Jawo Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I'm sure some are "Concerned" about how close some of the reps are getting... panerai started engraving all sorts of parts and making things more intricate... I doubt the rep factories are watching though... otherwise they'd be way further along... how many times do they seem to be going backwards in their accuracy or quality... how many times is V1 better than V3?? just like in software... they're more interested in shutting down the manufacturers and distributers than the buyers... that's the only thing that will slow the progress... also keeping in mind that the vast majority of people buying reps would never actually buy a gen... and that's not lost revenue for the gen manufacturers... I don't know about that. All the more reason to come out with V1, V2, V3, V4 and Ultimate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucesreps Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Yes, we are all being watched.... By Chuck Norris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 There is no such thing as Bad Publicity. Rep's and these forums are some of the BEST FREE advertising for the Manufacturers. Reps in many cases are like a gateway drug. Many of us own Gen's, or move up and on to Gens. To squash this community would be dumb. Especially in the current economic climate. True, some will never pony up the $$$$ for a gen, but wearing that rep Rolex in public ~might~ cause an average person to buy a Rolex. It is not until the math works in their favor that anything will or should be done. If reps turn into Napster/torrent equivalent popularity, maybe then we will have a problem. In these economic times it is not even worth it to pay their lawyers. As for PayPal, the ONLY reason they would be here is if they are "investigating a specific dispute". They are NOT in the enforcement business. They only "React" when needed. They are not paying someone to actively police this stuff. Remember, to THEM, the more transactions that flow through them the more $$$ THEY make as well. Ignorance is bliss in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad dawg Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 There is no such thing as Bad Publicity. Rep's and these forums are some of the BEST FREE advertising for the Manufacturers. I feel you are very close to the practicalities of the industry. Being a new member I note that the people on this forum a primarily interested in modding watches for personal enjoyment, there is not much interest in trading/distributing for profit. Therefore there is not much to be gained from shutting theses forums down. MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Dutchie, Do not drive with your rep watch on and your arm hanging out the window. The undercover repwatch assoc. may very well have an agent wearing a magnetic suit and could be under your car snapping pics of your wrist as you drive, as they continue to build an ironclad case against you and anyone who looks like you. These are very precarious times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 How about this: Everyone who is in the watch manufacturing business visits these forums. I would luv to know if there are a few who aren't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllergyDoc Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 At the AD near me in NYC at a very tall building in a circle named after an explorer.... The people who work there can just barely tell the brands apart. I have heard them time and time again explain how the manual panerai do not need to be wound, I have asked for certain watches by model name or number and gotten blank stares, etc,etc,etc...... Do not wear your reps in there out principle but do not think for one second that 8 out of 10 these low paid employees know much of anything about watches or care one bit about reps. Only someone with a serious personal passion for watches could spot one of our modded reps off the wrist. AD's are not those people in most cases. The community of modded high end reps is very very small. Most people in the business would be stunned to learn about modding etc.... In NYC they care about one thing. Selling watches to make commission. That said....Still do not wear your watches in the AD to prove a point. P.S. On the same topic....................... Hello to the guy in front of me in pinkberry in the same area tonight around 8:45 who was wearing the new PP aquanaut that the cartels just released. Hi, Do you not think that we where watched? That there where not a member or 2 from e.g. Rolex…..maybe I am paranoid…. Listening in? But I am very sure WE ARE NOT ALONE… Sometime all this: “ Do not bring the REP to a AD is over the top!” They know what we/they are up to….they buy REP watches and follow our thoughts….just because they cannot stop “us”, does not mean that they do not keep a close eye on us! If we could find this place, so can they! Am I Paranoia? Are we being watched? TFDM P.S. Did Rolex bring RG down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflyingdutchman Posted August 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Today there was a black van in front of my house....It drove away as DHL arrived with a parcel....I AM WORRIED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 There is no such thing as Bad Publicity. Rep's and these forums are some of the BEST FREE advertising for the Manufacturers. There is such a thing as bad publicity. We are the exact opposite of free advertising; we're Brand Dilution. We're the reason Rolex need to reassure the public that Rolexes are the best watches ever. We are the ones that make people think Rolexes are all fakes and therefore not worth buying. Don't think for one minute that Rolex in anyway like us or even respect us. We're a direct bottom line cost to their business. In no way should we ever think we're anything but a royal pain in their sides. It's depressing to admit it, but let's not kid ourselves about it. Good Marketing isn't about getting as much publicity out there as possible, it's about getting the right kind of publicity out there. Let's say Josef Fritzl were photographed with a new-style Yachtmaster on his wrist, and that model were to be known as the Fritzl Yachtmaster, do you think that would help sales? Let's say the Rolex Sub were repped so much that sales dropped directly as a result as no-one wanted to be seen wearing a watch that was an obvious fake. Do you think Rolex would thank us as a community for raising awareness of the Sub? It's time to get real about this and stop pretending in some way we're helping the big brands. We're not. They hate us and they're watching us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 There is such a thing as bad publicity. We are the exact opposite of free advertising; we're Brand Dilution. We're the reason Rolex need to reassure the public that Rolexes are the best watches ever. We are the ones that make people think Rolexes are all fakes and therefore not worth buying. Don't think for one minute that Rolex in anyway like us or even respect us. We're a direct bottom line cost to their business. In no way should we ever think we're anything but a royal pain in their sides. It's depressing to admit it, but let's not kid ourselves about it. Good Marketing isn't about getting as much publicity out there as possible, it's about getting the right kind of publicity out there. Let's say Josef Fritzl were photographed with a new-style Yachtmaster on his wrist, and that model were to be known as the Fritzl Yachtmaster, do you think that would help sales? Let's say the Rolex Sub were repped so much that sales dropped directly as a result as no-one wanted to be seen wearing a watch that was an obvious fake. Do you think Rolex would thank us as a community for raising awareness of the Sub? It's time to get real about this and stop pretending in some way we're helping the big brands. We're not. They hate us and they're watching us. I would have said "make people realize that *insert High End Brand here* are not worth buying", but that's just me They can hate me all they want, I'll just keep on hating them back for their corporate greed, and carry on buying reps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I would have said "make people realize that *insert High End Brand here* are not worth buying", but that's just me They can hate me all they want, I'll just keep on hating them back for their corporate greed, and carry on buying reps:D Sure, as long as you don't pretend the companies are happy you're promoting their brands. It's not corporate greed, by the way, but I'll let you off that one. Rolex aren't overcharging that much if you sit down and do the maths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 In addition to the brand dilution, which is a serious issue (from the gen makers' point of view), there are also lost sales that directly result from potential buyers choosing a rep instead of the gen. As the quality of reps have improved (those who have been collectors for more then 10 years know what I mean), it becomes a harder sell for gen makers to justify their high prices, even if those prices are justified. Even some watch magazines have begun to pose this argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Sure, as long as you don't pretend the companies are happy you're promoting their brands. That's never been a misconception I've labored under It's not corporate greed, by the way, but I'll let you off that one. Rolex aren't overcharging that much if you sit down and do the maths. I agree with the point you made the other day about modified movements being better than stock, so I admit, there is some credence that the movements are worth more than some of the basic movements in reps, but overall, I still feel the prices are artificially inflated. Of course, that's business, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it Fair Trade watches are what it's all about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Had a conversation with a Homeland Scurity Agent once.. he was adimant about his dislike of "fakes" he stated that he is a member of TZ,.. watchuseek .. all the genuine foras.. so I would expect he is all over the rep boards doing research also.. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 In addition to the brand dilution, which is a serious issue (from the gen makers' point of view), there are also lost sales that directly result from potential buyers choosing a rep instead of the gen. As the quality of reps have improved (those who have been collectors for more then 10 years know what I mean), it becomes a harder sell for gen makers to justify their high prices, even if those prices are justified. Even some watch magazines have begun to pose this argument. Yeah, but the replica makers don't have to pay for design, testing, certification, licensing, advertising, marketing, distribution, wholesale discounts, returns, warranties, duty, taxes ... and still have to sell it to their direct customers (the ADs) for half the retail price. You think Josh, or any other rep dealer, pays income tax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I do think that reps may inadvertently help boost product awareness; not because they're reps, but because they are mistaken as gen. If someone happens to catch a glimpse of the watch on your wrist and it's perceived as a genuine, that may or may not influence someone's decision to buy the same watch. If they only know what they see (i.e. they are not an expert in identifying or discerning the difference between a genuine and a replica), then there's no way to really acredit that purchase of a gen to replicas directly. I do agree that potential lost sales or decreased market share are likely enough of a concern for a business to take appropriate action. However, the focus of attack is probably done at the source of production or distribution, and less concentrated at the level of consumer due to volume. It would be extremely difficult to hit each individual buyer, but at the dist or production level, it's a little easier to target for aggregation. And also a fair bit more transparent to us, the end user... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I totally agree with you Pug. Also i would add, that those board kinda spread the delusion that rep are "olmost as good as gen" or even "as good". Wich imho is waaay off. dont get me wrong i love reps, or i wouldnt be here. they are fun and accessible. and indeed they are quite good, they could compare to low brand like tisso or festina, but not to there gen conterpart. And as pug say, i don't find rolex price much overpriced neither. So not only rep board dilute the brand image, but it kinda devaluate the producte perception to many menbers who themself will vehiculate that opinion to other people. And to come back to the begining of the topic: of course we are watched, i dont see how compagnies like swatch group, Richemont, LVMH, Rolex etc. that all have an anual budget for "right management" and "war angains contrefit goods", could miss such large and accessible forum. They most probably dont care about menbers, but it is certainly a very valuable source of information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 @ubi yes seing a lot of people with sub, mays atract other to get that sub wich is a social status symbol. As long as there seen as gen. but on the other hand, it is true that many people avoid to buy a rolex as it is seen "too common" and closyly associated with "fakes" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I agtree that Rolex would like to see a select group wearing their brand.. as far as diluttion.. that's a very sophisticated word for "cheapening" their brand.. I'm sure Rolex would like to see just a certain "class" of society wearing their timepieces. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yeah, but the replica makers don't have to pay for design, testing, certification, licensing, advertising, marketing, distribution, wholesale discounts, returns, warranties, duty, taxes ... and still have to sell it to their direct customers (the ADs) for half the retail price. You think Josh, or any other rep dealer, pays income tax? From what you've said about the organized crime nature of the rep manufacturing end of things, I'm sure he pays his 'tributes' to keep from getting his legs broke As for those other things, I think it's safe to say Rolex have recouped their design costs a long[/] time ago... I think if someone actually wants to buy a gen, then they will do so. I don't think reps actually take away gen sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm sure Rolex would like to see just a certain "class" of society wearing their timepieces. are you shure lani ? Maybe now, but that olmost would be a political position, and would go against there interest, as "a sell is a sell" and money dont have smell. Also remenber rolex was offering free watch to any war prisoner during WW2, so rolex which is a familial company (unlike many other), certainly wasnt like that back in the days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 From what you've said about the organized crime nature of the rep manufacturing end of things, I'm sure he pays his 'tributes' to keep from getting his legs broke I suspect he pays less bribes than the factories have to. As for those other things, I think it's safe to say Rolex have recouped their design costs a long[/] time ago... I think if someone actually wants to buy a gen, then they will do so. I don't think reps actually take away gen sales. You think the Deep Sea had no design costs? Interesting ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 You think the Deep Sea had no design costs? Interesting ... also think of the craftmanshipp cost of a swiss watchmith compare to the average salary in china. Swiss industry also regualy upgrade there machinery to the "state of the art" A friend of mine who had the chance to visit JLC manufacture after an advertizing contract was explained how they had to order specific tooling that costed billion of dollar, just to be able to produce the gyro tourbillon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 are you shure lani ? Maybe now, but that olmost would be a political position, and would go against there interest, as "a sell is a sell" and money dont have smell. Also remenber rolex was offering free watch to any war prisoner during WW2, so rolex which is a familial company (unlike many other), certainly wasnt like that back in the days. Interesting bit of history ..vlaletom I guess my read is that of the AD's and how they treat different sets of people and country of origins .... it's an interesting social lesson these AD's .. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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