Timelord

I didn't want to hijack my own previous post "mvt wont regulate?" so I thought I would start this new title which may be of some interest to those that have a liking for tool watches. My visit with the old time family friend watchmaker Luigi became very interesting when we were speaking of Rolex watches and how I was into the Franken watch version of the Rolex. He was very open minded about this topic and liked my F520117 noobmariner (courtesy of Alligoat) very much with how it served my purpose. He said to me whatever makes you happy is what matters. I would have worn something like that myself. He then pulled out of his drawer a couple of watches to show me which he valued as special to him, not because of any monetary worth, but because he thought were very under rated for what they were. They were a couple of 1930's watches known as "Wyler" They were both rectangular and both in stainless steel. One was labelled as water proof and the other was automatic. In the 1930's they were a great tool watch for that time. We hardly hear of them today, but he went on about them that he worked both on Rolex, Blancpain, Jaeger LeCoultre and Wyler, having a very soft spot for Wyler. I was discussing this over a sip of Strega Liqueur and upon coming home I did some research on this watch. I thought what a joy this hobby truly is !!!!!. Nothing else comes close. There are many websites that speak of this watch, but I thought I would add the following link which shows a picture of the watches that were eye candy to me from that visit. https://www.fratellowatches.com/automatic-wyler-crichettino/

Well Gentlemen, all I can say is thank you !!! I am still trying to work on replacing that fault with the balance and bridge, but I am relieved that I have an answer. It was driving me Nuts!!! I was happy to catch up with old time family friend Luigi with his amazing skills and wisdom of his art of watchmaking. His speciality was hair springs and told me how he use to make them by hand and to time the finished product without a timing machine. He mentioned of his most challenging experience while learning his art, that his master gave him a hair spring that was twisted and made up like into a ball. His mission to pass was to get it straight, reshape it and get it working again. He had to replace it in the balance wheel and Collette and get it right with the screwed in balance weights. He then had to set it in beat getting it half way between the banking pins and got it accurate to almost chronometer level. That is BRAIN SURGERY of the trade area. Now nobody would do this as no customer or watchmaker can afford this unless you paid big$$$$$$$ for this. But it was definitely skill building.

An Update! i thought I owe this forum especially members that took the time to help me with some feedback as to what I found! As I had to go out of town today for unavoidable duties, I also took my little nightmare with me to stop by an elderly 93 year old watch maker Luigi who was once close friends with my late parents. I was pleasantly surprised to find that he is still with us and as active as I remembered him enjoying his sip of Strega liqueur and a short black! After a short chat on old times( excuse the pun) he looked at my movement and pointed out that there was a slight bend on one of the regulator pins even though hairy spring was breathing evenly between the two pins which somehow latched the spring on sway. How the hell he saw that at his age with a 2.5x loupe made me feel as if I was a total idiot! He also pointed out that the staff was a tad taller but did not have one to replace it as he is obviously retired and did not expect my sudden request! The moral to the story is that somehow prior to service the watch must have been running well with the regulator pin problem and since I did not buy this movement new, someone must have propped up the balance bridge to get it working! Lesson learnt! If it ain't broke do not try to fix if as if was running well! I thought of doing the right thing by servicing it, but it bit me hard in the @$!

I am having difficulties to post after I log on also!!! Well you definitely have a point here!!!! I looked in my junk box for shorter screws and found something slightly shorter. The shortest screw I ever seen. and bingo, it ran until just the final tightening turn and then it stopped!!! Much better than what was there before. I usually screw these screws back into the mainplate when removing them for cleaning. Just a habit of mine. I am trying to find a way to tighten the kock (purposely mispelled for the reasons described above) to make it stable enough not to move while wearing the watch but at the same time keeping the damn spring oscillating, Some juggling to do! Thanks again for your input as I don't take any ideas lightly. All responses received have been great and helpful if not directly to this problem but to other problems I was going to post about. Again without overlooking anyone, thanks again also to the long list posted by Aldo213, I managed to fix an issue with another movement which had been giving me problems! I will keep you guys posted and thanks again for your commedable efforts in helping me!!! Much appreciated!!!!

many thanks for your detailed list of troubleshooting ideas. I believe that the problem is predominantly me with my limited skills as I am no professional.. Because I got half a dozen eta movements running within 5 seconds per day after an amateur service still puts me light years away from someone who is highly trained in this esoteric profession!!! Everything is the same as before service. I always put the balance on the mainplate when cleaning it to avoid all sorts of potential damage. I never had problems with incablocs, only with the horrible novodiac set up. I checked to see the spring and removed the jewel again much against my wishes. I have gone through most of your suggestions and have yet to put my finger on the real problem as I am inclined to also believe what fellow member "Horologist" suggested that there could have been something under the balance Bridge (not exactly the correct word as it is held with one screw instead of two) which after having been cleaned twice in such a short time could have come off. I vaguely recall something like a foil of some sort n the cleaning fluid which could have covered the base for the bridge to sit on. I cant say for sure!! I saw all the parts unscathed so didn't think twice about it as I had never seen this occurrence with other exact same movements. I am just sorry that this has used up a lot of everyone's time, thinking that by now it would have been simpler. Curiosity killed the cat and if I cannot get it right, I will have to take it with me when I go out of town to see a retired watchmaker I knew to see it in the flesh as a 3D picture tells over 1000 words. He introduced me to this wonderful world of horology when we visited his workshop as a child. Just out of interest, he has always amazed me as he never had an electronic timing machine and did everything manually such as regulating and setting in beat without it. Dont know how he did it.?? All I know is that he started his training in the early 1950's and always fascinated me with his lathes that did all sorts. Hopefully he is still alive. As Horologist said this is almost like a degree training.

Update! Well ,,,,, spent Saturday night assembling a re-cleaned movement. Dotted all the ighs and crossed offall the tees using the right oils, not too little and not too much. just covering below each cup of each jewel. Did not use finger cots, but full polyprene gloves. What else did I do? Ah also had a mask to avoid breathing on it while assembling it. Oils used D5, 9010, 941 and molykote Dx thanks for the input given here. Upon assembling the balance, I took a deep breath and thought of all positive vibes. It began to tick and thought "Finally" - both the odds and the Gods were on my side UNTIL I tightened the balance [censored] screw. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh it stopped!!!!! I thought this cannot be happening!!!! I untightened the screw and gave the balance wheel a bit of a shake and it was kicking again! Ok, fingers crossed and started to tighten it again. I thought I was a victim in an Alfred Hitchcock horror movie. it stopped. !!!!!! Did the balance staff grow in the cleaning fluid? This is what one expects from a longer balance staff!! It was a perfectly ticking watch with same balance assembly before I got too confident and went ahead to clean it and I definitely recall it had a tightened balance [censored]. Result is that I now have a regulating problem in addition to a balance wheel not running!!! I have stripped and serviced a dozen of them which 3 of them have let me down but this is the mother of all let downs. Well, I will call it the day and have to label this female movement as a let down for now and just have to accept defeat for until I get my confidence back. As Bugs Bunny would say, Well folks thats it!!! and thanks again for all your support. That is very clever. Just loved that post!!!! This forum just keeps getting better with all these great ideas!! I always wondered about this mix and match of incablocs with other setups!! Thanks again!!!!

Hello & thank you for your input! It is an eta 2836-2 with the horrible Novodiac spring ! I didn't change anything anything on it. Pallet and balance assembly are all original. Was working fine until I awoke sleeping dogs and they bit hard!!!! I am in the process of assembling it again over the weekend! Maybe there could have been something that caused this problem. I also diamagnetised it so will have to wait and see!!! I lost the damn cap jewel inside the shock assembly. The spring fell out while I was dissasembling it and will look in the junk box to find one. I know you cannot interchange the incabloc on top and novodiac on the bottom as I tried this and it didn't work

I am having great difficulties after I log in and try to post a response which just logs me out and have to start all over again. Don't know what is happening but hope this will post I had totally overlooked this magnetism issue before I re dismantled the movement again, purely because in the past my magnetised mvts always picked up much more than just 4 minutes per hour and my demagnetizer has given up the ghost. When I put it back together, I will see and hope that this is the issue, because this has really been a night mare. The video was good on an educational point of view but agree that in practice it would be unrealistically unfeasible for any watchmaker to play around for so long unless he was doing it for the church. I have a 10x loupe and could not see anything to raise red flags like my previous services. Unless there is a flea's eyelash somewhere in there, then that may be the problem! I am inclined to go along with your suggestion that it might be magnetized (hopefully!!!) Will see when I put it back together!! I hate, hate and hate the spring on these models as they are 3 pointed pieces that totally need to come off as opposed to gate fold springs that just lift up while remaining attached to the top. Nightmare to put in and maybe something must have got trapped there?. BTW I always put the assembled automatic unit last after I have tried to time them purely to also give me access to the regulator arm which is always hidden under the automatic bridge. I had also removed the complete balance assembly and replaced it into my Rado Diastar which usually runs ok and it also picked up the same rate, so I am adamant that it is the balance assembly. The other option for me is that I could cheat and learn nothing out of this and buy one complete new on ebay but are from China, for clone standards which could be problems because; (1) they may be as pathetic as the complete clones themselves (2)they might also have the same regulation problems and (3) may never reach me with all the worlds problems with any items posted from China. If I were to find a genuine eta (at a feasible price) they are sold separately and will need to be assembled bringing me back to the same problem of putting them in beat and in time. So it is a lose, lose situation!!! I am hoping it is magnetism, As with tuning fork models they too have big big problems as mine could never be regulated Thanks guys, much appreciate

Alligoat said: Did you clean the hairspring? I watched my watchmaker dip the hairspring in a cleaning solution, Yes, I dipped it into a product called horelode and also the e d stones that were a bummer to put back. The small drop of 9010 in the middle of both jewels ceejay said: 2836-2 uses a Etachron regulator. You need to study the correct method and use the correct tools, to do it properly. Watch & learn... Thanks !Great video! I am not so sure if it is the regulator pins as the mvt was telling good time before I got too confident in choosing to service it after it sat 12 years in one of my drawers. Maybe I stuffed up touching something that I am not even aware of! Lesson learnt! I should have left it alone! Playing around with those etachrons is fairly skillful business thank you all for your input

Greetings fellow members! I have recently serviced my eta 2836-2 (not my first either) but have experienced something strange. Regardless of how I try to regulate it by shifting the coarse regulator arm, it keeps running at a rate of 4 minutes fast per hour! I looked at hair spring in case it had a sticky hair spring, re oiled the end stone which has that horrible 3 prong spring that keeps flying off when I try to put it back in ( successfully done) but always runs at the same rate! Has anyone ever seen this happen? I am running out of wath could be the cause! Thanks

When one thinks about it, it is really all in the mind! Just to add my 2 bobs worth, I have always bought new sealed in silver plastic eta movements and have never had a problem with them! Some even ran better than my genuine timepieces! This was in the days when I could buy new eta movements for £45 which costed less than what it would cost to service them! Not now! If I knew then what I know now, I would have bought a whole truck load of them as they are rugged precise and have very few moving parts in comparison to a genuine rolex movement! The eta 2836 -2 movement is such a joy to dismantle and reassemble! Just in case you are not aware the economy line of rolex company Tudor have used eta movements in some of their most collectible and prized watches that can set you back thousands of dollars!, pounds Euros rubles etc. if the choice of movement is your concern, in my opinion you cannot go wrong with a genuine eta. I have a rado watch with an eta that is running well which I have been wearing on a daily basis on and off for over 17 years without a service, which at one stage I was thinking of pulling apart for spares once it started to get funny but I am now curious to see how long it can go until it is beyond repair! You are taking this too seriously! buy and enjoy to good health!

Ok we now get the picture ( excuse the pun)! As kernow has mentioned, all replicas have their flaws and depending on which flaw bothers you the least, then choose the one with that flaw. If you want perfection, then buy genuine. The cheaper alternative is to find a genuine second hand 1601 case and have one constructed with a Swiss eta 2836-2 movement or a clone 3135 yuki, but that will not be cheap either! I recall fellow member Stone did these on the sales section of this forum! Check the sales section of the forum and see if he may have any for sale! He may even build you one with a genuine bracelet! I am not sure if he is still actin pave here but his work was close to perfection! Again it won't be cheap but you will have a nice bespoke piece of work Good luck!

Hello and welcome to the forum! firstly we need to be sure if you are seeking a brand new genuine Rolex, genuine vintage or a homage to a rolex which is a rolex look alike made by a different company or a generic with or without a rolex label (best known as a replica by most peoples understanding). All are good options depending upon your needs and affordability! Members here would be the most informative in all these areas! But then again you need to be more specific with asking exactly what you are seeking! If genuine new, then that question has already nap been answered for you by my fellow members! If vintage genuine then the vintagerolexforum.com has a good selection of sellers from my past experiences which accommodate for different needs! If it is a replica you are seeking, the list of recommended people listed in this forum, are very reputable and safe options at accommodating your requirements. Again it is upto your personal preference as to what you are seeking as stock and changing availability is never the same! Good luck!

Late to the party. Congratulations! As a parent of two special needs children, distractions together with faith in yourself and those around you can be an astronomical strength! I have been a member of this forum for some 12-13 years and it has supported a.long life passion of mine which has been of the best distractions for my sanity! No pharmaceuticals or therapies could come close to the love and fraternity I have received here, in the enjoyment of an esoteric and classy hobby we all share!! I vaguely recall a story here some years ago, where a forum member wanted to sell all his timepieces to help fund medications for one of his children which also threw me into tears! I say we have all survived yesterday and today, let's get through to midnight before we worry about tomorrow. She will do well!!

RickFlorida, I not only raise my hat to you, but will also bow to the depth of dedication you have devoted towards achieving a 1:1 case! I have been following your posts on this from the very beginning, but have never answered to any of them as I had nothing to offer in terms of helpful information.The intricate details of your aim in this project has definitely enticed me down in your list of potential buyers! This forum has been Gods gift to the internet not just because of horological interests but above all; the members that are part of it, bringing the best of society from all walks of life! I understand with appreciation the difficulties you have faced and to invest a sensible and feasible amount of funds is paramount, which would otherwise defeat the purpose of the whole outcome! Your quest to find the data on thread pitch etc, etc, has been a lot of work! Ideally it would have been easier to purchase the cheapest genuine 1680 or 5513 possible, perhaps in the worst condition and study the full details of the case having it properly calibrated to get the right data and then be done with it! One could have easily sold the genuine and recuperated all the money back and perhaps even made a profit on it! The other option would be to get your Italian watchmaker to do it for a token of appreciation! I find That most Italians I have met In my lifetime can be very obliging and helpful ! Good luck and again I applaud y

Thank you! Thank you! could not post reply as it would log me out all the time I clicked reply you hit the nail on the head! This forum is magic with helpful, skillfull and wonderful people! problem solved!

Thanks for this further piece of information! I pulled everything apart again and checked with a fine tooth comb. I looked at the yoke and made sure it was straight! Tightened it all up again in two steps making sure the spring hooks over the too and bottom! Then I tightened the screw and crossed my fingers! It worked up to I reinstalled the date-wheel ! Same thing happened! Pulled it apart again! This time I gave it a slight bend as you suggested and hoped for the best! Still no go! I can only conclude that either there is something wrong with me or the cover plate has some deformation or both ! I must have fluke this in the many past times if there is something I am not doing right! Regardless, Thank you for your input!

Yes it is the original stem that was functioning in every position! I initially thought that it was worn and replaced it with a new one from the labeled sealed packet! Again the same problem. I then realigned the keyless works and no go! Today I again reassembled the keyless works and noticed that the bottom hook of have cover plate somehow seems to not embrace/mesh around the bottom pin part of the setting lever ! Maybe there is an issue with the cover spring plate which is thinner metal than the operating lever and setting lever. I am not sure how it could have happened? I am only guessing as I have done this job countless times and never encountered this before. Was wondering if others may have ever had the same experience as well! Thank you for your input ! Yes it is the original stem that was functioning in every position! I initially thought that it was worn and replaced it with a new one from the labeled sealed packet! Again the same problem. I then realigned the keyless works and no go! Today I again reassembled the keyless works and noticed that the bottom hook of have cover plate somehow seems to not embrace/mesh around the bottom pin part of the setting lever ! Maybe there is an issue with the cover spring plate which is thinner metal than the operating lever and setting lever. I am not sure how it could have happened? I am only guessing as I have done this job countless times and never encountered this before. Was wondering if others may have ever had the same experience as well! Thank you for your input !

Greetings all! Hope you and your loved ones are keeping safe with the current global threat! been doing home detention with the rest of the world and decided to tie up some loose ends on an eta 2824! which I kept putting off! Finally got it ticking until I realised it would not manually wind nor set the time as stem kept free wheeling in both directions, but could only quick set the date! Winding stem moves as should though! i pulled the keyless works cover and noticed intermediate wheel did not engage with hour wheel. Reset it all up and it wound a couple of times, but as soon as I tried to set hour, it went back to its original problem. Something to do with the cover plate spring as yoke keeps flying out if place whenever I pull stem in different positions! Did tighten all screws well! Going nuts as it isn't the first time I have successfully reset keyless works! Those more clever than me, could you please enlighten me with what could be the issue? ! Maybe something I do not know about keyless works ? I have engaged the yoke and bottom spring as I have always done and positioned all as it should, but just doesn't seem to go! All feedback is welcome with many thanks!

Absolutely!!! I am most at risk as I only have one kidney being a recipient of a donor from my late mother! Being on the type of drugs I am on, my immune system is non existent ! However, I am not taking this virus lightly, but at the same time excercising prudence as best as possible and not going insane either.!! If the virus won't kill me, the stress from over worry will for sure!

So was the Spanish flu which wiped out an astronomical number of people! If you have a heart condition or a transplanted organ, you would want to wear a space suit ! But yes, society is over reacting- thanks to the media as one really needs to practise common sense with extra precautions of hygiene and calm down! Chernobyl was more of a danger with radioactive material floating through the air across the world, rising levels of cancer and autism/mental illnesses eta.

Hello fellow members, I was trying to replace a cover plate for my eta 2836-2 and phoned my supply house to ask if they still had some in stock and was surprised to hear that they had one left! When I went in to collect it, I saw that it was nothing like the one I needed! The paper label it was stored in said for eta 2836 and even had a diagram of what it looked like. He then said " you asked for the eta 2836, which is a different movement altogether from the eta 2836-2". I was dumbfounded , Now how different are they and interestingly I see different balance bridges in some of the 2836-x such as in the image posted? In others I see the ones with the fine tune round regulator which needs to have the auto winder removed to make coarser adjustments! Is the one in the image legit for both movements? I am in a state of confusion, or should I say learn something new everyday? Thanks

You are not the only one to feel like that! Me too and read what this poor guy has to say in the following thread; https://forums.watchuseek.com/f71/riccardo-thread-please-god-make-last-i-have-talk-about-1083309.html

Thanks!! I had a feeling it had something to do with a friction fit! I find this one to be tight & feel like breaking it off to avoid slipping with the screw driver and hitting the balance wheel or something expensive to replace . These plastic pieces are quite cheap to replace from ebay! I just noticed from vision that they can be a good substitue to a dial spacer of a 2836-2 and at the same time a movement ring if one wants to use in a sub case after removing day wheel !!

I joined exactly 2 weeks after this forum started moving from the rwg site which was then run by Klink the ex army Sargent. That forum almost went deserted when everyone was moving to this forum! I was only young back then and although I am old now, I still feel I never grew out from playing with these toys!