Timelord

lacquer thinner is similar to isopropyl alcohol as it is used in French polishing and therefore dissolves the lacquer that is used to fuse the pallet stones and also the roller jewel on the balance staff of the hair spring! Two very important and expensive parts that are the most fragile in this liquid!! I was hoping that one of these type of alcohols would have been a good substitute for benzene based solvents! Sadly not the case because of those two delicate parts! just the other day, I found a post from some site that uses ammonia based liquid to clean but am not sure if it was for movement parts! I wonder what the environmental watchmakers would use apart from detergent and distilled water? I haven’t been able to hand clean any movement parts due to some family members allergic to the smallest exposure to these chemicals and living in a small dwelling on the 8th floor adds to the complication!

very close? No, not by any stretch of the imagination! A house next door to me sold after 8 years of sale by more than two thirds of what the buyers paid then! That is over £1.7 million in profit! Back then I was contemplating on getting a £ 300000 loan to buy it myself and I took a deep breath and said to myself better to see a psychologist than a lending institution! Am I thinking the same? No, I now know looking back that I am dumbest person in the world! In 2014 I also saw a fully snickered NOS 118238 presidential on eBay with the whole 9 yards of packaging being sold for USD10,000 as unwanted gift or near offer! I was thinking of flying to Los Angelos just to buy it as seller did not want offer-overseas shipping! To get it at that price, I would have given up drinking gin for life which I later had to anyway because of ailing health! should you feel bad? Cheer up, you are still ahead of me and good luck with your build! I am sure you will forget the chase once your son says to you with the best smileys could imagine “Thank you dad”!!

don’t want to hijack my own thread, but this made me pull out my old reel to reel tape recorder by Phillips! I played one of my old tapes which also featured a recording of a family get together and an old dear family friend that passed away in 1975! It felt like magic as if he was present in the flesh! bits and bytes are digital and work on a discrete spectrum - that being binary; 0 and 1, whereas analogue systems are sinusoidal using the Fourier representation or as mathematical physicists would refer to the square wave function capturing a continuum spectrum of frequencies! That you feel even if you don’t know which is which! Now I will go back to replica watches and to the special world of the analogy of all this discussion - the noble mechanical watch! Quartz watches are just a substitute like a cheap wine imitating a precious old red vintage!

Wow! Now that is interesting as I did not know all of that! Having no formal training as a watch smith one lives and learns and sometimes at a dear cost! At times when I have replaced a part in the gear train such as a seconds wheel where the top part that holds the seconds hand has broken, I have only removed the dial but not the canon pinion! I then replace everything together making sure all the gears spin freely (and recoil) and I then proceed! Even doing it this way I don’t recall having had a problem! Maybe I got lucky that time! now that you mention it, I am trying to remember which order is assembled it?? 😳 Anyway, I am waiting for the third wheel to arrive from overseas, so I have to wait and see what happens as I have everything ina pieces for now! It’s a waiting game now! Thank you so much for your input as i have learnt something new👍!

Most of us here most likely do wear a quartz watch for practical reasons and are in these mechanical timepieces purely because of the esoteric appreciation we have for the traditional timepieces and for the nostalgia very much like those that own classic cars but still use their Toyota Camry for every day driving! Sure enough I cannot get someone to work on the carburettor of my triumph stag, but those that collect them will always have a network to have them attended, even though difficult! The movement parts drought will eventually open up a new supply of aftermarket parts as already is seen! A similar analogy occurred in the early 1980’s when the quartz fad stormed everywhere and mechanical timepieces were unavailable at an retail store apart from the Rolex lines! They became scarcer than hens teeth, until they slowly made a comeback! Many vintage cameras that used 820 films are still highly collectible even though the films for them are no longer made! So too are LP records! Nobody would look at them in a practical sense apart from the anachronisms of what they are and there will always be a social network that will keep these interests alive! Time will tell how it will evolve!

Even when removing the pallet bridge, it is easy to break the pallet fork pivots! It happened to me with an omega caliber 1020! Nice design, but a real let downer! That movement is a real head f#@#! I had disassembled the whole movement quite carefully and easily! When it came to removing the pallets, I noticed that the bridge just wouldn’t come off! It seemed like as if it waswelded on it! I tried to pry it with the thinnest screw driver and blade possible and still no go! When I managed to break free, the pallet was stuck to the upper bridge with no pivot on the bottom side! Luckily this happened in the days prior to omega placing sanctions.on spare parts and was able to easily re place it! With today’s parts policy, I would not touch that movement with your worst enemy’s hands!

As Automatico has eloquently mentioned, these cases are mainly made for eta movements which have a larger dial seat diameter and it would be quite a risk to buy it and not use it! You must also remember that even if you have resolved the dial seat issue, this case is for the 3035 and you must also factor stem alignment height to get a successful result! So you have two hurdles to overcome at risking a $3450 case where most of the cost of this case is not just in the gold value but also the work to make it and the vulcher mark ups! So even in scrap gold you may have another issue as the value of gold wold be far less Han the price of the case as scrap gold I have lived this riddle since 1985 and as yet am in line with many other waiting for a donor genuine case! Don’t wish it on anyone but even organ transplant recipient have better chances! I bought a 1803 case in very bad shape for $600 some 14 years ago but the lugs are almost about to foil through the hollow cavity and the mid case has damaged threads as the case back will not tighten! It goes on for a couple of turns but then goes to the starting point without tightening! There is just a very thin band of gold on the interior of the mid case where you cannot even use a thread chaser! It needs a new gold ring soldered inside and new threads made! Big job! Not sure if it pays off to buy a whole complete watch instead as you really need to be a highly skilled goldsmith watchmaker! I kept it for the gold value as I finally got the gold value worth compared to what I paid I don’t think it would be this much! There are great modders here that charge very modestly! I have read great feedback on our fellow member Adrian (username Ado ) I have communicated with him on some occasions and he is a great gentleman who is also very cluey. You may wish to send him a pm as there is no harm in asking! There are also others which may do this! Just check the modification posts! Hope all goes well for you and good luck!👍

Gentlemen thanks! Very interesting and perfectly valid comments! It is not the first I have serviced these and never experienced this problem! As I mentioned, the gear train was spinning freely and beautifully! Maybe I tightened the screws too tight or one tight and the other less tight? Makes sense! The other could be that upon replacing the wheel coming from another spare movement may have not been a genuine spec wheel or a faulty one with bent pivot! I will never know, but I will wait and see when the new part arrives! Hopefully the same won’t happen again or will lightening strike the third time? I have stripped the movement apart again soaking in naphtha to re- clean it to make sure all Jewel holes are free from any metal shards! I am waiting for a new third wheel to arrive from eBay so I have no answer yet and have to see what happens! Will keep you posted and thanks heaps for your suggestions ! I am sure you guys may have hit the nail on the head

if you are looking for a genuine 1803 solid gold case, you have a better chance of winning the lottery twice !! They are scarcer than unicorns! If you rely that Rolex will sell you one, then you can also hope that Easter comes on Saturday! Your next best bet is to get an aftermarket gold one which are often seen on eBay by this guy who is selling a custom made 16018 for as 3035 movement! https://www.ebay.com/itm/154860794068?hash=item240e6c30d4:g:RHEAAOSweoVh729l You may wish to shoot him an email and see what he has as a I have seen them for time to time! But they are not cheap especially at today’s gold prices another guy that also sells them on ebay, goes by the name friendlyperson but I cannot seem to find his contact! Again he is not cheap either! if you are not fussed and would prefer a stainless feel case, to Mimic the white gold effect, then it would be wise to buy a generic stainless steel one and have one of our modders to modify it to fit your movement! This would be the cheapest option until you do come across to one! I myself have been on the lookout for a genuine 1803 case since1985 when spare parts were more available from. watch supply houses! Rolex cases are the most difficult cases to buy whether gold or stainless! good luck!

I had a bit of an odd situation with servicing a 2824 to fit my replica Bond Omega. Movement was working fine and in hindsight somehow regret touching it! Have successfully serviced 20 of these without a problem, so am I learning something new? followed the exact recipe of making sure that the gear train was spinning freely and recoiling upon stopping, checked that the pallet fork flicked from side to side upon a couple of turns of wind. Placed in the balance, fully hand wound it and a after a few swings it stopped! after careful examination and sequential disassembly, noticed that the third wheel bottom pivot had broken! Bummer!! These are hard to replace,but was lucky to have other dud movements to find a couple of spares! Carefully assembled it with great caution and the same happens with balance wheel stopping after a minute! Can lightening strike twice? In my case if did! Bottoms pivot of third wheel broke again! Cannot suspect any bent pivots or cracked jewels as it was working fine before I awoke sleeping dogs! Could the mainspring have put too much pressure on the gear train while I was gently had winding before putting on automatic assembly? Can anyone solve this riddle? I am baffled? 😮

Guys thanks for your responses!!!! I knew it had to be- too good to be true!!! Bottom line is that there is no less toxic environmentally cleaning solution apart from the petrochemical ones!! If only pallets and roller jewels weren't shellacked, isopropyl alcohol would have been ideal!!

Thanks for your input! I also had never heard of cleaning with acetone! My interest was not so much on the budget side, but more of an alternative to petrochemicals or benzene based fluids like naphtha! A more environmentally friendly fluid than these commonly used ones would really suit me Like most of us here' I don’t have a cleaning machine and live in a small dwelling with my family where the smell from these fluids gets me into trouble with my my partner! The last watch I cleaned by hand came out really nice but one needs a proper ventilated area to work in! Alcohol would be great too, but that would not go well with the balance roller jewel and the pallet stones!

Had an interesting encounter this afternoon at the hardware store when I bumped into a retired watchmaker. He had stopped to buy a can of acetone to clean some metal prior to priming the welds before the final coat of paint! As we discussed the old and the new, he mentioned as a passing comment that acetone is a good substitute if you are ever cleaning watch movement by hand,! I had never thought of it as most hand cleaning solutions such as lighter fuel, naphtha, white spirits and essence of Renata are commonly referred to!! I am not sure how effective acetone is in comparison to the naphtha etc. My guess would be that if it is as good, then it may be less toxic since it also occurs naturally in the human body! Anyone ever tried using acetone in cleaning watch parts and how were the results?

Very valid points! I have been always sceptical for decades about this very whole topic ! I guess that at some point we draw the line psychologically as to the balance of probabilities of what may be beyond reasonable doubt to what is the real deal or not! Most of this horological subject is predominantly based on the the preowned and vintage market! So those that are comfortable in giving the benefit of the doubt on what is highly likely to be real or not continue to sail on! Lets be honest that unless you have walked out of an authorised dealer with a new timepiece with seals on it, then you will always have that slimmest shadow of doubt as to the origin of what you have! Even walking out of an authorised dealer is not an absolute certainty either! Why? When I bought my last new genuine? Datejust from the local authorised dealer some 20 years ago, she ( some 20 year old gorgeous looking saleswoman) removed the seals off my watch while getting the boxes and paperwork ready for me! She also said that I had a cooling off period to return it back within a certain time frame if not worn, which I do not remember what it was! I could have easily changed the case with a replica case that would have been perfectly worked on it with serial numbers and all! Very Difficult to do but not impossible! Therefore I came to peace of mind that if I was to be part of this hobby, I would either forever put any doubts out of my head and enjoy or pull out and move onto a different hobby. If it smells like a dog, barks like a dog , looks like a dog and licks you or bites you like a dog, then it must be a dog! So if perfect forger can replicate a case to the point that it will pass the authorised service centre, then I will accept it as such and forever hold my peace! Let’s be honest that it is apiece of manufactured item and not a diamond nor a rare Opel, nor gold that has been forged. Many times I have even asked myself if both items are made from the same place and just marketed different! In today’s world with the exposure of past scandals that we never knew about, nothing surprises me!! if it is as good as the original, then all chances are that it is the original! I don’t have a problem with any replica that I have owned as any special touches and modifications made pretty much makes them hand made! I truly prize my jackjo super seadweller at the same level as some of my genuine pieces! I see nothing special with the genuine pieces when reflecting on their price tag! In some ways it is all in the mind! will get off my soap box!😀

I was in two minds with what to do with mine as it had been sitting forgotten away from mind and sight! I was almost going to scrap it ,but the stainless steel case caught my attention that it had to be of better quality than the typical chrome plated ones, so I looked at it further ! I pulled it apart for curiosity to compare it with the latest eta , but was pleasantly surprised at its construction! I liked the way the hair spring comes off from stud by unscrewing the fine screw which is a far outcry from the current eta with the pressed in stud in the fork which is a throwaway if the spring gets damaged! The Incabloc was nice too! It was quite a straightforward experience! I cleaned it by hand washing each part first in detergent and distilled water with a kids toothbrush! I then rinsed them in distilled water and dried them with cotton wool! Left parts in a jar of naphtha for a few days, stirring the jar for a few moments a day! When I assembled parts I only had 9010 and D5 just to get it running and I surprised myself that it is one of the best timekeepers I have! Maybe not using the right oils in the Keyless works and on pallet stone will catch up with me soon, but until it lasts I am quite happy 😃 In conclusion it is a great project movement for any other project!

Hope everyone is keeping well? Haven’t posted for a while,,but have been lurking! I recently serviced an old watch sitting in one of the wardrobes having forgotten all about it! I have been wearing it for almost a month now and cannot believe how incredibly accurate it has been. On some days it has only picked up a couple of minutes and then slowly goes back to original time I set it. I am happy with that for a 60 plus year old watch! i was pleasantly surprised to discover that some of those older Tudor snowflakes use this exact eta 2452! I saw that on eBay they are so many of these movements and also well priced,!! Some of these unknown brand watches range from as little as £70 to £2000. I thought that I would raise this up with those wanting to further their projects with the parts problem issue. I find these older movements much better than the latest 28xx series as they also have a stud screw to replace hair spring and also have a better keyless works assemnly without that horrible cover plate spring!

I would not lose sleep over this! I would just reduce the scratch depth as best as possible and live with it! Being an acrylic crystal, you are going to acquire many more scratches unless you are going to wear it with your hand over your head or leave it in the glass cabinet to stare at! One of the many disadvantages of these plastic crystals. Jusf bear in mindthat the more material you shave off, the weaker it gets as it is only plastic! I use a very thin drop of Brasso after using ,2000 grit sandpaper. Just enjoy it!!

All the scenarios put forth have validity A watch or any product, collectible etc. is only worth what you can get for it at the time of sale,! Period!!!! So what it is worth this much today and it has gone up or down? Real estate is a perfect example! You get or pay what the trade agreement is on the day! Sometimes you get a bargain and sometimes you have overpaid! Just basic high school demand and supply economics! The OP posted a video of a woman stating why Rolex watches are so expensive? My interpretation is that she was talking about the new ones at the dealer and not collectible classics ! All collectible classics will demand a premium regardless of if it is a watch or a one penny black first minted stamp! Her B@#$$$T was what I found insulting to someone who has been in the horological interests for almost 50 years ! Yes Rolex is a great watch and so too are other equal quality timepieces that sell for one tenth of the price unless,you are bidding on a collectible or intend to buy Paul Newman’s cosmograph that sold at auction!

you mean this one? The only criticism of this one is that they could have used a Soprod, or even an STP genuine equivalent Swiss movement! Look there are lots of choices with exceptional qualities minus the astronomical over inflated price tag! I have also had Technos with eta 2830 movements which are the same as the 2836 but much better with the removable screw from the balance [censored] and the incabloc setting which was chronometer certified! What a gem of a watch this was! I also had a Technos eta 2832 high beat 36000 high was also chronometer! Such an easy movement to work with! I also had a 18k gold king seiko high beat! Foolishly sold it to buy a 18039 day date which I also sold for the same price I purchased it! Some great profit that was! Yet the spell I was under was to buy Rolex which later the excorcist price tag cured me from! Lol! The biggest problem with that industry is trying to work oout who is the patient and who is he “”therapist”” I believe not even Einstein was able to solve that complex equation!

Ditto!! Well said! Yes I like the Rolex submariner and the presidential! I was a sucker for them when I purchased them and if I were to live again, I would do the same! But at today’s prices? I would need to see two psychiatrists plus some other very intense consellor! Sure enough their aesthetics, catchy design, their list of undebatable innovations etc. etc. stands to be proud! However, Let’s not forget that Rolex mostly used Aegler movements until the early 1950’s and even their cosmograoh which was in Paul Newman’s watch record breaking auction killer used a valjoux chronograph! So yes your point is exactly like mine! let’s not forget the Blancpain 50 fathoms used in Jacques Cousteau’s 1952 movie “the silent world” as the chosen water proof divers watch, which other horological collectors argue was what inspired Rolex to create the first submariner as an homage watch to this Blancpain! When you consider a Squale brand submariner or even a Ginault submariner as homage watches with a high end eta ( even with a chronometer eta no different from a Tudor snowflake eta) for one twentieth of the price, then my psychiatrist would secretly put me too sleep with a good cyanide anitpressant to save my family from me, especially if I were to justify ispending thousands $$ more on a stainless steel submariner! Nobody is denying that Rolex are a great piece but not for 5 to even 20 times more than an equivalent quality timepiece! Looks like TAG heuer is mimicking them by putting exaggerated prices on something no better than an equivalent Tissot! We obviously control the market when considering an idiot like me spent all his youths savings on both a submariner and a presidential where I could have been wiser in my spending! Rolex is a great timepiece, but not necessarily reflective of their asking prices at authorised dealers! My opinion only!

Now that is a more accurate description of what would have happened. But then again the same can be said about other watch companies that made everything in house including other manufacturers of micro wave ovens, computers, iphones etc. !!! Consider Seiko with their 1960-1970s calibers which were also well engineered. Yet the prices were not to the same exaggeration that Rolex charges for their product!!!! Surely a lot of behind the scene work happens from designing, prototyping, production setting etc, etc, and etc. Yeah, when a new Rolex caliber was evolved from the 1570 to the 3035, there could have been even more than a year behind the final stage. Surely nobody can dispute this.!!!! But the way they phrase it, "takes almost a year to make a rolex" is really very misleading.

I couldn’t have put it better myself!! I love the way she parrot phrases” it takes a whole year to make a Rolex”. Really ? who would fall for that ? It is the most insulting comment to swallow in any marketing ploy! If there is any truth in this, when considering the amount of Rolex pieces in.existence, you would have to employ the whole population of Switzerland if not all of Europe to fall for that BS! Sure enough Rolex is a great well engineered watch but not to the point that you could get away without the usual maintenance that would be required of any Sieko or Tissot! If it were something that could tick for 70 years without a service and not have any wearing parts due to some magical trade secret alloy, then yes she has a point! I would say that is one of the best $1500 watches that sells for $20,000!

sounds very interesting !! The very first I have heard of to be a-successful conversion. I know for certain that the 1803 case is thicker than the date just case and to an experienced eye you would notice immediately especially with a pie pan dial that it was not the same as the real DD! Yet a great outcome. I think the llater 3155 movement model DD were thinner Yeah!I was under type same impression and also agree with Automatico! but it worked for alligoat. I guess his represented a white gold model

Was going down memory lane during our recent lockdown and listening some old classics from various artist and found this nice clip of Sir Cliff Richard ! You can see he has a nice black dial date just at 1.50- 1.53. Sometimes I do get the blues when reflecting on my younger years as I would have loved to live the future of the past as to what we are living now! you can see he has a nice date just with a black dial at 1.50- 1.53.

Thanks guys! That was very helpful as I could have damaged my mid case if I had bought a replica case back! Thanks Ben for the link! I also found a couple more ! Thanks for clarifying! seems like your case was galled where the threads cold weld which is a typical property prone for metals like stainless steel,titanium, platinum and worst of them is aluminium! if the threads got stripped, it is surprising that it screwed down at all at any stage of closing as there would be little left on the walls of the case! Maybe it wasn’t as bad as you could have chased the threads if you had a tap and die! A spare case back (sacrificial) could be made into a tap& die by cutting a couple of lines at right angles to the thread and hardened by heat ! Thanks for sharing this experience!