RWG Technical

I hope a couple of things happen as a result of this thread, 1. People feel free to post their experiences good and bad, heaven knows it doesnt' always go well when working on these watches, I have had my share of screw up as well... 2. I hope that the original thread about the long delays of watches not being returned, gets fixed. That is the most important issue right now, getting answers or watches in the mail to the owners. I commend the civility of this post so far, on the old RWG it would not have made it past page 2 without turning into a shouting insulting match, thank god for civility. I wont' offer anymore on any of the points I raised, as it's not relevant to this topic and has been hashed out in the past. I hope the admin make some real progress and that answers are forthcoming to the members here. Not much else to say... RG

Much appreciated, when I get worked up my english suffers, hence the broken thoughts... I am sure many others will have stuff to say - so be it - I can't change the truth of what I have seen or heard from others. It's unfortunate, but reality. Just 'cause you don't like the truth, doesn't change the facts. There is much more to the story, but that's for a beer, not the forum...I have said all that needs to be said. Everyone is capable of drawing their own conclusions and make informed decisions... @ namor, your a brave man... RG

Well unfortuantly, I have been in the same position as you have been. Namely not willing to speak up, simply because when I did, I was flamed all over the board, people told me I was jealous of Joe and his skills (but people forget that many of his mods came from my my idea's, I invented or thought up, or from Bryan and his work on CG's etc...I taught Joe how to do many things, and spent hours on the phone helping him fix watches, because he did not know what he was doing...but some people have short memories when money is at hand...). When I asked questions about "Crystal repressing" and "Datewheel alignments" and $40 dust [censored]s on dials, I was [censored] on...so I said "It's not my money, if people think it's reasonable to spend $700 on a $159 watch, let them do it...it's not my problem trying to inform them..." I tried to shine light on this, but was shot down repeatly by many members on the old RWG, that is one of the biggest reasons I had enough of the old RWG and left. I have seen the same items your pointing out here on other people's watches, at the time I repeatly stated to the owners "PLSE post your experiences so that others will know..." but everyone is afraid to say anything...for fear of being flamed...so on and on it goes... I have been hearing for weeks now about members who have watches with Joe, and they can't get them back, I said to these people "Plse post your experiences on RWG so that everyone will be informed of what is going on..." finally some of it is being brought to light. Unfortunatly many won't believe you or I, and state that this is a anomaly and a one-off experience, but that doesnt' change the facts and problems you have experienced, or the experience of others who have been in the same situation. Getting that info posted in the open is very hard to do, no one wants to step forward. I could go on for days, as there is so much more that people dont' know or are willing to believe, I have washed my hands of the whole issue... The truth will come out, and when it does, many will stand up and take notice of what has been going on... RG

Very well said, my sentiments exactly. I fully support your point of view. Those who's watches are not being returned deserve an explination, 8 months does not seem anywhere near reasonable, nor does 2 or 5 months (some other numbers that members have told me). Facts are that people are not getting the answers they rightly deserve about their property and money. By bringing it to everyone's attention, at least it allows the rest of us to lend them support, and hopefully they will get answers and it will be resolved to everyon's satisfaction. The sooner the better. RG

Turn time depends on the work being done, I can only speak from my experiences. For example, a full overhaul on a chronograph model (7750 etc) at a commercial shop is 10 weeks on average. I estimate turn times of 1 week for relume, 2 weeks for a manual servicing, 3 for a automatic servicing, and 4 weeks for a chronograph movement, normally I do much better than these times... RG

I fully agree with that comment, no one has the intention of damaging anyone's reputation and good name. Waiting for months to get a watch back, or not sending a watch back when you said you would, is something that only one person can explain, lets wait and see what the answer is. Communication is one thing, having watches sitting for months, and accepting new ones, is another thing all together. I am sure there is a reasonable and plausable explination for all of this, till then, we can only wait until it's cleared up. RG

Wonderful and so well done post, I love it... Great job - no - excellent job, I love the pics, and the way you have laid out pictures and text, and added some nice genuine pics as well (or does yours have the lazer feature shown in the bottom picture...). You set a high standard to follow, thanks for doing this up for us, I know how much work goes into these posts, it's a big job. Now my 007 looks like crap after a year of wear and no polishing... RG

The point I am getting impressed upon me from those waiting is simply this: "All I want is to get my watch back, I am tired of waiting, I dont' care if the mods are done or not, I just want my watch back..." His latest illness started 3 weeks ago, not sure how this fits into months and months of waiting, and people not being able to get their watches returned prior to this - due to a problem less than a month ago... Or the fact that up until a few weeks ago, people were still sending in watches for mods. It only takes a minute to post "Don't send me any more watches...I am swamped..." If someone wants their watch returned to them, then by all means send it back, it's their watch after all... I am simply re-stating what is being pointed out here and via pm's and emails. Whatever the whole story is - it doesn't change the experience of those who are brave enough to stand up and state their concerns here. What is unfortunate is that people are scared to step up and ask questions, without the fear of being flamed from here to kingdome come... I have never understood this mentality, if we cant' ask questions and get answers, then what's the point. No one is above common courtesy and openess...yet some get jumped on if they dare ask a question about certain members....strange... Trust is earned based on performance and ability to stand by your word, not by how many posts you have, or how long you have been on the forum... RG

Amazing work and photography as ususal. Very nice, top notch as normal, but what else would we expect from you. RG

Unfortunatly, I have been keeping my mouth shut about what I hear from members for a long time now... Me not saying anything goes back a long ways, and simply comes down to joe and I not seeing eye to eye, and he taking offence to anything and everthing I say in certain situations. I have been hearing the same issues from many members for a couple of months now, that is "My watch has been with Joe for XX Months...and no resonse..." This concerns me as a board member, and the fact that the ones I hear from say exactly what I see posted here - "Joe has time to answer some people, but my repeated requests go unanswered - and he is soliciting new business..." Not sure where it will all end, I just hope it all gets sorted out - soon..... I have been encouraging those that are voicing their concerns to post about it on the forum, but until this post, it seems as if everyone is thinking the same thing, too scared to speak up for fear of reprisal...well I think people need to simply state their experiences, so that everyone can be informed, that is after all the reason for the board. Based on past experiences, this will probably solicit some flaming simply due to the fact of who I am - so be it - people must be free to state what is happening to them for everyone sake. RG

You can do two things, one cut the post off with a set of side cutters, but that will leave a small stub that will get in the way. Or, you can grind the post off with a dremel and cut off wheel. This is the best way, as the cutters can damage the jewel due to the shock as the post is cut off, it's quite hard metal. Dremel works fine, but before you do this, tape over the whole top of the movement, even over the post (just push it up through the tape). Once the movement is completely covered in tape (to keep contaminants out after you grind it) grind away and your all set. You should use a piece of rodico on the remaining post stub and the jewel it sits in to remove the remainder of the grinding stuff...otherwise it could cause problems if metal pieces get to where they shouldn't... RG

Most likely a copy of the Miyota 8215 model. That applies to simple running seconds in the center of the dial, not to complications on movements (ie moon, etc...) I think this has been covered in detail already, complications are problematic, plain and simple. Service is not the issue, parts quality, and availibility of spares is the issue...there are no spare movements or parts available for these models, and typically based on what I have seen first hand, these can and do fail. I end up with handfuls of these movements, and ship them out to members who want to practice and have some fun. Personally I stay away from these models, as I do from the others I mentioned in the above ratings. Otherwise, I think it's all been covered, if it's not on the list as a good movement - there is a reason for this...stick to the known models, with spare parts available, and you will get good value for your money. If you get something like a model with auto, running seconds at 9, and it's a asian whatever model, and it breaks, throw it out, you can't fix it... I have a number of these sitting here, that I can't get parts for, or replacement movements... RG

I can't imagine why the post would come out, and stay in the gear, that is a first for me. Any water damage visible on the post or the gear. If it was me, I would remove post from gear, and use structural epoxy to secure the post back into the movement. A new mainplate is probably as expensive as a new movement, so probably not worth replacing due to the cost. If it came out, I dont' think it will stay in place with pressing alone, something else is needed to hold it down... Let me know how it goes and if you have any success, if not, maybe I can help on my end... RG

Excellent news, so glad to hear it. If I can offer any assistance in any way, please let me know - it would be my pleasure. RG

Try again, wrong button clicked...

PM sent, some things are best discussed off the board... RG

All I can add to the already great answers is that the only ones that are a big problem are the Daytona with seconds at 6 models. 7750's basterdized to be 7753's are not prone to be problematic, the three transfer gears taking the minute counter from 12 to 3 on the dial, are not a big problem. Great answers and accurate info. RG

I have overhauled a number of these 2671 models, other than being really really small (whole movement will fit in a 6497 mainspring barrel) they tend to be reliable. My experience with any FM models, is typically the same, the problems are due to the hands and dial arrangements, namely hands jamming on hands and/or dial... fixing the problem is another issue, simply due to the hands themselves and getting everything to line up and clear each other... Try moving the hands and see if it starts to run again... RG

Some we have already seen, and they are good. Problem is getting these, I have tried in the past to buy various models, and the sellers are not willing to sell in small quantities, and there are no spares for any Asian movements, including Miyota, so that is another problem. But these look great, getting them is another story... RG

Great idea, I never thought of assigning letters to them. Here is how I would rank them based on my teardowns and hand-on experience. Grade A Movements · ETA 2892 series XX92A2, XX93-2 etc · ETA 6497-1, or -2 · ETA 7750, 7753 etc. Typically these don’t need to be serviced as delivered, clean, well oiled etc. Only issue is on some models (2892 series) they are ebauche’s and as such are delivered without the mainspring and balance. I know this because when I service these, the mainspring and balance cap jewels are dry and not lubricated yet the rest of the movement is… Grade B Movements · ETA 2824-2, 2836-2 etc · New Asian 6497-1 copy · New Asian 7750 · Asian Miyota copies (without complications) · Asian Venus 175 Some ETA 2824 or 2836 are surplus movements, and as such can be in need of service right away, not many, but once in a while a batch comes through. Asian 6497 are quite good, rugged movement and not in need of immediate service. New Asian 7750 is clean, but not oiled (of the half dozen examples I have seen), other issue is the pallet stones falling out due to poor varnish holding them in place. Grade C Movements · Old Asian 7750 · New Asian 7750 running seconds at 6 (Daytona model) Old Asian 7750 has cannon pin problems (slippage), dirt and lack of oil are also known problems. Once serviced, they work well, mine is still going strong 15 months after service… Daytona 7750 is always going to be a problem, simply due to asking the movement to do too much, namely add 11 extra gears to a movement and not expect it to be affected. Servicing can’t fix design problems… Grade F Movements · Moljina hand wind models · DW Daytona chrono models · Asian complication models Every Moljina I have worked on was rusty, really rusty, keyless works is terrible and overall a bad model. DW hand wind chrono models (still not sure what it’s a copy of) is a nightmare, won’t ever work on one of these again, very time consuming, no parts available, worn out, simply a bad model. If you have a good working one, your fortunate - hang on to it. Asian complication models, once they break - they are junk, no replacements are available. Thanks for bringing this up, if I missed a model, plse let me know. RG

I think it's great, thanks to Davidsen, more and more are able to get special projects or spare parts... Great looking watch, RG

Yea, what he said... (thanks jet) RG

Anytime you try something yourself, you learn and become better...so I am very pleased to see all the stuff you did, and the results are vintage for sure - maybe not as perfect as you like, but I think you had a lot of fun... Great job overall thanks for the detailed post and pictures... RG

Great project - once again... You always get to do the really neat and interesting stuff. Thanks for posting this, RG

Very nice impressive collection... RG