Watchmeister

Pulled out the franken 3717 this morning. It's been a while.

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Aren't all NDT dials refinished gens? Is there something that makes this dial better than some of their others. Is it just they "refinished it better". I didn't know that there were ever Comex Beyeler dials so I thought this one was kind of a bust. But I am no Rolex expert. I was aware that NDT has been recently promoting "custom" dials.

Great looking and that QC process certainly can make a difference.

Isn't that the standard NDT dial combined with a movement?

You will be in great shape on the PO's. They really are wonderful reps. Can't give advice on the 42's as I went with the 45 size and loved it. Welcome to the forum and enjoy the read. There is plenty of info on the PO's. And if you get really motivated to improve it and want to spice it up you can selectively add gen parts which come up over time.

Unless you are going to go the route of building a gen dial/movement franken for $2000 plus you are more likely going to buy the best version of your favorite model and perhaps relume. Life in repdom is always about trade-offs. The most aesthetically accurate ROO's are the older seconds at 9 version in terms of overall dimensions, bezel height, case back thickness, dial/date lay out and overall finish. But of course you have the wrong functionality in the sub dials. Assuming your priority is the same functionality then you are working with seconds at 12 versions. Depending on which particular model you want different versions may be better than others. So post the pic you alluded to and people can make suggestions.

Ziggy- Much thanks for making the time to do this. After all the speculation and with the number of folks interested in the reps with these movements it is an invaluable review. It will help a lot of folks make their decision as to purchase or not and also whether to promptly go for a service. So I will lead with the questions (whether silly or not). Does the new date transfer system make the changeover transfer mechanism any more or less reliable than the original A7750 196? Is the date pusher transfer system comparable to the ETA 7753 which isn't that reliable even on the ETA version. If you don't service it and then it busts is there a significant risk that the repair will be more difficult without the proper oiling, cleaning, etc having already been done. Should I simply be factoring in a service at the time I buy the watch or do I wait for it to die first? Thanks, W PS I am hoping the whacky datewheel configuration has something to do with future 7753 based reps but who knows.

Starting to sound like being banned over there deserves a medal of honor. So I suppose congratulations are in order.

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I was speaking somewhat tongue in cheek. Rep versus gen is a matter of budget, preference and which you get more pleasure from. And most folks swing back and forth over time based on changes in the above. The one thing I do have to note is that a well built franken often holds value better than a standard non-rare gen because it is more unique and can appeal to a broader swath of the population (at least our population).

We need a pic of the distance between the crown and the case to tell you whether you can extend out the case tube to get a firm contact and have it still look good or add a tab to the inner part of the crown to keep the relationship the same. The other possibility is to swap out the lever from another crown guard with a longer contact point.

Beyond using the search function, go take a look through a couple of trusted dealer's catalogs and choose the one you are thinking about and then post a pic and ask people's experience. There are a number of stellar Graham's and Breitlings which are wonderfully repped.

OEM also come up quite frequently used both on the bay and on Risti. You can find lightly used ones for less as well.

Aha, the heart of the question - why should I buy a gen when I can make a perfect rep. If you can then you shouldn't. That is why you are here, remember.

What's happened is the old guard has gotten old. I am no core member but same is true for me. Hey maybe its time for us to offer an elitist limited edition watch over here to make me feel better. But seriously, I never was a hard core member but I liked the fact that it was a motley crew ranging from a finance guy to a longshoreman executive to a porno director (oops, I mean adult films), etc. Every one had a common interest in the watches and no one was out to impress everyone else with their awesome collection. Other than a few Europeans everyone else had one or two and aspired to get the next piece. When the 195 came out I always wondered if it was the beginning of the end.I didn't think so at the time but now I wonder. And yes babola, these forums are far more fun and thought provoking. We have champions of various brands but the interest in horology generally is just so much better.

Well I did feel a little silly "stealing" one of Bruce's pictures.

And here are a couple more from the glad I bought it archive.

Perfect clones is certainly one of the biggest dealers here. He is one of the dealers who actually provides QC pics of your actual watch so buy with confidence. If there is a problem he has always dealt with it promptly on my end.

You may well be right. So let's try this one : It is truly a unique grey - very different than the traditional anthracite:

I don't think the sub-dials are that far off. The sub-dials on the gen are neither flat painted nor truly metallic like an 88 for instance. I would love to get my hands on a dial and see it. I suspect a touch of flat matte spray (which I used on the original white background 7753 Panda dial with stunning results) would likely tone it down perfectly.

Hey A- Good to see you around. Yeah the movement and date wheel placement isn't perfect but still massive improvement over the A7750 and the rep is under $400. Can't tell you how much money I dumped into making four of those 7753's. Still eagerly awaiting the Ziggy teardown. I know there is one on the way to him. All the best, W

Franken 188 today.

It is a great rep. I too share the same concern on the sub-dials but it is always really hard to tell as the sub-dials change drastically depending the light and the angle. I didn't take this pic but this was always one of my favorites and I thought a good base for comparison.

I have been waiting for someone to bring it up here. The amount of animosity over there is just frightening. Risti is exactly the same size as RWG and Geeks. There was a very nice article in the WSJ at the beginning of last week about the NYC 10th anniversary GTG. The parting quote was about it being about the friendship rather than the watches. And now there is so much hating going on there. This happened to a lesser extent with the 195 a number of years ago but most people were friendly there back then. As most people know Risti started with a bunch of guys being supported by Angelo and whoever the President was at the time. Panerai needed them to spread the word and the members loved the brand. At that time Panerai was having trouble even getting placement in stores. Now it has grown as has the brand to the point where it is just another purist elitist site with vets lording it over wannabees. I have to say Panerai marketing folks and Risti are independently geniuses. For the Risti folks they have developed their own liquid trading network. They protect their own club members over unsuspecting folks (Kevin Adeeos, etc.). For Panerai, people may be hating (and they will lose a few people) but far more people will hang around and continue buying just to see if they can get in on the next limited edition. I still enjoy reading and looking at the ads on Risti but as is often the case it was more enjoyable when it was a smaller group of folks loving their unknown brand. Let me leave you with one last question. Are people upset they didn't get one because now they are not in the elitist group who can claim Panerai/Risti cares about them or are they more upset that they can't flip it for 3 times what they paid for it? You will never know.