TeeJay

Probably not Demsey probably doesn't really believe I'm a homophobe or a homosexual, he's just trolling for a response, and I've better things to do than respond

Changing one's mind, is not lying. Neither is going back on one's word. It does not matter if you give your word, it matters who you give it to. You're absolutely right about that, and I suspect the only reason why Admin allowed this 'squatting' to take place, is because from an administrator's point of view, it is easier to let people in, and keep all the shit in the valley, than it is to try and keep people out. Personally, I don't like the kind of posting which now takes place 'in the bin', so as a result, I stay out of the bin and ignore it. This thread does not have an RWG1 flag, so when I clicked on it, I did not realize that it was 'in the bin', and thought that it was going to be a reasonable debate. You, on the other hand, clearly responded only to troll and try and get a rise out of me, as your last attempted digs at my sexuality indicate. Sorry, but I'm not going to indulge you. Now I know that this is a 'junk thread', I'll be ignoring it, just like I ignore the rest of the shenanigans which go on 'in the bin'. And that's all I needed to hear. Your participation level proves you're still a troll, so I won't waste any more of my time acknowledging you.

I think it depends on the equipment, and what a person wants to actually do with it. PCs are certainly the more affordable option, but Macs, in certain circumstances, can be the technically better option I'm honestly not a MacWorshipper, I'm just someone who appreciates their aesthetic, and can appreciate their technical uses I also think, as above, that too many see Mac as a way of gaining 'cool points' for their blogtastic emo-world, and make the professional users look bad

I wish you'd stuck with the instinct not to be bothered. Anecdotes? Sorry, I was quoting scripture, historical facts, as well as relevent personal opinion (John Barrowman's thoughts on 'gay marriage') With regards "phobia", the word does not even apply. Oh I don't deny that homophobia is a word, but it is not one which applies to me. The points I was raising were intended to further the debate on 'gay marriage'. If you choose to see that as homophobia, then that is your issue, and not mine. On second thoughts, as JohnG responded: Sorry that tone doesn't really translate properly through text, but the comment I was not making was not homophobic. I'm such a homophobe, that I admire homosexual artists and actors. Yeah, that's really homophobic Did you have anything to add to the debate itself?

Personally, I would have preferred to get a new Mac, but my budget could only stretch to a PC, so I installed a skin for Vista which gives it the appearance of a Mac's OS X (Getting the iPhone was the start of a slippery slope to Mac products ) To defend Dani's post: I think it is safe to say that while Macs are widely recognized and used by folks 'in the industry', it is also safe to say that they are also the computer of choice for the MySpace generation Emo geeks who want to prove how 'alternative' and 'ironic' they are A bunch of half-assed poseurs, they give legitimate Mac users a bad name

Let me preface my .2c with this: Absolutely spot on, brother First off, if I might make a few observations and suggestions... With regards words like 'normal' or 'natural', I think there needs to be clarifications made to distinguish these concepts. What is 'natural', is not always, statistically speaking, 'normal'. There will always be, statistically speaking, a 'norm'. Example: Handedness. The majority of the Human race is right-handed. A minority of Humans are left-handed. Statistically speaking, left-handedness is 'abnormal', but that does not mean that left-handedness is 'unnatural', nor does it mean that left-handedness is 'wrong'. Even though there have been instances of homosexuality amongst both the Animal and Human Kingdoms throughout history, biologically and statistically speaking, heterosexuality is 'the norm', to maintain propagation of the species. Homosexuality is not 'unnatural', but it is not a statistical 'norm'. There are species of fish which, if there is an abundance of one gender, will biologically metamorphose into the other gender. A natural 'transsexual' With regards concepts such as 'sin', I would suggest mentally substituting that word with 'test'. God has given specific laws, guidelines and rules to live by. It is said that to live outside of those guidelines, is to sin. As AllergyDoc mentioned previously, tendencies such as alcoholism, can be (and have been proven to be) genetically determined. As has been mentioned, people are born knowing they are gay, or transgendered, or with tendencies towards addictive behaviors. As AllergyDoc mentioned, as Humans, we have the ability to resist and rise above those genetically determined traits, or, to use that scary word, jihad, (Meaning to struggle, to strive, to seek, to overcome) against those traits and still live according to God's Will. In Iraq, if a man has sex with another man, that is considered homosexual and forbidden, but, if, however, someone feels that they are indeed a female 'trapped in a man's body', (ie a genuine case of gender dysmorphia) and they undergo sexual reassignment surgery, becoming a transsexual, if this person then has sex with a man, that is not considered to be homosexual, because they have overcome their 'test' of being male, by becoming (as close as is biologically possible for a Human) female. Under Islamic law, homosexuality is considered fornication, or, if the men are married, adultery. That is what is forbidden, adultery and fornication, or rather, public adultery and fornication. Now, while it is forbidden for a man to have sex with another man, according to the Qur'an, adultery and fornication must be proven before a sentence can be passed. For it to be proven, as with fornication, this requires multiple witnesses. Sura 4: And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four, from among you; and if they bear witness to the fact , shut them up within their hourses till death release them, or Allah make some way for them. And if two men among you commit the same crime, then punish them both; but, if they turn and amend, then let them be: for Allah is He who turneth, Merciful! Now, if two men are having sex in their own home, how are there going to be multiple witnesses? Answer: There are not going to be any, therefor, homosexuality cannot be proven. If it cannot be proven, then it is not possible for sentence to be passed, therefor it is not for people to pass judgement on one another in such matters, but a case of it [their judgement] being between those people and God. God will judge them as He sees fit. It is not for us to judge one another. The conduct laid out thus in the Qur'an is not aimed at suppressing homosexuality (or sexuality of any kind), it is making a statement against lewd public conduct (regardless of the gender or sexualities involved) Homosexual relationships are well documented as having occurred during the time of the Roman Empire, and even during the Feudal Era of Japan, where it was not considered 'manly' for a warrior to show affection to a female, so while a samurai (or Roman Senator, or even an Emperor, such as Hadrian) might well be married to a female, it was also entirely common and accepted for them to also have younger male lovers. This was most likely not looked on as 'being gay', as it would be in today's 21st Century Western Society. I would think the closest modern equivalent, would be men who keep it 'on the down-low' (men who do not identify themselves as being homo or bi-sexual, but who still have sex with other men) the only difference being that in those previous times, such relationships were not 'hidden away', as a 'down-low' relationship most likely would be. Personally, I have no issue with gay people. One of my best friends is gay. Admittedly, if he was any further in the closet, he would be in Narnia, but as a result, he has never had a proper adult relationship, as, in attempt to 'look straight', he keeps trying to hook up with girls, only for the relationship to fizzle out after a few weeks. Leonardo da Vinci was gay, he also had an incredible intellect, and I can't think of anyone who has inspired me more. John Barrowman is gay, he is also an awesome actor, singer, and presenter, and I'll watch any show that he appears in, simply because I enjoy his performances, and I never tire of trying to see what watch he is wearing (I believe he may well be a collector, and I have seen him wearing various Rolexes, and an Ebel 1911 Discovery) I just thought I'd get that out of the way before anyone considered calling me a homophobe. Now, down to the meat and two veg of the debate. Gay Marriage. It is a word, people. That's all. A word. When I have my 'legal' wedding in February, it is not going to be a religious ceremony, but a civil ceremony. That does not mean I am gay, nor does it mean that my wife is gay, it just means that we are not having a religious ceremony. Before his own civil ceremony, John Barrowman was quoted as saying:"We're just going to sign the civil register. We're not going to have any ceremony because I'm not a supporter of the word marriage for a gay partnership." For a group or government to try and legislate against a legal partnership, is wrong. No ifs, no buts, just wrong. Anyone, should have the legal right to 'enter into a legally defined long-term relationship' ( ) with whoever they want (within legal guidelines of age, relationship to each other etc etc). With regards the argument that one is a right, the other is a licenced act, yes, marriage is licensed, yes, driving is licensed. But. People must not only learn to drive, but also be tested to prove their competence. In order to get a marriage license, my wife and I (as folks may recall, we signed an online marriage register early in the year so consider ourselves to be married, even if it is not 'legally binding') had to be interviewed and answer numerous in-depth questions about the other and our families, before we could be issued with the marriage license. That license does not mean we are married, it simply proves that we have satisfied the legal requirements (in the UK) to get married. Okay, that's my .2c. If anyone wants to pick apart what I have said and try and argue that I am a homophobe, fuck you, look somewhere else for an argument, as I've made my feelings on the issue as clear as I can, and am not prepared to debate them further. To round off on a more upbeat note, here're some pics

It's funny you should say that, as, despite having dyscalculia, I can grasp this on a completely instinctive level, and it is (to me) absolutely clear as day I really ought to find some way of getting into the business professionally, although I doubt it would ever happen, due to my lack of experience in the area, or relevant education (all art-related ) Thanks for another incredibly interesting 'look behind the scenes'

I'm not normally a huge B&R fan, but that watch and strap combo looks awesome

There is a $108 version available, but the most notable flaw, is that the sub-dials are too cramped together in the middle of the dial... It makes the dial look much less 'balanced' than the other version... If you're not desperate for 100% accuracy in replication, it might serve your needs I'd recommend the dealer at any rate, I buy virtually all my watches from him Best of luck with your search, the 1911 Discovery is a fantastic watch

Would that be a problem because it's de-regulated/out of the public eye, where other kinds of stocks are being traded publicly?

I stripped my Vector Clone down to component parts, spent the better part of an hour re-shaping the movement contacts so they would work when the buttons were pushed (I accidentally moved them out of allignment by using the spaces as torque space for my screwdriver to remove the movement But, I repaired the damage myself, and restored the contacts to full functionality ) then reassembled it, and now have plans to maybe fit an OEM Suunto strap (which appears identical to the strap on the clone, except the clone has an extra 'line' moulded in, and the keeper has no logo ) Does that pass muster?

This is all fascinating stuff I've always had an interest in the stockmarket, I've just never had the funds to actually play with it... Robbie, thanks for the posts, they're incredibly informative I think the only problem with the proposal of Nightstroker's dad, is that it assumes that people are not making their payments because they can't make payments. Another issue with sub-prime lending, is that it gives credit to people who, not only can't afford to make repayments, but also don't intend to make payments. At one point, I did work for a company which dealt with sub-prime car finance (which went bust several years ago), and one application particularly struck in my mind. The underwriters had asked for four recent letters to prove the person's address. The letters they sent, were notices that their insurance was being cancelled as they didn't make the payments, that their Sky was being disconnected because they weren't making the payments, that their AOL was getting disconnected because they weren't making the payments, and a credit card statement saying that that was in arrears... I think it made a pretty clear case that the person simply did not pay their bills... That is the true downside of sub-prime lending, in that people who might not be able to afford to pay are given the opportunity to pay, but equally, so are the people who simply refuse to pay, thus creating the problem of massive arrears... Putting people into homes which they can (on paper) afford, does not guarantee that they will actually make the payments Awesome idea though, it'd be awesome if it works

Indeed

That is truly remarkable. I can't even imagine using a tool invisible to the naked eye to make engravings, and the process he must have used is mind-boggling.

The thing you have to remember, is that although such people might live in a higher income bracket, they still have corresponding outgoings like utilities, mortgages, etc (even Mischa Barton bought her home on a mortgage, rather than a celeb-style wad-of-cash-outright-payment ) In that regard, recession is a great equalizer. The only people who might be better off, are those with considerable savings which they can use to supplement their incomes, but all in all, pretty much everyone's tight for cash, so accordingly, businesses are having to compensate in ways like you've mentioned. They're desperate for business, so have to give people real incentives to spend cash on what is, ultimately, an unnecessary indulgence purchase... Things should pick up eventually, but it may be a while before things are completely stabilized.

Well, last weekend, I was wearing this: Seven days later, and I'm reduced to this: Seriously though, I think the financial mess will affect the rep world in the way it affects other mainstream businesses related to 'extras', namely, sales will drop, for the simple reason that if folks are hard up, they're not going to have as much ready disposable income to spend on the unnecessary extras which make life that little bit better. In a way, while folks might be planning on selling their collections to put a little cash in their pockets (and I must admit, this thought has crossed my own mind recently) chances are other people are hard up too, so don't have the cash to make the purchases anyway... Hard to sell when folks can't really justify buying

That's fair enough, I guess watch-wise, they're pretty much something of a 'love it or hate it' watch. Personally, I love how they look, but wouldn't really feel comfortable wearing one if it wasn't actually tracking a second (different) time zone for some reason (be it on vacation, or tracking a time in another country that a relative is on vacation in, for example), which is why I don't wear my 029 very often... Maybe when the time is right, you'll look into getting a GMT again Best of luck with the sales

As Pugwash said, the term is Lurker. Forum Stalkers follow people from forum to forum (normally with the intent of arguing with them) Nothing wrong with lurking, but participating is much more fun and rewarding

That's pretty much what I was thinking. The reviews I read also made mention of them being heavy on the batteries... If I recall, one guy mentioned that his watch just died halfway up a mountain / To be honest, those kind of specific functions, I simply would never use with enough regularity to warrant buying one as a tool for those times, so a rep was only ever going to be as close to a Suunto as I would buy. Seeing this one though, was even better, as it was a close enough look, at an incredibly low price To be honest, I'm impressed by how similar the basic case and strap assembly is to a gen Suunto (and the sticker on the caseback did say 'made in China' ) so I'm wondering if this was indeed from a 'rep factory', or another example of a 'gen factory' also making sterile surplus. Admitedly, the movement is nowhere near right, but, it's certainly functional, so that's good enough for me Overall, I'd estimate the size as about the same as the 127

For the amount of use it'll get, I couldn't justify the cost of a more accurate rep (assuming the site would actually send me something, rather than being a scam site ) so when I saw this on the stall, and the price, it was too good an opportunity to pass up I would say that if it gets reasonable wrist time, when funds pick up, I might treat myself to a better rep, but, if I was to do that, it would no longer be the christmas present from my wife... As I've said before, sentimental value is something which features heavily in my collection

My early Christmas present A watch doesn't need to have a mechanical movement to have sentimental value

Okay, as some of you may have read, I've recently been building an 'outdoors'/survival kit. Much of my inspiration for the kit, (outside of content, which was helpfully advised upon by members of this fair board ) was Stargate Atlantis. As some of you may recall, much of the 'theme' behind my watch collecting, is movies/TV, and, to that end, I figured I ought to have a similar watch to round out the kit. Now, a gen Suunto, while not out of my price range (well, if I had any money ) was certainly more than I was prepared to commit to a watch which I knew would get limited wrist-time, so I figured a rep would be the best bet. A quick google search, and I indeed, have tracked down some rep Suuntos which look pretty nice, but are not only from an unknown dealer (like that's ever stopped me before ) but also still of a price, which I could pick up a pre-owned gen on the Bay. Not having any cash at all at the moment, I filed the info away for future reference. However, while out Christmas shopping today, (A Muslim and a Pagan buying Christmas presents... Some kind of sick cosmic joke there ) my wife and I saw this on a stall in a shopping mall, and she treated me to it It has absolutely no makers markings on it at all, so is a totally sterile watch. It does not have any of the barometric/GPS/thermometer functions which the Suuntos possess, but, that doesn't bother me for two reasons. One. I would likely never actually use them. Two. Reviews I've read of the Suunto Vector have reported the watch to be, at best, 'unreliable', or, as one dissatisfied reviewer wrote "unsafe", and a product which should be recalled Bearing that in mind, I wasn't particularly bothered about the functions So, what does this one do? Well, it tells the time in 12 and 24 modes, has an alarm, a stop-watch, an 'indiglo-style' night light, and most interestingly, Dual power sources. According to the leaflet, when the watch is exposed to light (natural or artificial), it runs on 'solar power', rather than the main lithium battery, which will apparently save about 40% of the battery, thus extending it's lifespan to about 8 years (I'll be interested to see how accurate this is...) As you can see, it coordinates perfectly with my shoes And has a strap and buckle damn-near as identical to the gen... Oh, I nearly forgot to say, it's also water resistant All that fuss folks make about if their reps might not be water resistant or not, watches which are made of SS and have seals and whatnot to secure the cases, and this little beauty can do that already How much did this set us back? The princely sum of

Not at all, although my dad used to be an engineer (tool maker, by title) so I guess my interest with such things comes from him to a degree.

Awesome side by side comparison shots and review

In the novel of OHMSS, not only is the watch described as a Rolex Oyster Perpetual, but it is also said to have 'large, luminous numerals'. The only Rolex of that era which matches that description, is the predecessor of the Submariner. Before it was called a Submariner, the only details printed on the dial were 'Rolex Oyster Perpetual', and it did indeed have numerals rather than 'dots' as indices