austria to Germany, aren’t you a Austrian operator.. what is the numbers I dial, 001, or 011 or whatever…” “I am in the USA, and I have no idea what you should dial, but I can put the call through for you…” Now normally, I would stop right there and think really hard before I agreed to this, or at least ask if there was a fee, but early morning, pressure to get tickets, all messed up my brain…so I said “Well if this is the only way I can make the call, go ahead and place it…” Which he did, total time on the phone when I got through to the ticket office, 2 minutes or less (remember this for later…) Later the same day, I place another call, being more awake this time, the operator came on again, and I asked if there were any fees…answer: “If I place the call for you, the cost is $15 for the first 5 minutes, and about $1 for every minute after this…” “Hmmm, let me think about this, NO, thanks anyway…” and I hung up. Now this was the first time I was told any fees, and based on what she said, I figured that the three calls I made would be no more than $15 each, for a total of $45…expensive, but I could live with it…my mistake. Note that at no time was I told what the charges would be from the first operator, and when I dialed the numbers myself, with no operator, I was not given the chance to even know the rate they would charge, and the placard (official looking on above phone) did not have any rates listed… Normally you (me the customer) has to be informed of the costs, BEFORE you decide if your willing to pay the charges… Ok, still with me, it gets better… Get home, go on line, check my Visa statement. Well, well, well, what do we have here… I check my Visa, I was billed for 4 calls (only made 3 that went through), and 3 of the calls were $38 EACH, and the fourth call was $43…WOW… Remember my call from Reutte to Fussen, that is the $43 call for 2 minutes of talking…for a distance of 15 km… To make a long story longer, I called Visa, filled a complaint and they are investigating…I filled a complaint with the FCC against the company (as they are based in the USA) and then call the company to ask some questions… They have a 1 800 number you can call, note this, 1 800 576 5402 if you want to give them a shout… I called and asked for their website (wanted to download their policy and charges…) “The website is www.sattellitecommunicationscompany.com, all one word…” I try it, no website…so I call back…getting a bit annoyed… “Sorry we don’t have a web site, I can answer all your questions verbally…” “What are the fees” “$10-$15 connection fee, then $3.99-$5.99 per minute after this…” “Strange, I was not told this by your operator before…so I need a copy of your policy, how you inform people of the charges BEFORE they make the call, and what is your agreement and terms with the FCC…” “I can answer your questions verbally, we don’t have anything in print, we only deal in verbal answers, now if you give me your VISA number, I can have a look for you and explain everything and answer your questions…” Needless to say, the conversation did not get any better after this, and NO I did not give them my Visa number, I may be dumb, but not stupid… So my message is simple, don’t ever ever use your Visa overseas for phone calls…it’s a rip off… Not sure if I will get any of my money back, Visa will do what they can in their investigation, but for reference, these 3 calls, totaling about 3-4 minutes cost me $160…highway robbery, especially in today’s long distance world… So if anyone lives close to Reutte, go to the campground next to the sportsplatz, and the payphone at the entrance to the campgroung, tear off the placard to help stop others getting ripped off as I was…hard lesson learned, but that was my only scam in 3 weeks, not bad… Note those numbers, NEVER call 0800 0008 016 for long distance calls, and if you are in a bad mood and want to vent and scream at someone, please call 1 800 576 5402 and tell them they ripped you off for phone calls and that you have filled with the FCC to shut them down… Hopefully this will save someone else from this scam… Thanks for reading… RG

Thanks for clearing up my comments, but I am still not clear on the retainer ring being upside down, it should be installed with the cutout for the stem facing up, which it is in both of your pictures, so I am still not clear on that point...maybe the fact that only one case clamp was installed was the reason it was falling out... or maybe the pictures are hard to tell how it was installed. Normally, you can't install these rings the wrong way, they don't fit. My apologies for misunderstanding your comments... Well based on this new information, it would seem as if indeed someone was inside the watch...I have seen missing clamps, or loose clamps, but never damage on caseback, or dial damage...so whoever opened it left some damage...thanks for the clarification... I take your word for it, hard to tell from picture... No problem on this, if ever you need some parts, just ask...I have a lot of stuff in stock in the shop...better to ask than send a watch back missing parts. I am not going to get into the middle of what may have happend to the watch...I too get some weird stuff "My watch is working PERFECT, only needs a service...", when I get the watch, it's not working at all...and broken...and I know it did not happen in the mail. So I know what your saying. We all have to start somewhere...there should be enough posts in my section to get you started on most of the basics, and the Time Zone watchmaking course is really good...some books to read up on as well...all it takes is time, practice, practice, practice, and did I mention - practice... If you need a case clamp, send me your address on pm and I'll mail one and a screw to you... EDIT "...and I will mail you a case clamp and screw." damm french brain screws up my writing... RG

No one ever accused me of not telling it as I see it, or being honest... RG

Having the tools is one thing, having the experience and know-how is another... Your taking on one of the most difficult movements there is for your first watchmaking project, without any prior experience, there is a really good chance that you will end up destroying or damaging the movement beyond repair, I hope your using a asian movement for your experement that is already broken... I am still not really clear why you even want to take it apart, without a case for it to go into, I am not sure the reason to do it... The only thickness your going to save is the rotor...you cant' take anymore of the movement apart as it's all needed to make the chrono work...so unless your planning on not having a working chrono...you can only remove one part to make it thinner...the rotor... The thickness added by the rotor is about 1mm or so...not enough to make any noticeable difference, actually the difference between a 7760 manual wind, and a 7750 auto, is exactly 0.90mm...so why bother at all... RG

Hands will not fit, dial feet will have to be cut off and the dial glued to the movement, new stem required, most asians have a plastic case retainer ring which will not work on the swiss one...and the cost of all the parts and the time to do the work, is probably close to $150-200... Cheaper to simply buy a Swiss powered model... RG

I dont' know either of the members here, but I would like to comment on the comments about parts being installed upside down. In your first picture you say that the "metal retainer ring is installed upside down...", I am guessing your referring to the "case clamp" the small piece of metal in the upper right side, silver in colour, and with the screw into it. It's a case clamp; the retainer ring is normally the part between the movement and the case. As for it being upside down, I can only assume that your referring to the bend in the case clamp facing the wrong way...truth be known, there is no upside or downside for case clamps. The determining factor as to what way to install the case clamp, is how does the movement retainer ring to the case clamp groves and the movement itself line up. Installation is based on all these factors, with the important points being, excerting as little pressure on the movement but enough to keep everything solid and secure... On some watches the case clamps are perfectly straight, on some they have a bend and the bend goes in the downward direction, on others, the bend goes in the upward direction, it all depends on the watch and using your expertise and skills and knowing what your trying to do with the clamps... Having said that, I see many watches with the clamps missing, which was the case on this one, to say that someone was in the watch and messed it up and forgot to install the case clamp, is a stretch. Same as for the fallen out lume, it's a defect of the watch that's all...happens all the time... The first picture shows the case retaining ring and the movement sitting perfectly flat in the case, the case clamp is installed correctly. However, your last picture where you turned the case clamp around you can see that there is a problem... it looks like the retaining ring is popping out of the watch next to the stem and crown compare the first and end pictures, from the angle that is what it looks like. The watch should have both case clamps on it, installing only one case clamp, and putting it upside down so that there is excessive pressure on the movement and dial, having the retaining ring poppping out of the case (from what it looks like in the photo), is not the right way to do this type of work... The correct fix would be two case clamps, installed so that there is no pressure on the movement, and also no play... RG EDIT Just want to add that my comments are based on the pictures, it's hard to tell the exact position of the case retainer ring...looks like it's popped out near the stem...in any event, should have 2 clamps installed...I have spares...

Thanks to the generosity of members Phoband, and Pugwash, I am able to have my capabilities list embedded in my signature, and linked to a web page so that it's easy to download and review...no need to send me a PM for this info anymore. This kind gesture will save me countless hours at the keyboard having to answer emails and PM's, and as much as I asked to compensate them for their time and efforts, I was told that there was no need for it ... I am so thankful not only for the suggestion, but also the generosity - thank you gentleman, I dont' know what else to say. So if you need my info, it's now linked from my signature. I may have this upgraded to allow email in the future, have to think it over and see if it would be a good idea. I never hid my pricing, anyone who asked for it, got the word doc. Should be self explanitory and straight forward, 4 pages of stuff, but needed to cover everything... RWG at it's best, when members step up to help others...thank you. RG

Great pics, and welcome back. RG

They look great... RG

Great looking watch, and nice to see a cooperative effort between members to have such a nice result at the end... Thanks for the great info and pictures. RG

I am not sure what this means...can you clarify it for me plse... RG

Of course some of them did, my standard response was "Accent? I dont' have an accent at all, if anyone has an accent it's you..." I especially love it when I speak french to them, and they reply in Engrish...I stay in french and throw them off... RG

Thanks for the welcome... I send you an email over the weekend, it should have arrived by now (or not), send them as discussed and it will get taken care of. RG

It was a disapointment that my time in Paris, coming and going, was so short and we could not get together...it was however real nice speaking to you on the phone. Next time... Shoot me a email, and we will get it scheduled... RG