Victoria

My girl can't quite pull off a 47mm watch:

Amazing. I don't think I'm much bigger than your wife!

I think it's the shape of my palm, which is very square and flat, with elongated fingers. I am very grateful that I can wear these, with my wrist-size so petite.

Just Photoshop Kemal Atat

Yes, Rolex can be compared to Mercedes but Panerai is not comparable to Alpha Romeo, rather Ferrari.

I did think of Panerai = Ferrari, but rejected it because even the least knowledgeable person about cars has heard the name, Ferrari. I think your market research analogy is spot on, though.

@TeeJay's reply: "Until folks realize that, in the main, brandnames are a con, then prices will remain high."

In this statement, contains your point-de-vue of the world. And where you and I differ, gently.

To me, a brand is like a family name: if it's worth anything at all, it has standards, it has heritage, it has accoutability. I'm willing to pay more for that. I'm not a Benthamist, looking for utility. If I were, I'd be into Timexes.

Of course, right now, that claim sounds hollow in terms of Panerai. But that will change, soon!

paper. saw dust. made in sheds so dead insects rats droppings.

I think my grandma used to smoke that during the War...

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Member No.: 5,031

Joined: 26-January 07

No posts, and waited a full year to PM a noted member, bizarrely. WEIRD. This is definitely a duplicate account, or my name isn't Ethel McGillicuddy.

Turkey? du voll Arsch!

:rofl:

Cojones. Mucho admiration, gringo loco.

$20K for a watch is crazy. That money could buy a car, a deposit on a house. But. Is the 127 really worth that much money?

Of course you know this, Teej, but just to say that Panerai are not charging 20k-25k for the Fiddy. That's the price appreciation between collectors.

I think they got it right with their original price, TBH. It's a very special watch.

However, on paper I agree -- I love Vacherons, but are they really worth $50,000? I mean, really and truly?

It's all to do with the times.

500 years ago, men died on the High Seas for some pepper and cumin. Now we can buy them for a few pennies at the supermarket. Tout passe, tout casse, tout lasse...

I really doubt they have holes in them...

They were prob some generic Chinese made condoms (a few cents for a pack),

"re-branded" as Durex and sold for a few dollars a pack.

Ah. I see.

This "holes in condoms" factoid sounded too much like an urban legend to believe.

But they lay themselves open to the charge since they're replicating EVERYTHING, and with shoddy "quality assessment" for extra craps and giggles.

The watches, the lighters, the suits, the pens: that's one thing. But anything which affects human health, like rep cars, medicines and subpar condoms -- that's not even greediness. That's would-be homicide.

I'm not much into Ralph Naderism, but this is what consumer advocacy was made for. A shame it'll take the Chinese YEARS to find it out.

what are the odds...

i have the same watch i bought for the g/f at xmas and i was told today it is also missing a screw...

why cant someone bring out a 'rep-screw collection'....few bucks and it includes the popular sized screws such as these and those in the pam crown guards...as those are the 2 screws i am now missing

Jeez, at first I felt I had posted superfluously (By-Tor had the gentlest retort along those lines).

But if there is a guy or gal out there with this watch, who HASN'T checked their Tag's screws -- well, do it now.

BTW, tonight I lost one Rolex springbar, and one of the DSN hands of 3. They just flew. It's St. Anthony time...

WOW! I just got my Daytona from Dave, and had to remove 4 links. I have removed up to 5, but I think I see 10 there.

Bless her heart!

Similarly I had the opportunity to inspect a true 3646 with impeccable provenance immediately preceding a Christies auction.

You lucky so-and-so!

You are right that if you are willing to keep a watch for many years you have a shot. But just think of all those 50's Rolexes that sell for $1,000. Kind of like cars. Keep your car for 20 years and you are either going to look like a genius or an idiot.

Is it better to be lucky than good? Because the watch expert is good, but the watch aficionado is lucky. Again I say, part of this is inductive reasoning, and just plain being able to sense a trend.

Sometimes knowing too much about watches takes away the ability of the latter (due to too much reasoning).

Cute MM watch Vic!

Thank you, muchly!

Come to think of it, State of Florida should pay me for all the advertising I do it for it. MIA, Mickey. All I need is to wear oranges in the photos, like Carmen Miranda!

Glad you found what you were looking for. The reason I asked about the stitching is because I made one once:

I have a WTB post going on for a white strap. Whatcha got, Toots? Your photo isn't showing up (is it my computer...).

EDIT: It's still not showing up, but I saw the link when replying. Nice, but a little too thick for my purposes! I want an all-white strap, including sides. Still very nice.

WEDNESDAY

Still my big girl today! That's next to Miami International Airport, waiting for a freight train to pass.

THURSDAY

I'm going mega-girlie today. My beloved Mickey Mouse on my "Palm Beach" grosgrain D-ring strap!

You can hear the guys in the forum breathing a collective happy sigh.

...to be honest, I am getting a little tired of the Fish. Weekend will be SFSO-free!

I will be interested to see how the $10,000 plus models fare. If I were a betting man I suspect the more expensive PAM's will decline faster. In general that is always the case.

Massive reply, Kru.

Just to piggyback on your point, I am reminded of my and Dani's posts on the RIDICULOUS price of the Fiddies today. $20k, easy.

But you know, if someone had bought and kept their $400 Rolex in 1951, they'd be 180,000 dollars richer. I mean, Jeez, that's appreciation you don't see in many blue chip stocks.

I think people who are into watches sometimes know TOO much about watches, and consequently say to themselves, there is no way I am paying 20 thou for a Fiddy. It's not worth it.

But a wise man or woman could've made $11,000 in two years if they had bought one. Who are the losers now?

Declaring an item overpriced is not so much costs of the materials involved, but the time, effort, precision, and engineering that help me to determine the "overpriceness" of such a watch.

Very good points here and with your gen details below.

Would people agree that sometimes watches are under or overpriced, given the average wage?

In the 1950s, you could buy this Rolex 1951 beauty for less than U$400.

And the average 1951 wage was $2,799.16.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html

50-something years later, and I wonder how much a similar Rolex with its complications, would cost if it were made? $9-10k?

The average 2006 wage in the USA was $38,651.41. I think a Rolex DJ and a 111/112 Panerai are priced JUST right, for the average middle-class person, whether or not you agree they're worth it. That's why they sell.

BTW, here is a Rolex price list: not Panerai, but I thought it might be germaine somehow.

http://www.mkmotorsport.com/Rolex%20page_600M.jpg

EDIT: Oops, correction. 1952 Rolex. It's from the Guido Mondani collection of 309 vintage Rolex watches:

http://www.antiquorum.com/eng/press/2006/0...ease_result.htm

"Lot 200 Ref. 8171, Stainless Steel, So-Called " Padellone" Rolex, "Perpetual, Officially Certified Chronometer". Made in 1952. Very fine and rare astronomic, antimagnetic, self-winding, stainless steel gentleman's wristwatch with triple date, moon phases stainless steel Rolex buckle.

Sold including buyer's premium: 187,000 CHF" (U$180,189)

Yipes.

Yes Gen Panerai's are way over priced, Though honestly what you pay for a modded one here is what the gens should be worth. I honestly believe that Panerai is the next Rolex. As I have been seeing more and more Panerai than Rolex on a daily bases in the wild concrete Jungle.

Since July 4th, 2007, when I first held a Panerai in my hands, I've struggled with this very question: Is Panerai the next Rolex?

Will it ever be as covettable, as awe-inspiring, as immediately recognisable as Rolex?

Or has it already plateau'ed?

And the answer is, I truly don't know. I don't think anyone can knock off Rolex from its unique perch with the masses.

It's like the Mercedes-Benz, to Panerai's Alfa-Romeo (coming again to the US, in October 2009). We'll see...

One thing I'd like to tell you, is that after wearing my Fish for 5 days straight, I'm starting to get a WEENCY bit tired of it. I still love it! But it's not Panerai.

The father of Dungeons and Dragons has passed away. I realise this won't mean much to most people, but it matters to some.

Farewell!

No clue at all who this is, never having played Dungeons & Dragons. But RIP all the same.

I looked him up, to get a grasp of the man. I was curious if he wore a watch. Most (99.9%) of the photos of him at conventions and the like, show him sans timepiece. This one was the lone exception.

fake condoms with holes in them being sent to Africa............. LOL

That's horrifying.

I haven't seen this, but I consider that a crime against humanity considering Africa is DYING en masse.

If anybody's having difficulty with the torrent, I would have thought it'd be available for free on 4OD (see the Channel 4 website).

Mcsherry, you are a lamb! I didn't know about this. All sorts of televisual* possibilities have opened up.

http://www.channel4.com/4od/get4od/index.jsp

Just click on "Install 40D Now" in the red button. It's a simple install, with no registration required. The Fake Trade IS available, under TV, middle-right of the page.

The blurb:

"Counterfeiting has become the fastest growing crime of modern times, and all because 20 years ago the most famous luxury brands went East in search of cheap labour."

Episode 1 & 2 are there, ready to view. Brill! I can kiss the devil-worshippers adios!

*A little Fawlty Towers humour

I guess asking another way, are there any watches that can be worn in the shower, go swimming etc. I see the Super Sea Dweller and the Steelfish Super Ocean are described as being waterproof. Any comments on that??

You probably read Mr. Jon Fort's recent post about this:

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=68494&hl=

He compared his SFSO and SSD in a deep dive. The SFSO didn't survive, the SSD did. Both are "guaranteed" to certain depths, by the respective collectors.

If that's what you mean, by the thread question, then yes, some rep watches are indeed water resistant (not waterproof, since that nomenclature is obsolete IIRC).

But if you mean that $50 +- service offered by some dealers, as an add-on, I have to tell you very frankly that even when I was the NEWBIEST newbie here, and was buying my first rep watch...I never believed that.

Instinctively, I knew it was a myth (so as not to say lie).

DUH.

Tease.

Yes, it's overpriced, but why is it overpriced -- and why do people keep on paying? Clearly there are those in it for the fashion.

But curiously the ones who truly appreciate the history are the ones who fork down even more money, than your base 112 people. We are speaking about the pre-V straps going for $2.5k each, in another thread. That kind of person.

Let me ask you this -

Would you rather pay $5000 for a Rolex, or $5000 for a Panerai?

Answer that, and I think we'll get closer to an answer.

(Sorry if this reply wasn't about movements, but I'm going for motivation. Very few people who buy watches, know about movements)

WOW! The bugle that was sounded at Waterloo, and then at Balaclava.

People this is historical GOLD. I get chills just hearing it.

To put this into perspective:

"Trumpeter Landfrey, a bugler during the Battle of Balaklava (Oct. 25, 1854), playing Charge of the Light Brigade; recorded on Aug. 2, 1890"

This is the best spirit of the British -- whether in glorious victory, or ignominious retreat, we remember it all. I'm surprised Lord Lovat didn't have this bugle handy, instead of his piper, on D-Day.

Or Boca Juniors.

It's beautiful, New Slicemaster. The TT is precisely the one I'm getting from Joshua soon!

I see ElPrimerozen, who has the most gorgeous gen of this watch, is scratching his chin. Wonder why?

They are collector's pieces to complete expensive watches. It has nothing to do with beauty or the leather.

Exactly. Who in their right mind pays $$$ for a vintage Boba Fett action figure?

Now an original Herm