RWG Technical

So do the CN movements, ETA is not the be all to end all... I have never had any problems with these 6497 Asian movements, and my latest review shows that they are really good... I disagree, I have serviced dozens of these movements and can't support comments like this. Please, can you give us examples to back up your comments, or are these only opinions and not based on any facts or real data... My comments are based on real life experience and seeing many of these in person and examining them first hand... I see no reason that these movements should not last a lifetime. My watch-analyzer does not lie, these models work great and are very well made, as good as any ETA. RG

The fact that it's an older version is not a big problem, my original 7750 188 is 15 months old, use it all the time, works great, resets to 12 every time, chrono works fine etc... and it's the old original Asian 7750... RG

I have not seen the $1K models, my guess is they contain ETA 7750's and not asian ones...does it make a difference? Not really as I have had a number of ETA $1K ones in for repair... If you read the links, then you know the basic problem, asking a 4 cylinder engine to power a tractor trailer... As far as I know, there is only one movement with the post 2000 daytona layout - a genuine Rollie one... So there are no options other than the 7750 model...and I have made my views known about these and the problems they have... RG

If the running seconds subdial and center hole are in the same locations, then dial feet dont' matter. You can cut the dial feet off, file them flat, and then attach the dial to the movement with dial tape, it's a great solution... RG

This is the Old version, have a look at the comparison post I did up in this section, lots of pictures for comparison... New ones DO NOT have the regulator (regulator does not work anyway...so it's a waste of parts...). RG

Well then, please go ahead and get the required parts from the 2893, and perform the modifications on a 2836, and make a 2836-2 into a GMT movement using 2893 parts. I would be very interested in seeing someone do this work. We are always looking for technical posts, and I look forward to seeing your post on modifying a 2836-2 into a GMT model using 2893-2 parts, this would be much appreciated by the members here... I look forward to seeing your work, thanks, RG

Glass or sapphire crystals are retained by a plastic compression ring. The ring is about 1mm thick, and the crystal is a bit smaller than this. I have never had a crystal break, the only things I can think of are: 1. The crystal is too big for the hole and or the compression ring is missing... this is my first guess as per your description... 2. Your using a cheap press and the dies are bending and not putting even pressure on the crystal, is it's cocked off to one side, even a little bit, it will break. Although this is possible it seems unlikely to be the cause of your problem, I think #1 is more in line with the breakage. For ref, I have a crystal press, and all the dies are Delrin NOT Nylon, Nylon sucks for dies as it bends under pressure and distorts, and all the cheaper presses are using Nylon... But a good quality press with a good set of dies is $600...not cheap ... You dont' use any lube, insert the compression ring in the case first, make sure seated correctly, put the crystal in place, use an appropriate die, support the case, and press even until seated... Not sure if this will help or not... RG

There is not a lot that can be done with these bezels, I have not been able to tighten them up, it's just the way it is on some models...you can sometimes get them a bit tighter, but not always... I am not sure if you can fix it or not, I am not aware of your capabilities. On the gen dial, I thought the indicies were the only thing lumed ie the dots were lumed, not the actual numbers. But the number can be either lumed or painted to correct it. RG

Looks great, you think that's big, try one of these babies... RG

Congrats, all the best... RG

Very nice find, congrats. Wear it well. RG

Davidsen Chinese CN 6497-1 movement review and comments I have been, and continue to be, a big supporter of Davidsen, because he brings stuff to us that no one else has - Parts and more Parts… It’s almost impossible to source parts, and Davidsen has been a welcome addition to this place. I personally have bought hands and a dial from him, and am very pleased with the quality, and the ease of the transaction. Ok, enough of the background, lets get to the reason for this post. A few weeks ago, Davidsen asked me if I was willing to do a review of a movement he has available to him, namely a new Chinese (Asian) copy of the handwind 6497-1 movement. This movement is the mainstay of the PAM handwind models, and is very popular. There have been numerous versions and types produced lately, and they keep getting better and better. This one is a new one, and as for the details of availability and price, you will have to ask Davidsen, I am only doing the review, I don’t have these for sale… Specifications: - Chinese copy of a ETA 6497-1 - Beat 18,000 BPH - Power reserve (Guesstimate) 46 Hours - Longer Cannon and Hour wheels (no recessed pin problems) - Direct replacement of ETA or other 6497-1 movements Here is a general view of the movement as delivered, dial side, And back side. Very nice finish overall, and my initial impressions are good. Lets take some readings and see what we have…installed on the watch analyzer… Here is the readout on the timer… Note, no movements are delivered correctly oiled, or adjusted correctly, including most ETA models. The only models I have seen that are good as delivered are the ETA 7753 or 7750 movements, a $300+ movement. So please consider these facts before drawing any negative comments on this particular movement. For more reading on this, see my signature and the various movement review posts in my sub-forum. Here is the printout in various positions. This is one of the best readings I have had on a movement as delivered in a long time, the exceptions being the ETA 7753 or 7750 models. But for a 6497 movement, these readings are excellent. As delivered it’s running +5 seconds per day, consider that most are way off in beat, and lucky to be within +- 20 seconds per day… But that’s only part of the story, more important is the beat, on 99% of watches, this is out and needs to be adjusted, see here how good it is (at the end of the post I will show what a bad beat looks like, bear with me…) Dial Up, Dial Down And Crown Right and Crown Up, note how the readings are identical in all positions, a really good sign of quality of the parts and fit and finish… Compare these readings to when I am done the servicing… First thing I did was to remove the hour and cannon pin, and see how long they are. Well surprise, the first time ever, that the parts are the correct longer ones, which corrects the cannon pin recessed issue (for details on this, and other movement reviews, plse click on my signature and find the previous articles on these topics). Cannon and hour wheels, at correct lengths of 3,15mm and 2,15mm… Lets start taking things apart, and see what is in store for us… Bridge finish is really nice, How does the oiling look as we take it apart, here are some pics, No oil on this one, but that is normal… The rest were oiled, so that is quite good… WOW, even more surprising, is the fact that both balance jewels were oiled, this is the biggest problem on most watches that are not serviced…these are oiled well…most movements are completely dry… Screws are really blued, not painted, a nice touch, Lets see some detailed shots of the various parts and pieces, if you want to compare these to other 6497 models, see my previous posts… Well more surprises, this can be a big problem on many models, the concentricity of the balance hair spring, note the even spacing all around, a sign of quality and attention to detail… All done taking it apart, now lets give it a bath, I put the whole works into the Ultrasonic machine, So it’s back together, and lets give it a wind, and put it on the analyzer again, and make the required adjustments and see what we come up with. Here are the readings in the various positions, this is without adjusting anything, just fresh oil and cleaned up… Now remember the beat comment, here is what I am talking about. Here I move the stud arm on the balance wheel, to show you the beat and how it looks when it’s out of adjustment, after moving it out of adjustment, I put it back in beat and adjust the timing… Here is a view of a dial and hands installed on the movement, note NO recessed PIN problems…, what a big advantage and benefit to everyone (and that comment from the only one who can source and provide the longer cannon and hour wheel parts…tells you were my loyalties are, and my commitment to doing the “right” thing on the forum…). I am very pleased with this model, it’s well made, but you can judge that for yourself, it’s got many advantages over the other models: 1. Price (from what I am told) 2. Nice bridges and finish on them 3. Well made and good quality parts throughout 4. Longer Cannon pin and Hour wheel Yea! 5. It’s AVAILABLE and easy to get, what a great idea… 6. Analyzer does not lie, it’s a good running watch, and had good performance in all the positions. Should it be serviced as delivered? That has been debated for ages, and you know my view… use your own good judgment and do what is right for you. I want to thank Davidsen for putting his trust in me and providing me with this movement at his cost, for the benefit of providing information to everyone here on it’s quality, and overall performance. There is something to be said for someone willing to not just sell parts, but to want an unbiased review and comments before offering this up for sale. We need more of this technical input so members can make informed decisions and know the details of what is inside their watches. I wish I had more time to post more reviews, but I simply don’t have that luxury lately… Please keep in mind, that this is only my opinion and nothing else, and that there are variances in all movements - my review is of one sample only, I can’t predict what the rest of them are like. But based on my experience, the only variables in all movements are: oiling or lack thereof (which is bad on all watches, except the ETA 7753’s or ETA 7750’s), and the cleanliness of the movement, and the beat and rate adjustments. Overall I think this is an excellent movement, and given that it’s got all the right stuff, is a welcome addition for upgrades… Before you ask if the 18,000 BPH is a concern vs the –2 model with 21,600 BPH, my only comment is this: - the difference between a 18,000 and 21,600 beat model (apart from the slightly smaller balance wheel on the 21,600 model) is a measly 1/6 of a tick per second, this model ticks 5 times per second, the –2 ticks at 6 times per second. If you can see the difference of 1/6th of a second, displayed on a ¼ inch running seconds hand, then I say that you need to rethink the whole reason you get these watches, were really splitting hairs now… it’s not an issue or concern in my opinion. I hope you enjoyed the info and pics, till next time… Thanks for reading. RG

The fundamental problem is the movement itself, and the demands on it due to the running seconds at 6. I have covered this topic in great detail, here are two posts that explain it all out, have a read... Daytona Asian Daytona... Unfortunatly the cost of the watch does not have any bearing on the cost of servicing a chronograph movement, commercial shops typically start at $450 and up for servicing a chrono model... So reasonable cost as a percentage of price, doesn't really go together...after you read and view the pics in my two above links, you will understand the undertaking required to take one of these apart and service it... RG

I promise it will be worth the wait big boy... RG

I am home from from my travels for the past two weeks, and the Davidsen Chinese Copy of the 6497-1 movement is waiting for me. Davidsen asked me if I would do an unbiased review of the movement and post my comments here. He sent me the movement at his cost, and in turn I will review it for the members here and post my comments and impressions. I am expecting to be able to do a detailed review of it this weekend (Time permitting). First impressions are good, fit, finish, and quality of the parts looks great. A big added suprise is the fact that this model has the Longer Cannon And Hour wheels already installed...a great and much needed upgrade for all PAM's that suffer from the short shaft syndrome. The first thing I did was pull the hour and cannon pin off, and put them under the micrometer. They are within 0.01 mm of the ETA specs. So that is a good start. The other good part is the bridges are the correct PAM style ones, not the squared off ETA ones, so another plus in favor of the movement. First thing will be to put the movement on the timer, and see how it looks as delivered. So I hope to have something done up in the next 24 hours... Stay tuned and thanks for the continuing support and comments on the existing articles I have in my sub forum, if only I had more time or didnt' need to sleep...I could get more done... Cheers, RG

Excellent work, glad to see you giving it a try... Wonderful job all around, thanks for posting the pics. RG The answer to that question has already been covered in this post... The "Regular" lume in this post is the lume from Ofrei, that he mistakenly advertizes as Super Lume, it isn't, only the lume from RC Tritec is actual Super Lume... Lume comparison post. RG

Basic asian models are fine, complications only add problems to the movement. Basic models can be replaced with Miyota 8215 movements, complication models are scrap when they break... On the 7750, you need to have another read in this section, here you will find many articles on the 7750 and all the answers to these questions... and many more... All your movement answers at your finger tips...click here... RG

I will offer what I have seen in watch models, more so than the actual dealers, since I can't say for sure nor do I ask what dealer sold what watch I am working on...and I want to remain unbiased in my comments and reviews. Every Daytona with running seconds at 6 has had the new Asian 7750 in it. Every IWC model I have worked on has the new Asian 7750 in it. I have not seen the new Asian 7750 in any other models, or in PAM's specifically, such as the 188/196 etc... So, IWC models and running seconds at 6 Daytona's are the only ones I know about...with the new movement. RG

You can't get it, because ETA does not make it, this is a basterdized model and it's an add on to the basic movement produced somewhere in Asia by whoever... Only possible source in one of the sellers, Josh does NOT sell parts, so don't even bother asking, chances of finding one are slim to none. Only parts seller is Davidsen, maybe he can source one. If you want a GMT movement, your much better off getting a true GMT movement, not a basterdized one that you can't get parts for...that's how I look at these models... RG

Well I would not go as far as to say I have changed my mind, but have discovered some problems - that I fix during a normal service. So there is a problem with the pallet stones, but once glued in place the problem is fixed. Otherwise, I think the movement is very good, much better than the old one for sure. As for the difference, here is a cut and past from this same question that was answered in my subforum a while back. Have a look under watch repair, ziggyzone, and the Q&A area and also the main section with the toomstone posts, many of the tech questions are already addressed and covered. RG

Not unless your a watchmaker, and have access to the required parts to modify the movement, the skills and tooling to drill and tap the mainplate and install new gears etc etc...... It's like asking if you can take a pushrod engine and turn it to a overhead cam model, sure it can be done - if you have the skills and parts.... There is no source for these add on parts which modify a standard 2836-2 into a GMT model... RG

It's best to remove the stem in the winding position for many reasons...hundreds of watches repaired, all the stems removed in the winding positionk, and never a problem...what else can I say... It works for me. RG

Sounds like the pressure washer is missing on the hour wheel, and the hour and minute wheels have fallen off the gears... That is the only thing that comes to mind, you need to have a watchmaker have a look at it and see what the problem is, and replace or fix whatever he finds... RG

I only put one model in the time setting position for removing the stem - that is on the Moljina russian movement, all other watches I remove the stem in the winding position, and have never ever had any problems... And yes, I always push on the release when installing the stem... RG

Excellent detailed and informative review. That is what this site is all about. You have set a high standard for anyone to follow with this excellent post, thanks for taking the time to do this up, and I hope others can follow your excellent work. Great job, RG