Timelord

This might sound as a silly question but I am curious if anyone that has dismantled an eta powered submariner from different sources ever noticed if if the movement casing clamps would be the same size? One's first intuitive guess would be yes, but I am not so confident????? I have bought from many places including Silix and have noticed that although the same models appear identical, there are some subtle differences between different manufacturers -especially with the internals. For example I found out the hard way with the dials that some are 29mm and others use 28.6mm from manufacturer to manufacturer. That extra 0.4mm difference in circumference may not seem much but can make a big difference as to whether the movement will sit in the case properly and therefore not necessarily be interchangeable from the same model of different manufacturers. I have a ceramic bezel case which will not accept a 29mm dial to work with an eta but will work with a 28.6mm dial. It was considered as rep gospel that the ceramic cases house dials which are 29mm. I have damaged more than one dial to find out where dial feet have also broken off while trying to case the watch. One can buy a whole box of various sized clamps for only a few dollars but they can be a hit or a miss. I have made case clamps from all sorts of material including old mainsprings and feeler gauges, but you can take almost half a day by trial and error as to making sure they fit properly over a size 1 or 2 raffles movement ring. Sometimes they do not seem to work properly at all. I had no luck making one or getting any for a SSD V2 Sea dweller as the original dial with case still sits on an angle under the rehaut. I have one model that uses a 4.5mm x 2.5mm clamp, but am not sure if this would be universal for all submariners from different rep dealers??? Would appreciate feedback from anyone who has worked with different model? Thanks!!!!

In all my replica submariners, I have noticed that the eta 2836-2 is used in place of the eta 2824 for obvious reasons that a DWO will not work properly in this instance - also because of the seconds wheel pivot being different. Has anyone ever used or seen a 2834-2 with a DWO in a replica submariner??? I have never had the privilege to see or disassemble the 2834-2 to analyse if the top anatomy of the mechanism is similar to allow for a DWO, as they both use a day wheel (where one has day wheel on the exterior of the movement and the other on the interior of the calendar wheel). The the height from the movement top to stem aperture is the same measuring 2.25mm with thickness of 5.2 mm

Yes, Mark has some great videos and has a very welcoming and inspiring nature!!!. It is obvious that he loves what he does and also loves to share his information with others. My favorite video was the one where he restores a military Omega, being one of my first inspirations as I copied step by step when he serviced it. I had my PC next to me, freezing just about every 3rd frame, while I attempted mine. It took me well over half a day during our Christmas holidays, but if it wasn't for his comments advising of important tips during the video I would have probably hung up my boots and called it the day. That movement was a true confidence booster for me as it was purely nuts and bolts and had big screws and parts which were easy to handle without risking to constantly flick them across the room. You can see the video here and believe me it is a true treat and also entertaining to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U0OKPcM3KE

Thank you once again! I still believe that most of the movements I have managed to get running after complete disassembly must have been a stroke of luck as I have done the same to identical movements without success! These are all very basic without the date mechanism. I always struggle with setting the train bridge in getting the gears to run freely and my other challenge is pallet fork assembly. I have sheared the pivot heads of many escape wheels which I have purchased by the dozens because of this reason even when taking the most precautions of precautions. My favourite movement that boosted my confidence to properly learn was the manual omega caliber 265 which was the very first movement that I was able to get running. The worst were the eta clones which can truly destroy ones confidence. Any other movement other than the common eta 28xx are foreign worlds to me. Thanks again!! This forum is uniquely special. I feel very privileged here. I learnt more here from everyone than I could from any school!! Thanks!

Wow!!! I could almost cry with joy!! I am very touched to acknowledge how you took so much time and effort to go out of your way to give such a detailed and easy to follow step by step instructions and to photograph them too!! It must have taken a lot of time as well! This forum is one of the best fraternity to be part of with such helpful members!!! I would vote for this to be In he sticky section of the forum as I am certain that there is probably nothing like this elsewhere in the forum or even on youtube. I am sure that many others would benefit from this write up . I was searching for hours on end for any eloquent information regarding the FULL installation of the date mechanism for this movement - & sadly there is not even information on this for the 2824 which is totally different again!!!! The best I could find which wasn't directly related to my problem was GenTLe's write up on date disks! Finally does it matter what direction the octopus looking hands on the top of the driving wheel are facing???? Again I am very grateful!!!!!

I am no watchmaker, but have attempted to service my own manual movements that do not have the date mechanism. Just over half of them do not run regardless of how clean or well oiled they are, but am happy with the ones that I did manage to get to run for a village idiot like myself My first service attempt on a 2836 seemed to go well as it was running, until I got to assembling the date mechanism. I was planning to adhere a DWO on the date disk but somehow I messed up with the date mechanism. I notice that the calendar driving wheel does not move when trying to change the date upon setting the hands past midnight, however the rapid date change works ok. I know that the calendar driving wheel sits in some kind of a spring underneath where the cam sits. I got the date unlocking plate and spring ok on the edge of the mechanism without a problem, but no matter how many attempts I made at settling in the calendar driving wheel, it does not go!!!!. I am even ashamed to see how many scratches I have made on the movement plate itself with the numerous times I attempted, that it looks like as if it has been hit with a railroad pick. Maybe, there is something that I have missed in the literature of assembling this part but worse still is the lack of information available on this area. I have tried to search relentlessly for any tutorials or literature all over the net, on this, but all seem to focus on the 2824 or any non date mechanism which is of no real help. Any suggestions on where to get information on this regardless of how trivial it seems, is much appreciated with Thanks!!!!

I recall reading something like this about people that are overly obsessed with footballl, religion, substance/ alcohol abuse and heavy gambling!!!

I have been following this thread very carefully and my understanding is that Automatico has the best experience on this with his detailed and informative response. I believe you seem to have a type of case which was most common from Silix which are good cases as I had this same type of case back on an Omega I bought from the original owner of the site some 12 years ago. Great watch but not a good watch to wear in summer as it too had a flimsy back seal and moisture seemed to creep in on a hot day as the crystal fogged up. I ordered more then a few back seals all 1.0mm in thickness and they were oval instead of flat. I eventually got the right diameter but still I was not so confident with the thickness as a 1.2mm one would have been better. I then considered that it couldn't get any worse, so, I had some rocker cover gasket sealant which sealed a nice leak on my car and I slowly used a sharped toothpick to fill in a small film in the groove which was also stepped to make it thicker. I know it sounds charlatanism but I just wanted something that worked. Before the sealant totally dried I placed gasket to adhere it in place for it to cure while slowly putting a few light turns onto the mid case just to level out the gasket in the case back. Once it was cured, I passed some lithium grease from CRC with my forefinger around the gasket. I then tightened it just enough to feel the gasket compressing. Don't overtighten as it isn't necessary. I also ran out of lubricant so I used singer sewing machine oil on a very small cotton bud onto a tooth pick to lubricate the threads. Most watch makers and even those here would frown on my ways but I never ever had problems again even with dipping my arm into the lake with it. Replacing the seal was easy as it just needed to be scraped out with a soft object. Regarding 1.2 mm seals, I recall getting one from a forum member in Australia for a watch that was built there. So I know they exist but I have since been unsuccessful in locating one To answer your question on getting a new case back, I believe that the replica cases are a smitch bigger than the genuine cases and it may be risky to get a new case back which may not fit or marry up with the threads especially if the thread taps are different I suppose someone can correct me on this but unless you prefer to change over the case completely with a case back without this step It then defeats the purpose of your outcome as it is a learning game as well as a project achievement!!!

Very valid point!!!! When noticing that some of the inscription in the video are of Asian origin, this is probably performed in the far East making it most affordable to most Westerners. Lets bear in mind that as these parts are becoming more and more obsolete, any attempts to save what is readily available would always be a feasible option!!! Same analogy with obsolete parts made for vintage cars. This sort of tooling set up will be more common amongst those such as Jmb and other workshops as well. I notice that professionals usually always end up mimicking what amateurs or enthusiasts pioneer in the first place. Without overlooking some of the marvels I have seen here from modders and others, I have had work done by Michael Young and others where the magic coming out of their hands runs circles over some professionals. I believe Michael Young started off as an enthusiast similarly to those who are here!!!!

(...) You may ask who would put their timepiece in urine? One can be surprised what gets onto your wrist... I recall helping my lady change our child's nappy some years ago and before we had just finished, a big splash of pee squirted us everywhere. I don't even remember if I was wearing a watch or not as this was long before these topics were even a thought. Now you got me worried as I may not have rinsed my non waterproof Seiko dress watch So it is not such a bizarre contemplation!! LOL!

Totally agree!! These clones are pure junk when it comes to maintenance and repairs! Better to spend one third more and get the genuine mechanism, because n the end it will cost more when things go wrong and they WILL go wrong!!

Yes, both top and bottom of that cover plate ("G"part ) need to be hooked! This newly replaced part seems to strangely fit on without needing to hook onto neither of them. I don't want to start twisting any of these hooks to reshape hem as they can easily break and I am back to where I started! This is not the first time I have pulled keyless works apart. I repeated this with my longines eta right after doing this without any problems! I am beginning to suspect that this mvt is not a genuine eta and maybe replacement parts are not one to one fit. Apart that the datewheel keeps falling off, the balance wheel has decided to stop after a few turns. I even removed the hacking lever to see how it works without it. The first thing that would come to mind is that it would need a service, but it is a very clean mvt and you can still fresh oil and above all this, it was working fin until the keyless works played up.

Sorry about the confusion, the setting lever spring would also be known as the cover plate. It looks like the G clef at the beginning of the music score. There is a hook on top and bottom, where in the bottom there are 3 grooves which move when you pull out the crown in all 3 positions. When I was trying to hook the top of the spring( or cover plate) onto the top of the yoke, it snapped off. Anyway this part I have managed to buy online and have replaced. It is usually hooked on the top and bottom of the yoke. Mine sits automatically on it without having to do this hooking with the screw driver or tweezer, which although sounds nice, I think there is something wrong with it. BTW it is not the first time that I have amended keyless works! I suspect it is one of those junk clones as I have repeated this same exercise in my eta 2836-2 Longines without any problems but this seems to be the movement from hell as anything that could go wrong has.just minutes before now I just broke the little tail at the bottom of the date jumper which I believe is for the day wheel I checked hacking lever by removing the barrel bride and it is not touching the balance wheel. It also lies nicely in the groove of the clutch (castle looking cog). The datewheel was already falling off prior to breaking the tail of the jump setting spring. The balance wheel has decided to stop after a few swings! This movement has been like watching a horror movie. The other option maybe that I might be getting early senile in my late 30's.

I am not sure if anyone has ever had a similar problem with their eta 2836-2? It may also be a clone as it was purchased form one of the dealers last Christmas, but so far has been working well since I had it for several months. I had my keyless works playing up and when I adjusted the yoke, I snapped the hook of the setting lever spring. It was working fine even with the part that latches onto the yoke missing. As soon as I replaced the new spring, the balance wheel just stops after a few minutes. I removed the spring and replaced it with the broken one and it has not stopped since. Replacing the new spring, the same thing happened. Worse still the datewheel keeps falling off regardless of how many times I have refitted it. Interestingly the spring fitted exactly over the yoke and also the bottom part without having to be hooked on as opposed to having latch it on. I have done this operation on many of these replicas without a problem but this one seems to have a mind of it's own. I welcome input, criticisms or thoughts - thanks!!

Totally agree!!!! This forum and the traders here usually make it clear to the best of their knowledge as to what is genuine and what is "not". I see nothing wrong with that, as long as there is transparency between the buyer and seller!!!! Of course when dealing with any second hand items that have not come directly from the manufacturer, will always pose that shadow of doubt. Especially with todays technology, one can just about clone a Piccaso! From time to time, I have noticed a seller on ebay which some of us may know as a "friendly person" that lists his merchandise to what appears to be to the best of his knowledge as either genuine or not genuine !!! This allows the buyer the potential to know what he is buying. In all fairness there are times where you may have purchased something you thought was genuine and beyond reasonable doubt you still believe to be genuine and happen to trade with someone else as genuine, then this is an innocent act. BUT if one knows otherwise and intentionally deceives, then when the cookie jar breaks, one has to face the consequences and pay the piper his fee without sympathy from nobody !!!

He obviously was using the same trend as the official rolex company do with their gold pieces . You take the gold model and the stainless steel model of either a date just or a submariner and you will find that the amount of "gold" (well strictly 75% of the precious metal really) is overflated at least 7 times. If a gold model was just over double in value of a stainless steel model, then this would already be more than the profit that most watch brand companies charge as a premium. Being harder to work with for a watch company using robots doesn't sell with me! Yeah like it takes one year to make one rolex with the number of pieces displayed at every AD would mean that the entire population of Netherlands would be employed at rolex. Pull the other one it has bells on it! LOL!,

Thanks for the update and since you have just received it, keep us informed again in say a couple of months, just to make sure they have not just replaced the movement with another one of their recently assembled hit or miss movements. Lets remember that although these suppliers are trusted dealers, they do not necessarily have to be watch smiths in the sense that they know what the internals of what they are selling have. Even more important, lets keep in mind that this hobby we follow isn't exactly supported by a perfectly legal business either because it is an infringement of intellectual and propriety rights to the true owners of the brand Which is why it is strongly recommended that you do not ever raise any unpleasant issues with paypal as a first line option As for professionally watch makers they can also be a hit or a miss. Some are good and some are not so good, regardless of training or qualifications. I personally knew one that could put square pegs into round holes and vice versa. Lets say that he could see outside the square and improvise very much like a jazz pianist as opposed to a classically trained piano player that just performs what he reads in front of him. Most qualified watchmakers are like classically trained pianists. If you are lucky to have a jazz trained watchmaker which I believe can still be found, then you should take your replica watch to him and get a proper makeover like a complete service Pay him what he asks as you will not regret it!!!! The other option is if you are confident in removing the movement from it yourself and as Automatico mentioned, remove the hands and dial and send it off to have it completely serviced to someone that is willing to just service a movement. A fiurther option you may choose if you are good at this part, is to buy a sterile dial from ebay and fit it onto it and take it into ANY reputable watch smith, then they will see it as just that and will service it for you without thinking twice about whether it is a knockoff, replica or a wart from a cl@#. I have found some watchmakers that are great at their art, but also have small minds when it comes to replica watches. As an experiment I took into the same watchmaker my MBW submariner and he frowned at me in advising me to throw it into the rubbish bin after he opened it to find an eta movement in it. When I returned home, I removed the dial and replaced it with a sterile raffles dial and asked my wife to go to the same watchmaker a few weeks later. He gave her what I considered a reasonable quote for what was needed. So you see it is all in the mind. What is an image??? In our world of small minds -EVERYTHING!!!!! I learnt to do a lot myself and can service my own watches but poor eye sight and a bad Carpel Tunnel operation has put the brakes on me. As for etaclones, Automatico again hits the nail on the head with one full blow!!! With my experience, they are not worth the risk as for the price of one third more, you might as well get the real McCoy!!!! I have had nothing but problems with their crappy keyless works with yokes breaking, flimsy set lever springs snapping when hooking onto the post, shot through reverser wheels and tin thin like parts. Mind you this is one I paid US90 and worse still the seller offers no guarantee on these.

Thank you so much for your detailed information! Much appreciated to all who have responded! I purchase the case kit from raffles around 2014 who has always provided me with satisfaction! I also had the movement with the movement spacer etc, Immediately after I had an unexpected death in the family which put me off the rails in every sense of the word where I was not in the right frame f mind to enjoy this hobby. I recently decided to pickup the loose ends and attend to this! The movement holder is a size 1 raffles which I have never had any problems with. The biggest challenge was the tabs/clamps which were trial and error of a hit or a miss. The first time after shaping them they fitted perfectly. When I removed them to reposition the hands, it felt like a different watch as they just did not fit anymore even if I had labeled them for the right part of case. I don't remember whether they came with the set or not as I was also moving homes and a lot of stuff went astray! Years ago, a watch supplier said to me that every watch case has them uniquely made for the movement and case and you will have problems if they are not the right shape or size. He was also a watchmaker! I now see what he meant because I now have 2 ruined dials! BTW what is the diameter of the glue on dial feet that you use on your eta 2836/2824.?? I know they come in all different diameters as well. Maybe I stuffed up with this!! This is why I appreciate whatever feedback possible, no matter how trivial it may seem!!! Problem is you cannot buy them as pairs, but you have to buy a whole set which defeats the purpose for just one dial as it would sometimes be cheaper it get a new dial. Thanks again!

Thanks but I mentioned of them in my original message. They did not work as they are as good as glueing the broken ones back! Then you have to get the precise as you cannot see the original stump which they broke off from Totally agree!!!!! I love your idea of the blank dial acting both as a spacer and dial feet! Very ingenious!

Automatico, your write up is pure brilliance and it has definitely given me a big breath of confidence. Thanks with a capital "T" My problem is holding the dial in place when I am mounting it in the case, because as soon as I gently push in the movement holder (yes it is the correct one for this case) or even try to screw down one of the clamps, the dial easily dislodges and one or all of the hands fall off the movement!!!! I definitely think that the dial feet are paramount in holding onto the movement (even if they are just pressed in ) though once the movement is clamped in with the clamps and spacer actually keep it firm. I almost panicked when I removed the movement out again after I had the clamps nicely holding it with the rotor clearing the screws, when the marked clamps didn't seem to fit back anymore. This is when one goes to improvise and exceed the design limitations of what it was made for!!!! LOL!!! I have dial dots and double sided tape but when you have only the rim of the movement to grip this, it leaves a pretty dim chance of it holding into place when one is trying to Yes the dial spacer is cemented onto the dial as opposed to the movement, otherwise it would be a nightmare I am really disappointed with the dial as I originally bought another one because of the dial feet were damaged on the original only to end up with 2 dials that are !@#$!3!!!! Much appreciated!!!!!

Hello Fellow members, I decided to put together a submariner case set which I bought from raffles a couple of years ago and finally got a chance to attempt to assemble it. All went well until it was time to try and screw in case clamps which came with the movement until I realized that they were way too short to hold under the interior of the case grooves. I checked in my box where I kept this kit since 2014/15 to see if there were any that came with it but could not remember if they did or not so I considered to make some out of old mainspring according to an old post I remember reading here. Somehow I just could not get them right no matter how many attempts and alterations I did to them to fit properly from movement onto the groove of case wall as dial did not sit straight. Worse still you could see that the movement was not level. Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, I then realized that the dial feet had broken off from my attempts on getting case tabs/clamps or whatever they are called over movement ring. I then tried to epoxy the dial feet that I had bought from ebay. Again this was a failure as the same thing happened when I finally believe I may have got the case clamps/tabs right as they kept movement well tight & balanced. Now to the dial, I thought of getting double sided tape to stick the dial somewhere on the movement. This was getting from bad to worse as I could not find a proper area over movt. where I could put adequate tape for the dial to hold on tightly at least until I secure the whole thing with case tabs/clamps?. I hear and read of this technique a lot but is there something that I should know as I am now clutching my straws? Also is there any tutorial that is either on this forum or anywhere else which can guide on making proper case tabs/clamps as I honestly believe that I must have fluked it in getting them right? Also any imput on type of double sided tape or what has worked for anyone using this method? Endless thanks in advance for any input!!!!

Hi and sorry for the delay. In the interest of those that may be in the same boat, I am now in a position to share my experiences with my very first clone. Firstly, thanks to all of you who have responded and forwarded feedback!!!! I appreciate and value whatever information I am privileged to receive. It goes a long way!!!!! My experiences were not all bad for the price I paid. Yet I would THINK TWICE before taking the same road again!!! I noticed that the dial spacer was not as flat nor as accurate as the ones I have always got with my genuine eta which caused problems with the dial feet not fitting right through the hole for the hook to latch onto. I tired to sand it down so that there was some grip. I then noticed that the DWO was rubbing under the dial as the spacer was not as thick to compensate for the dial foot to grip onto the hook!! BUMMER!!!!!!! Somehow the datewheel flipped off!!!! As for being 1:1 with the genuine, this is the very first sign that you have a fake eta. I deliberately use the word "FAKE" in all contents of the word. I ended up having to buy a new spacer so that I could put epoxy into the hole of where the dial foot was inserted as the foot was not long enough to grip onto the hook. Something frowned upon by professional watchmakers!!!!. It works and tells the time running 5 seconds per day slow. I can live with this. However, the datewheel does not work regardless of how many times I removed it and replaced it and got to the point that I f!u@#$ up the DWO. I glued a piece of the DWO under the dial to cover the mechanism from showing through the date window. Spending an extra $100 for a genuine would have been a lot cheaper and definitely would have paid off but when it needs a service I will toss this junk movement out and replace it with a genuine as it would cost more to service than to replace it with a proper eta as this case has been discontinued. That's it folks!!!!

Hope all will go well and for everything to return to normal ASAP. I have been there myself when the unexpected happens. Just had to roll out with the punches! Hope that it is not health related or anything too serious that is difficult to resolve. Good luck!!

Very valid question! Just a thought that I will share with you that I think could be a more common issue with those that don't do this on a regular basis! I had a similar problem with my yuki submariner 16610 which I foolishly sold as they are no longer available. Did your dial have 4 dial feet where you had to cut off two of them to accommodate the ones at 10 and 40 position if I recall correctly for the 2836 ? If so, could it be that part of the cut feet under your dial may have left stubs or part of the dial feet are still protruding just under the dial? We are talking of about a feas nose. This may cause an uneven dial or even more so a dial sitting up higher where the feet can just be seen under the movement and not gripped properly from the movement anchors when rotated onto the feet. This is easily overshadowed by the fact that on those movements you can still have the hands working properly due to the higher hour wheel and minute post and the dial not clamped properly onto the movement. If I were to out money in a bet, I am confident that this is your problem. best of luck!

Totally agree!!! The one I purchased was sealed in its silver bag which had Tissot stamped on the rotor and was rhodium colored. That was approximately just under USD200 which was approximately what some unsealed sellitas were selling for. As for anything that is labeled "new without tags" will always scratch my paranoia as they could be Asian clones with eta stampings and a good trap for the untrained eye! As for cloning, very soon with today's technology, you may be able to clone a Picasso and fool untrained billionaires! Lol!