r11co

Never a more true word spoken. Incidentally, I was trawling through my email archive and I found this from way back when I was just getting into reps... It is a reply to my enquiry made to one of our 'respected' dealers. Anyone want to guess which?!

Alonso wears a Carrera Chrono, black face (as does Martin Whitmarsh, McLaren CEO). I wondered how long before we got polluted by the 'story' that is Lewis Hamilton. I'm an F1 enthusiast and I am sick-to-the-teeth of hearing his name every two seconds during ITV-F1 coverage. The first two words out of Steve Rider's mouth at the beginning of the program covering the Monaco GP were.... Lewis Hamilton. I'm supporting Massa this year. I used to think he was rubbish and got his drive simply because of his connections with Jean Todt, but he's improved and matured dramatically and is a genuinely nice and personable guy.

FFS pnf, now you really are being dumb. Follow my link '8413' in post #23 of this thread.

Wanna buy mine?!? No chance.....

None of them. They don't stock a suitable replacement.

Nicely put back on track I was thinking the same last night, but I've had a hankering for a (proper sapphire and lume) Railmaster ever since I saw TTK's in the metal and I've ran out of slots in my watch box......

Precisely.......

I explained already, and MVB backed me up. The problem arose because of an erroneous movement reference in paneraifreak's advert for a uPO in the members trade section. He said the movement in the watch was a 2893 ie. an expensive ETA GMT movement, which could have been true had the watch received a movement swap. Such a swap would be expensive though, and the low asking price didn't reflect this. It is unlikely that the watch would have had this movement from new as it is not standard spec for a factory-fresh uPO. He then went on to say he was also shipping a spare identical movement he'd sourced and displayed a picture of a DG2813 movement in its protective transport ie. something completely different. Things didn't match up! No one was questioning his integrity. All that was done was that details of his description were clarified for the benefit of potential purchasers. A simple mistake on his part, that's all. Subsequently, pnf started this rather pointless and ambiguous thread to question the clarification. In the meantime he 'sold' the uPO and the advert was marked for deletion, which it was. Thus this thread became even more pointless. He has now decided to rescind the sale, which is utterly bizarre behaviour IMO considering the asking price for the watch was reasonable and the seller would have been aware of the clarification. To sum-up, paneraifreak is making something very straightforward rather complicated by looking too deeply into things. Something he is rather prone to doing........

2813 8413 Hand post sizes are identical. Diameter of movement is identical. Movement thickness differs, but this is mainly due to the different rotor design. Balance c0ck on 8413 is smaller in order to achieve the faster beat. Date position on the 8413 is identical to the ETA2824. The datefont of the standard wheel even mimics the ETA one (intentionally).

Don't you think it would be better to leave the decision to cancel the purchase up to the buyer who, if they had been following the thread in your advert would have been in possession of the facts anyway? As I said, the asking price was not excessive and it was fairly clear to anyone with an ounce of knowledge of the uPO what it was you were selling. No one has ever questioned your integrity, just your accuracy and we all make mistakes. The above statement however shows a considerable lack of judgement.

The confusion arose from the fact that you advertised your uPO lite for sale as having a "2893" movement. As I said, and have repeated since, this indicates an ETA GMT movement. Hence the confusion. The number is VERY important!!! At no point in this discourse have you acknowledged your error or attempted to correct it. I would have linked to your advert for the uPO, but it is the nature of this forum to delete ads when the item has sold. Thankfully you did not overprice and it appears the buyer was more aware of what he was purchasing than you were of what you were selling. 'Nuff said.

This should answer your question. The DG8413 and 2813 are almost identical designs, the main differences being the beat rate and the shape of the rotor. The 8413 attempts to mimic the ETA2824 in these two areas, whereas the 2813 is more faithful to the Miyota design that both are derivative of. They should be interchangeable in a watch as hand-post sizes/dial feet locations/stem design are identical. Neither is an ETA design in any which way, shape or form and it is not appropriate to describe them as such. Little white lies...... With regards to the uPO, I have had both 'lite' Asian and ETA versions side-by-side under my magnifier. The watches are identical WRT case, bracelet, crystal, bezel, etc. All fully interchangeable. Where they differ is the movement and all things associated ie. hands, datewheel and stem. The movement holders are identical but are clamped differently depending on which movement is fitted. No uPO has ever been advertised with a 2893 ETA, which is a horribly expensive and rare GMT movement. Any rep carrying this movement usually sells for $500 plus.

Hmmm. Curiouser and curiouser..... The base movement still seems to be a Seagull ST-25xx. In the photo the presence of the date pusher would confirm that, although considerable amount of reworking has been done to the date function. The ST2502 isn't dateless - it is a day/date movement (LH subdial day, RH subdial date) The PR function is easy to explain away as that is usually an add-on module anyway. I don't think we can truly rule out that the base movement isn't in fact an ST-25, but it would seem correct that while the ST-25xx movement may share some parts with the ST-18 2892 clone, they are far enough apart to be regarded as completely different movements. Which doesn't help at all with regard to the reworked date function. A custom overlay seems to be the way to go then.....

I completely missed that thread. What I do know for sure is that the 090 rep uses a Seagull movement, and you can see for yourself there's a datewheel there!! First pic is from Gran's guide to Seagull movements. Second pic I nicked from Po-Mart, but that's what's inside the 090 rep. Say what you see!

This watch has a story, and its a bit like the old street sweeper's story - the one about the broom he's been using since the day he started. Three new heads and two new handles later, but it's the same broom.... Bought this on a whim as part of a group buy Kostas set up with Silix maybe 18 months ago. It was the watch I had on the day I met JTB for the first time as we got together so I can hand over his vintage military PAM out of the group buy package. Originally it had a SS bracelet, which was superb and probably the most impressive part of the watch. To be honest it was cheap, and it showed in the rest of the watch - mineral crystal and non-existent lume. This was the lesser-grade of the two versions of this watch that are available. Thankfully both carry the excellent Seagull ST-25 (2892 clone) movement. I wore it a fair bit (including on my trip to Monte Carlo last year), then decided after some persuasion from folks in here to have it re-lumed by Mark (Finepics). It was September and the beginning of when Mark was starting to get overloaded with work. The watch was away some time. When it returned the transformation to the dial and hands was outstanding. Having that cheeky little extra complication PR hand glowing away there was just so cute looking Unfortunately, Mark had lost the original CG. He had done his best to fit another but it didn't match the non-standard Silix case. He offered to replace the CG, and failing that he would re-case the entire watch, so I sent it back. Now, I'd been without the watch for months by this point so was falling well and truly out of love with it. The excellent bracelet was still in my possession so I decided to liquidate it. I waited and waited while Mark got the new case, and boy did he do me a favour. The watch returned with the up-spec case - sapphire crystal and accurate CG, as well as no unpleasant casting marks between the lugs, unlike the previous. I decided I would buy a strap for it. I would go for an up-spec calf leather rep strap from Silix and order it to be delivered with the Planet Ocean rubber strap that was promised to be 'on the market soon'. Months passed with my strap order pending and this watch sitting hidden in my watch box. Eventually the PO rubber strap was announced and my order went in. The straps arrive, but the deployant I asked for for the PAM strap was too small (20mm instead of 22mm). At this point I thought me and my 090 were destined never to be connected again. I eventually managed to trade the deployant for a polished buckle that matches the polished case of the 090 perfectly (thanks 4fun!) So, here she is, transformed. I am now thinking, should I rejoice in the prodigal returning, or sell it on for someone else to enjoy?!

I can confirm the ETA movement will fit the uPO 'lite' dial, and both will fit perfectly into the DG8413 movement holder. The hands are indeed the issue. Another problem is the stem - you will have to switch the ETA one into the crown.

Update - the movement modifications are rubbish. The Zigmeister says so.

That's what I needed to hear, and sadly exactly what I was expecting. Thanks for the info Rob, much appreciated.

A few questions about these are we are seeing them quite a lot on PAM and Ferrari reps now. Firstly, is this an officially available modification (the info on the 775x range is now password protected on the ETA site). Secondly, has the modification been reproduced faithfully or is this another bodged mod like the 7753 impersonators and the faux GMT 2836s?

I was going to ask the exact same thing yesterday. Great minds and all that. I've been eyeing up the GranTurismo Ferrari Pan with GMT as I don't have any GMTs in my collection. I've been actively avoiding the modified 2836 faux GMT movements, but this alternative caught my attention.

I've said many times before that the best bracelets came with the ST-18 and 2824 movement SMPs from about 2 years ago. I have repaired and upgraded mine using genuine parts and they fitted with no problems whatsoever.

We hit a few places around there including O'Neills, but the watch spotter was in Babbity Bowsters. Went there so I could sit outside and have a cigar (fecking smoking ban..... )

I've never had a single person comment on a watch I was wearing, until Saturday night when I was out in town. Been for a nice meal with the missus and on to a pub in the Merchant City. On the way out the loo a guy spots my uPO on rubber strap and says 'Nice watch. Is that a Rolex?' I couldn't resist - my reply was almost instinctive.... 'No, it's an Omeega.' I don't think he got the reference, but he was still suitably impressed.

Just a point to note - the first watch you listed there is the inaccurate 45mm version with 20mm lugs. For $10 the uPO 'lite' with DG8413 movement is a better choice.

The Omega 330x series is based on the Piguet 1185 movement. I've never seen or heard of a rep of it. Doesn't mean that one doesn't exist though......