tvt

I really am not sure why they would design the watch so big that virtually no one can actually wear it without looking like an absolute clown. I really appreciate indenial's shots and willingness to tack a little flack here, but it just looks stupid in my opinion. I think if the lugs overhang your wrist THE WATCH IS TOO BIG! I mentioned this before but I honestly think that people will view this watch as a novelty, as if you were wearing giant joke sunglasses or something. It seems like somehting a prop comic would use in a bit or a clown would use to entertain 10 year olds at a backyard birthday party.

Notice in the first shot how the lucgs OVERHANG the wrist. The watch is actually wader than the guys wrist is! To me that is just silly. I like to see a little strap before it turns to go around the wrist. In this case not only do you not see strap but there is actually space between the strap and the wrist because the watch is so wide.

Found these on the web, they are gens so I am not sure which size they are. One thing the B&R has going for it is that it is relatively THIN, so that helps with the bulk.

Sorry, no wrist shot here but I have tried on the gen and the 46mm SQUARE is MUCH bigger feeling than even a 47mm ROUND watch. The example I often point to is the Tag Monico. That watch seems very large, like Panerai 44mm large and yet is only 38mm! (or is it 40mm? doesn't matter). the square size really exagerates the size. I have average sized wrists and while I guess I COULD wear the B&R 46mm it honestly felt like I hade a coaster on my wrist. To be fair the first time I put on a 44mm PAM I felt it was too large but the B&R is REALLY, RWALLY large. To me maybe a bit comicly large. I think a lot of peopel would view it almost as a novelty joke watch of some sort, it feels THAT big. Now if you are a big guy, football player size, then all bets are off, you can wear anything you want.

RT: I agree that your poll idea is strong and jay is being very generous to offer to donate prizes of sorts to the winning idea... all very good ideas and creative and kind. I worry however that you may be getting into a"too many chefs" situation. I have seen numerous similar attempts to create group watches or petition a dealer to create a watch or various group buys and so on and more often then not (much more often) they collapse at some point. Sometimes people are not burned and other times they have been. Hell, 5 years ago or so back on RWCC I tried to organize a group buy and had nothing but honorable and good intentions... of course things did not go as smoothly as I would have liked. While no one was screwed in the end it turned into a harrowing experience. My point? I think at some point you may have to just make some executive decisions and force the thing to happen. Any great idea needs a leader to really support it, too many polls and group decisions rarely lead to things actually getting done. I really hope it can be pulled off because it would be unpresedented and open up a whole new world... but it is not a walk in the park I am sure. Also, while frankl;y the last thing I would want to see is say yet another go at a Seamaster or something similarly dull I do think Jetsons makes some good points for Jay's sake. I am assuming that jay will need to sell many more than what just this board could order in order to make it worth his while. He would have an easy time selling something like a perfect Rolex whatever as opposed to a perfect Sea Hawk or similar such oddity. Members here may snap those up but outside of this board I bet "normal" folks would scratch there head and say "huh?". See what I am saying... too many opinions, even if all are well intentioned...

Wow, what a GREAT post Joshua, thanks. The detail you went into is AWESOME and you laid it out in a very organized and clear manner. THIS is the exact type of info that makes the board interesting and helpful. It was nto just bias info through rose colored glasses to your favorite dealer or anything like that. Just a GREAT post, in fact, though niche, maybe post of the month in my opinion.

Thanks for the head's up, I forgot about this contest but will be giving it a shot.

Part of the reason the response has not been stronger is that (and this is odd I admit) we are starting to actually run out of really great watches that CAN be copied but have not already been. Sure, there are lots of various varrieties of APs or IWCs that we have not seen but we HAVE seen very copies very close to those varriations. We could copy some really nice DRESS watches but in general they have much more limited appeal and the fit and finish are more important on those than any other watch (making copying them even harder). Most of the really popular brands are so widely copies that there is just not much left to choose from (Rolex, Omega, Panerai). I mean would it REALLY excite anyone to get a slightly different panerai model for example? The fact that a freaking Sea Hawk (which is nice yes, but hardly all that exciting) is the current number one choice is a bit telling. I love the idea and admire and respect the work going into this. I really hope it can be pulled off but with Angus dropping killer copies seamingly every other day I think it is stealing soem of the thunder and leaving slim pickings. Or maybe not, just a thought.

I can understand not engraving the LOGO because it is on the movement itself, but the ROTOR should really be engraved. The glued pon letters scare the crap out of me because they ALWAYS fall off. Once they do fall off you are left with a mess as they get caught in the movement and so on. Even if they directly printed on the rotor it would be better than the glue on letters. I am really liking this watch but honestly, the glue on rotor letters is almost enough to make me not buy because it is not a matter of looks but actual reliability with those things. Engrave the rotor and we will all be happy and you will sell more!

Cool, thanks for the info. I thought it was good old Admin from TRC but I was just not sure and felt sort of stupid asking previously for some reason. I am really happy that Admin is also involved with RWG2 as he is a great guy and REALLY works hard. Likewise thanks for the work that ALL the mods and admins have done. I recall that there was some debate over whether there should be more than one board a while back. My opinion was that one board is better than many because it is just easier to follow and keep track of and I did not see the need for more than one. However I am re-considering that thought now as the different feelings of the boards are more obvious to me now then they used to be. On the other boards (where I have been teevtee) in the past it seemed that the tone was more or less the same, but there certainly IS a different vibe between the two I guess. Thanks again

Archibald: Thanks. No opinion or editorial was intended on my part, just an honest question. Seems like a lot of people accidently are reading things into some of my posts recently. It MUST me me or my style of writing because I an not implying anythimng other than what I am directly asking or saying. So thanks for the info, I wasnot really reading a ton when RWG went down, it was during a time when I was very busy elsewhere with other more important things in my life going on. When I got back to reading the boards suddenly there was this odd split and new boards and I never REALLY understood what heppened. Another question for you, and I really should know this but I frankly just don't, is the Admin of RWG2 the same Admin of TRC fame?

Edited

I've had nice bags, catalogds and yes, even receipt envelopes for virtually every gen strap I have ever purchased, HOWEVER, I have never had s BOOK given to me. Very nice, is it a good book? Looks good.

OK, here is a question for you... I was aroud at RWCC and TRC as well as RWGI (all under the screen name teevtee which is the long and odd version of my name here, TVT). ANYWAY, about a year ago I sort of got side tracked and had little time to post or read much, well i read but did not post. Somehow I missed the whole RWGI drama as I was moslty posting on TRC and still do. My question is this... whith TRC still going strong why was RWG2 started? I always thought RWG1 was sort of needless since we had TRC. Now in addition we also have the Dark Side which I don't bother posting on. So is there any specific reason that RWG2 was started instead of just using the long established and well run TRC as the new consolidated home base?

Wow, that is really sad to hear. The markets were just SO large that it is a bizarre thought to think that they are all gone... Wow! I guess I was lucky to hit it while it was at some sort of peak because ever since I was there I just heard report after report of it getting smaller and smaller and now it's GONE! Wow!

So PT chose the most subtle version.... Congratulations to everybody, I look forward to seeing the new logo on PT's site.

>>>If you want to use an adjective that's not replica, use counterfeit. One reason people here prefer the term Replica to Fake is that it's the Replica Watch Group, not the Fake Watch Group. <<<< I have used the word "fake" forever, it is just what I am used to. I have never intended to make any sort of statement with the word nor did I realize peopel cared at all. There is just something about the word "replica" that seems disingenuous to me. I think it stems from the fact that these are, after all, counterfit and illegal items. By callying them "replicas" it sort of raises them to s legit status which to me they do not deserve. but that is not to say they are not great, it is just to say that they are not official, legitmate, authorized "replicas". And so I call them fake but so what, I love fake watches! Nothing wrong with a fake in my mind, it somehow just helps me keep perspective. Now of course everyone is correct that these are actual REAL time peices and so perhpas "fake" is not the best word to use, again, I just never thought about it too much and never realized it bugged people as much as I guess it does. Pugwash is correct that a better way to use the word would be in direct reference to a brand (ie: fake Rolex). I certainly share the same passion for these things ans most people here do, regardless of what I call them. As for the "replica" in the name of the board. Well that stems back to the original board (the Replica Watch Collectors Club) which I am very familiar with since I ran it at one point. The name "replica" was used by it's founder, Andre, because it sounds "classier" when you are trying to SELL watches. Adnre sold watches on the early version of that board and "replica" is just better marketing than "fake". As the various boards have come and gone the term replica moved with it. Anyway, honestly, I am not trying to [censored] anyone off with the term fake, take it with a grain of salt and I will try to not use it as much.

Eddhead: Sorry if anything I said was confusing but I can see why it may have been, let me clarify. Most ETA movements in these watches ARE genuine. When you hear someone say "swiss ETA" they are refering to a genuine ETA made movement. It gets confusing because those "swiss" movements are actually made in China, but in official ETA factories and meeting all the same quality requirements as the ones actually made in switzerland. Now ASIDE from that we are now seeing Asian COPIES of swiss ETA movements. A common one is the Asian 7750, this is a Chinese made COPY of the Swiss ETA 7750 (in other words it is not made by ETA at all, just a copy of the movement). Most dealers refer to this as ASIAN 7750 so it is clear that it is a copy, but we are now seeing OTHER Chinese copies that are simply being refered to as ETA XXXX (sill in the model number). this is causing a lot of confusion because the only real way to know that you are buying a fake copy movement is that they are less expensive. If you are not familiar with prices you could EASILY buy a copy movement and think you were buying the genuine. So you can see it is quite confusing. In general virtually all the movements in these watches are made in Chian, the main difference is that some are official ETA made movements while others are copies having nothing to do with ETA (and probably not matching the quality).

This is an age old question and of course there is no ONE answer. Different people buy fakes for different reasons and I will leave it at that. Do know however that many people buy them NOT to trick people but for other totally un-related reasons. Re; the whole fake or replica thing. I call them fakes and apparently that gets under some people's skin. I call them fakes not to [censored] anyone off or make any sort of statement at all. Rather I just think they ARE fake watches and that is why I call them that. Just like I call and apple and apple, I mean it is a fake watch so I call it a fake watch. A "replica" is something compleetly different. It implies a certain amount of legitimacy. If Tag for example re-issues an old model 9like they have with the Monaco or Monza) then THAT is a replica. It is made by the same company and is a true replica of the original.

Probably just an extended vacation.

Eaxctly Mrnixon! it would be GREAT if there were only nice things to say. It would be WONDERFUL if these things never had problems and it really was a secret holy grail where we could enjoy all the good aspects of genuines with absolutley no down side. But sadly that is simply not the case and for some crazy, bizarre reason some people get offended if you ever point out the down side. They would prefer to either be an ostritch with it's head in the sand or a cheer leader at a rally simply patting each other on the back. I see absolutley no benefit to either of those approaches. I never simply post negative comments for the sake of doing so or for the sake of bringing someone down. I certainly have NEVER attacked someone or called them or their opinions names (a courtesy sadly NOT extended to myself). However when someone such as yourself specificly asks for the truth I will ALWAYS give it to you, both the good (of which there is plenty) and the bad. Hambone: Just because someone does not agree with everything that everyone on the board says does not mean that they are negative and out to spoil the party. If you porefer to not ever read about anything negative being writen about a fake watch then you are just closing your eyes. Why not embrace the good AND the bad about these things? Then you can be truly aware of what is going on and make informed decisions. Finally the whole "fake" versus "replica" thing. I have been through this many times so I will keep it short. I call them fakes because lets be honest, that is what they are and I just prefer the term as it is a more accurate reflection of the facts and the truth. To me a "fake" is no worse than a "replica".

>>>Sorry to contradict you, Ken... but the GZ market has come under pressure from the thought police. I was there last month - not a single rep on view. Everything interesting is undercover. <<< Wow Clive, that is SHOCKING, I mean literally SHOCKING. I knoe w that the markets wer eunder some pressure and that shortly after my visit (September 2005) they had ben cracked down on. But to have NO watches is almost unfathomable to me. I mean there were so many different buildings and so many different dealers selling quite literally millions of watches that I am dumbfounded that they are gone. What is all of the physical space being used for now? All of the "international watch" buildings? You have a TON a square footage there that must be used for something. Even when I was there you had to work to see the good stuff, often being brought up stairs to private offices to see the high end fakes. Not to sound silly but are you sure you wer ein the right place?

I try so hard NOT to be the guy that I think Riuchard Tracy is suggesting I am that it has become somewhat comical. Everty time I write somehting negative about a fake watch I need to put a little positive comment in there as a mitigator. I always make sure to say something like "But I own many fake watches and I enjoy them." or "Gens have there place and so do fakes, they are both great depoending on what your expectations are." and so on. It is absolutely ridiculous that I feel the need to do this but I do precisely because I do NOT want to be seen as some anti fake guy or accused of being "negative". But you knwo what? there is nothing negative abotu posting factual, honest replys to specific questions posed by people looking for honest answers. It's not liek I am swinging by a thread and just randomly saying "fakes suck!" This big nagative spree of mine consists of commenst posted in two threads. the first one asked in the Asian 7750 was a good movement. Seeing that I have had several show up DOA and that the majority of peopel who have problems with fakes tend to be those with Asian 7750s I said no, in my opinion it is NOT a good movement. And of course I was accused of being soem fake hating guy too blind to see the beauty of these "fine timepieces". The in this thread it was asked what can be expected of fakes versus similarly priced gens. And God help me for offering an opinion that in some cases a gen might be a better choice. Hell, I did not even say that, I just stated some facts... both positive and negative. So come on, give me a break here. I have been participating on the various boards since the VERY start of them (and I mean day one). I obviously enjoy the things and I have made MANY substatial posts that wallow in the splendor which is fake watches (see my LONG Guangzhou trip report). But I am capable of both enjoying fake watches AND realizing what they are and what limitations they have. When people ask about them I will ALWAYS be honest, which includes the negative side of the coin. I have NEVER tried to "educate" anyone who did not ask a specific question which required a specific answer... and I don't need an education about my positivity or lack thereof either.

Most PAMs I have seen with "AR coating" is just that fake light blue film. It certainly does ot make it less reflective, it only makes the reflection blue! Actual AR does just that, eliminates reflection!

@Pugwash... OK, will do, made nice. @Davedander; I think that the main falling off point for the fakes are the fit and finsih but it is hard to generalize because I have seen examples from both sides. In other words I have seen $30 generic watches passed off as $200 "replicas" simply because a brand name is stamped on it. On the other hand I have seen fakes that I think would stand thier own quite well against equally priced dept. store brands... so it is really a cse by case type of thing. In general though sure, i think we pay more just because of the name and a good way to determine that is by looking at some of the "legitimate fake" brands liek Invita. Invita for all the world more or less sells watches VERY similar to the fakes we get here, is styles aping all the major gen brands, only they stamp "Invita" on them instead of "Rolex", "Bell and Ross" or "Cartier". The thing is that invitas typically are less expesnive than the equivilent fakes; http://www.shopnbc.com/product/?track=-652...2663cs290152107 So if an Invicta is $80 - $250 typically and a fake is $100 - $300 (not including any possible out of the box service) one can pretty easily start to see exactly what we are paying extra in order to have the name. Not a huge difference but percentage wise not small either, plus the dept. store brand will have warrenty etc. The other factore is that with dept. store brands there is a fixed price and you can likely find very good deals on the net. With fakes you may get a great deal or you may not, depending on who you buy it from and when (I look back at fakes I bought 4 years agao and kick myself! $400 for a middle of the road type if thing worth maybe $100... live and learn) On the other side of the coind I have some fakes that have served me very well, run flawlessly and look MUCH more expensive then they are with excellent (though not gen level) fit and finish. I am not sure there is any clear black and white answer to this one.