RWG Technical

New PAM Crown review and comments Been busy at the bench since I took a hiatus from the forums. I got this new crown in the other day for installation. I thought it appropriate to post this now, not in September when I come back from holidays…I hope you enjoy the review… This is the new crown provided by member PAM(? Plse correct me on the board name), I am not sure what version this one is (the first batch were bad?) as I remember some problems with the first run. This is the 2.0mm one… Here are some general views, initial inspection is positive, machining is nice and well done, and the fit on the case is good, meaning it actually fits the hole in the case, and the case tube also. Not all cases are identical, so I hope this crown will be generic enough in the dimensions that it will be usable on all models without modifications. So here it is on the stem side, Here is a closer view of the stem insert part, note that they only tapped about 1/3 or so of the stem hole, about 3 threads worth…it would have been much better to use a bottoming tap and go all the way down to the end of the hole. The swarf (left over metal shavings) from the tapping is all jammed up in the bottom of the hole, you can get it out with a small pin, I recommend that you remove these metal shavings as soon as you get the crown to minimize the risk of a piece falling into the movement and ruining your day… Here is the new crown inserted into the case to check the fit, so far so good, it actually fits fine… Side by side comparison of the new and the original one. The new one is at the top. So far it’s looking like the crown will be a workable upgrade, but this view shows an area of possible concern, note the almost twice as deep recess in the outer part of the crown…this will be a problem as you will see… As I suspected, this recess is going to be a no-go as far as using the crown. The Crown Guard Lever sits against the Crown, and this pressure is what holds the lever in place and prevents it from flopping around. If the new crown is twice as deep in recess compared to the old one, where does this leave the CG Lever when it’s in the closed position….not touching the crown is where it leaves it… The only way to correct this problem is to get a new CG that has not been cut down and hope it’s long enough to touch the new crown… If you want to see what your up against in missing depth, this view is of the new crown installed, and pulled away from the case, until it just touches the CG lever…this is the amount of space you have to compensate for…new CG is the only fix… I also noted that the crown stem hole is drilled crooked, have a look at these pics and you can see it… It’s noticeable in person when you spin it on the stem, and really noticeable when the crown is installed in the case, not only visually but physically when you turn the crown and try and wind the watch…I tried to capture the angle in the pics… So it seems as if this one is not going to work…no idea on what version this one is and if the latest versions have corrected these defects. However if the recessed crown head depth on all versions are the same as this one, then you have to buy a new CG along with the crown if your going to do this upgrade. I can’t say if a new CG and lever would actually fix this problem, as I don’t have one to try out. Although we seem to think that these “Reps” are “cheaply” made, this example and the others where custom parts are trying to be made, only goes to show that there is a lot of skill, research, and close tolerances needed on these replacement parts if they are going to work…not to mention testing and actually trying them out and making sure that they work – before offering them to the members here… In this case, this doesn’t work…not without a new CG anyway… Hope your summer is going well, mine is great… Thanks for reading, see you in September (unless of course I end up with another new item to review…) Oh, and the fellow who owns this watch, and the Breitling and the Rollie (movement issue), I'll be emailing you tonight to give you an update on the work, (Briet is still running within a minute a day or better...) RG

Review of new Cyclops installation on PAM models Although I took the summer off from visiting RWG and TRC, I am still busy at the workbench with various projects. One of these projects is the new Cyclops installation and testing on the PAM models. This has been on the go for a while, and I have been waiting and saving space to do the trial installation. The parts arrived at my door Friday, and I got time Sunday to do the actual install. Although I am keeping my word on being away from the forum until September, this was a prior commitment and I need to post it before September. This is NOT a how-to exercise or post, for a couple of reasons, 1, you need at the minimum a case back wrench and experience removing and installing movements to do this mod, (not hard to do, as there are helpful posts in my sub-forum on this particular task), 2, you must have a crystal press and UV glue to get the Cyclops glued to the crystal and re-installed. If you have these tools you already know how to do the work, and therefore a how-to is useless, if you don’t have the tools, it’s not very economical to go out and buy them for this one time job…unless of course you want to set up to do your own work (never a bad idea…). In any event, you can figure it out by what I will cover in this post, and if you decide to do it yourself, you should have little problems, as it’s straight forward and simple. Here is what I have on the bench for the trial, 3 PAM’s… So the first things you need to do are: 1, remove the case back, take the movement out of case, and, 2, remove the crystal so you can get the Cyclops off. All of these steps are covered in detail in various posts in the repair and upgrade section under my subforum… Removing the Cyclops Now comes the hard part (sort of) that is removing the Cyclops from the crystal. There may be various ways of doing this, I only know of one way and that is by heating the Cyclops with a BBQ lighter and slicing it off with my case back knife. What I do is to hold the crystal with heavy leather gloves, and put a flame on it from a BBQ lighter for about a minute, at least long enough that I can feel the heat through the gloves (so hot that I can’t stand the heat). Then I hold the crystal straight up and down on a counter, and with my case back knife slice the old Cyclops off. It takes two things to get this to work right, one you have to get the glass really really hot, and two, you have to press really hard with the knife to get the Cyclops to come off…most times I end up chipping a small part of the Cyclops, so it’s really a one way mod, as the old Cyclops gets damaged 8 out of 10 times during removal. I have not tried any hotter flame such as a Torch, as I am not sure what may happen to the crystal. Too hot - too fast - and it may shatter, if you ever had a sapphire crystal shatter (I have had it happen) it ain’t a pretty sight, as the crystal is under much stress and it literally explodes… BBQ (BarBeQue) lighter works for me… Once the Cyclops and crystal are apart, you get this… You can see the burn marks from the lighter on the crystal. Some glue may be left where the Cyclops was attached, and I scrape it off with a knife, no risk of scratching the crystal, it is sapphire after all… once I get the glue scraped off, then I clean the glass with Acetone and buff it up with a lint free cloth. Reinstallation the Cyclops Now before you can put the new Cyclops and crystal back in the case, you have to reinstall the movement and put the stem back in place etc. Why? Well simply because you need to have the movement and dial in the case, secured in it’s proper location before installing the crystal. Otherwise you have no reference for where the Cyclops should be positioned. So after the movement is lined up and secured in the case, we move on to the crystal again. I put a drop of UV Crystal cement on the Cyclops, and place the Cyclops on the crystal in the approximate location. Approximate as I can’t determine the correct location for the Cyclops until the crystal is installed in the case. I temporarily install the crystal in the case, and look at the position of the Cyclops in relation to the date. Since the crystal is much farther out now than when it’s pressed in place, there is considerable distortion and you have to get the Cyclops in what you think is the best position, the final test will be once you press it down in the crystal press. If it’s not right, you have to start all over again… Remember that the UV glue does set up fairly quickly and you have to work fast, once the glue sets up, you have to start all over again and remove the Cyclops as we did initially…the only advantage is that although the glue is set up, it’s not as hard as once it’s fully hardened. So there is little risk of chipping the Cyclops during this removal… So if you have read this far, we now have the crystal in place and lined up with the date window. And here is what it looks like… Here are some side by each views of the before and after, on the black dial models, as hard as I tried to reduce reflections (my GF who is a professional photographer tried to help as well…) I could not get a clear shot without some reflections… Once your all done, you have to remove the movement from the case, and let the glue harden, either with a UV light, or by putting the watch outside in the sun for a few hours (inside won’t work as the windows block UV light). After the glue is hard, you have to remove the crystal again, and clean the residue of the glue off with Acetone and then do the installation all over again… You could try and clean the glue off without removing the crystal, but I think it’s better with it out of the case so you can work on it and make sure it’s clean and there is no residue. So that’s the end results, I was asked to do the install and share my results with you…which I have done…now I will again sign off for the summer…which means I won’t be offering feedback to any questions. From what I have heard, I am glad I am away from the forum for a few months…I need the break from the politics and accusations…and if your not careful and nice to me, I will put the Hex Of the Black Chicken on you too…. Thanks for reading, RG

If it was planned for July, then were still on (not at home so I can't see the calendar...). Shoot me a email as the PM here is turned off for the summer. RG

I am off for the summer and won't be back until September. Have a great summer. Cheers, RG

Hi everyone, Summer is finally here and it’s time for a change of pace. I have many things to get done around the house during the next couple of months, but I find that I am spending too much time here, and not enough time taking care of other issues… I have a full workbench until the end of July, and I will be in Europe for all of August (taking my sons back to where they were born and raised before they leave home for good…sniff…), so with this message, I am signing off for the summer. After today, I won’t be logging on to the forum until September. While in Europe I plan on getting together with Palpatine in Germany, and maybe with Bricky and a few others when I am in Austria. I expect that if we do meet up, they will let you know all about it… I expect that when I return, the outstanding questions and unresolved issues from the past couple of weeks will be taken care of - to everyone’s satisfaction. The numerous messages from members who have turned to me for support during this difficult time, has been unsettling to say the least. For everyone’s benefit, there are some hard questions that need to be answered, and people need to regain lost trust…only one person has the answers, and so far has chosen to be silent on the issue…that is really unfortunate. I hope I am able to bring more informative posts in the fall…until then, have a great summer… Cheers, RG

Good point, the fellow who has a Honda that is giving him troubles, is not comforted by the fact that mine has been trouble free for 10 years... It would be interesting to look at these watches and find and report on the problem, so that it could be determined where the problem actually is. Is it assembly errors, ancillary parts (crown, stem etc), or the movement having problems... I understand that it's no comfort to you the experiences I have had on the bench and first hand, I can only report on what I see...remember the Moljina movement, and the rust problems, once discoverd and noted on more than one model, I updated the post and changed my position... I have been wrong before, never a problem admitting that part, I just hope these are isolated cases and not affecting all units out there...since the initial impressions are good... RG

I will when I get home tonight... Thks for the kind words, RG

If you have a Asian 7750 6-9-12 model (ie real 7750 not a 7753), it is identical to the Swiss ETA 7750 - everything - it's an exact clone - identical in every way...so yes, it's interchangable... Rotor has a stuck on plate normally, I would use the ETA rotor and glue the plate on it... So remember, Asian 7750 is identical to ETA 7750 in every way... RG

Not in my experience, if you have a 7750 layout (6-9-12 subdials) then a ETA 7750 is a direct drop in movement, day - date - etc all line up and fit perfectly... I have done many of these transplants, and all my measurements show that all Asian 7750's (NOT basterdized 7753's) are identical to the ETA 7750's... Best value on these models is to install a gen ETA in place of the Asian, if you can get a gen at a good price (Ebay). You can even get used gen dials for cheap $$$ on the bay and install one of these as well... RG

Wont work, the date wheels on a 7750 (Asian is a 7750 modified to be a 7753...) is smaller than the datewheel on a 7753. So you can't replace the asian with a ETA 7753... @quarks Glad you like the results, on the "c" lettering, I can't remember doing anything to it, so maybe dirt was on it and I removed it when I cleaned the dial??? Funny on the lume comparison, every once in a while I get comments back that the lume doesnt' perform very good and they think it's no good... The comment is that the lume is not visible as bright green glowing -in some cases people expect it to glow bright green in direct sunlight.......sigh... The Super lume is designed to work in the dark, if you can see the watch - you have no need of lume to tell the time...however, this Super Lume works amazing in the dark. I have all the watches lined up each week on a dresser in my room, waiting to get shipped home. If I get up at night to use the bathroom, I can see the glow of the watches as they sit there in the darkness...it's so amazing...if you understand the limitations and reasons for the Super Lume, I think it performs very well... Thanks for the kind words, appreciated. This was one of the longest turn times, only due to the fact I was gone for 10 days on business... and even then, total time was about 4 weeks, not bad from Australia to Canada and return... and considering the movement type and work done... RG

Almost every question is answered in this section, here is a post that covers this one... Have a look at the rest of the posts in this section, they cover a lot of stuff... 7750 transplant...click here...

Have a look at my last answer... RG

Well I don't think one or two examples out of thousands of movements makes for all of them to be bad. I have serviced a dozen or more of these - and so far have been lucky(?) to not have any with problems...not to say there aren't any out there.... There are plenty of examples of many other movements with issues, these are after all mechanical items and as such are prone to have problems. Your initial problem you identified at the beginning of the post is a crown problem, it's got nothing to do with the actual movement. As for a great wheel failing as finepics mentioned, they do fail, after all they are under tremendous stress at full wind...stuff happens, but of the thousands of movements being made, is this enough to state that everyone should stay away from these models? If the movements never failed, then why would ETA have such a great parts newtork built up to support their movements??? By comparison I have been getting many ETA Genuine 2892A2 types in that are not working right, they all have a common defect and now that I have seen it, and found a fix, I can get them working again... Does this mean we should stay away from the ETA 2892 series? I don't think so... It's all relative to your experience. If you have a Honda and it's a POS, your view is tainted, my Honda at 10 years old, is just now needing a new exhaust system - first defect in the car in 10 years of driving - and consider the climate and salt on the roads where I live...so to me Honda is a great car. As for assembly and quality control and quality of the parts compared to ETA, I can't see any noticeable difference. Teardown a Genuine ETA and you'll quickly see that they are in it for the quantity, not quality... I stand by my review and initial and ongoing impressions of this movement... RG

If the breitling dial is a 6-9-12 layout then a ETA 7750 is a direct fit, no mods are needed (just finished doing one last week...). I can't keep the dial layouts straight on the breitling models, there are too many variations... Ebay is the best place to find cheap? ETA 7750's, but you have to be careful as many are asian not ETA...see the post in this section with the pictures so you can tell the difference on your own... RG

The stem and crown have to disengage for you to be able to screw the crown down. In other words, when the crown is unscrewed from the case, the stem locks to the crown and both turn as one, as soon as you go to screw the crown to the case, the stem to crown are supposed to disengage and the stem stays fixed, and the crown turns independtly so it can be screwed down... What you describe is that they are NOT disengaging... problem is not the case crown tube, but the stem to crown clutch... RG

Looks like it's coming along really well... My only comment, no matter how thick we want the crowns to be, there is one really important factor that has to be considered if this is going to work... A too thick crown will not allow the crown to pull out enough to be able to move the keyless works from winding to time setting...so no matter what, if you can't change the time then it's not going to work. Can't wait to see them in person. RG

Yes, ONLY reset chrono if the seconds hand is between 10 and 2 on the dial... RG

If you line it up with the 12, and only reset when the seconds hand is between 10 and 2, it should be ok and not move again.. When you put glue on the hand, then you can reset anywhere and the hand will always go back to 12... If you have never done this, then it's probably not good to try and do it...it all depends on your skill level... I can't say if he scammed you or not, if the watch arrived with the hand offset, then you should talk to the seller... RG

Define "Superior" and then a better opinion can be given. Quartz in my mind will never be superior to any mechanical movement, no matter how accurate it is...accuracy doesnt' override a mechanical miracle in minuature... RG

On any of these models (7750 powered chrono's) you should only ever reset the chrono seconds hand Between 10 and 2 on the dial face Unless the hand has been epoxied and secured. You can't fix it with the buttons, the hand has to be moved on the post and re-aligned with the 12. Temporary fix is to open the case, remove the movement, move the hand and line it back up... Permanent fix is to glue the hand in place so it doesnt' move again... RG

I am not aware of your skill level and experience, so it's hard for me to answer this question. On this model the big issue is the size of the crystal. It's big as you know, and with the press you have shown, there are two issues, 1. Alignment and 2. Alignment... As long as you use the largest die and the case sits perfectly level and you can press it down even on all sides, it will work for you...but...these presses tend to either not line up well (meaning the dies are not perfectly paralell to each other) and or the dies tend to bend. I see that this one has metal dies, so maybe the bending is not an issue, so that leaves alignment. My press cost $600, and has Delrin dies, not metal or nylon ones (nylon bends like mad and is crap for dies). And I get sweaty palms when I have to press these large crystals in place, it takes a fair amount of pressure, and it's scary until it seats, as it can just smash into pieces... It's your call, I cant' tell you what to do or not due, but you should have a bit more info to help make your decision... RG

Asian copy... The test is to look at the balance stud and regulator, ETA is snapped in place ones, and Asian are screw stud and riveted regulator. See the other post in this section with pics etc so you can spot the difference. Other way is to look at the finish, ETA is a sandblasted look, Asian is chromed shiney look... Not worth $50... RG

Ah yes, that I am, an old trickster that likes to mess with you and tell you to put globs of vaseline on watches..."he he he...look Mildrid, I told him to put vaseline on a watch, and he's doing it..." typical Joe, twist the truth and make up stuff. The rest of your lies don't deserve a comment, I made my point with all the answers to your first set of lies...which you have chosen to ignore...as I said BS baffles some brains, but not all... It's really too bad that those that are sending me pm's and emails don't speak up about the overcharges and lies from you, come on folks, be honest and state your experiences...inquiring minds want to know...members want to know from you - not me...can't you tell, Joe doesn't like me anymore. Joe, I am not the one who has watches in house for months and customers complaining - you are! So stop wasting you time shitting on me, it's making you look bad (of 8 pages of comments, you choose to respond to me and namor...but more specifically me...) . You have work to do, simply get on with it and take care of your customers, I wont' bother you again with my petty comments...later mr....hmmmmm.....I can't think of a smart ass response without risking offending others, although you think nothing of it...shows your maturity... Get on with the work at hand...your still mad because I won't tell you how to lume, come on, move on with your life, you have enough to do without getting into lume work... I am off to bed, this is a dead horse and not worth the time typing responses... RG

Name one for the benifit of the forum, I have no problem customers... Childish, well I wonder how my comments on page one, resulted in this verbal gibberish... That wouldn't be the Comex sub I did. If I remeber your comments on eveyone's work, you were always negative towards each and every person who tried to do their own work, so that comment is just your normal negative Nellie not liking anyone doing anyting but you... Hmmm, so I charged $175 for the "Works package" and you charge $700 for the same work, I can link the thread if you like...you must be using the new math...wrong again... Sorry, wrong again sir, I have been around watches for 35 years, your into your second year, try again... Again, plse show me one customer that was not happy with my work, only one... I remember many of your watches ending up on my bench for repair, following your first tries at watchmaking, and you remember them as well... Very mature comments, as usual...keep deflecting the topic at hand... You simply hate the fact that I am willing to give to the forum and post informative posts, or the fact that I invented many of the procedures you are using today. If it wasn't for me, you would still be polishing golf clubs...you have a short memory and are the most ungrateful person I have ever met, I saved your ass many times...and you know it, I also taught you much of the stuff you know and use...remember? So do we, I just dont' understand you either...guess the summed up comment would be that you feel very threatned by me and what I know, so this is your way of confusing the issue. However this time, I will answer and rebutt each and every one of your comments because they simply aren't true... RG

Sorry no flames from me, I think in french and write in english, so it takes me time to get this all down...dont' be too disapointed... So rather than lower myself and get into a pissing contest - yet again I will keep it short and sweet (I knew without a doubt, that my single post would stir up a hornets nest. Joe your biting the hand that fed you...how soon they forget...). Well as expected, nothing has changed, Joe is still Joe, and flips out at the least comment I make, any of you ever wonder how my comment could stir up so much hate and resentment? I have never met anyone so vehemently against the person who got him started and taught him so much... Joe you have the shortest memory and are the biggest lier I have ever met. You may think that people are not smart enough to see through your lies, but your sadly mistaken... Rather than go on and prolongue the agony for those reading this, the long and short of it is this, you will draw your own conclusions and base your decisions on whatever turns your crank. I can't, and won't try and rebutt any of Joe's totally ludricous lies - and that's all they are lies, unfortunatly the truth is [censored] baffles brains, it always has, and it always will...prepare to be baffled yet again, and have the whole topic turned around so that everyone looses sight of the real issues... Those that know and have delt with me, know the truth - those that haven't, well believe what you will. Floor is yours Joe, have at it sir, everyone is listening... For the sanity of everyone here, this is it from me, please see page 1, and re-read my comments, then decide if the response from Joe is justified - given what I said. Then wonder why??? Cheers, RG