To wear or not to wear

[Toadtorrent]

Back to the topic at hand, I am with Lani prudent planning and wise selection are the best bet here. 90% of people you come into contact with daily will never even pay attention to your watch, of the 10% that do the chances of them calling you out are pretty slim. I would not however buy a rep of a gen that I could not afford.

Agreed. The only people who have paid attention to any of my watches at all are either people interested in watches, and that has opened up some interesting discussion and introduction to the world of reps and watches in general...or are designers who notice details like that.

I actually think it would be fun to get an extremely out-of-range rep so obviously fake because likely nobody would notice it anyways, and if they did it would be kind of a joke and cause a good chuckle (like a PP Sky Moon or uber-blinged out HBB. Vintage Rollies don't work as well for this because nobody but collectors understand the vintage market or really know what they are worth.

[TeeJay]

A 217, I do beleive your right TeeJay. It also looks to be on a SC strap

And to have two 217s, that monkey must be into some big pimpin

[TeeJay]

Agreed. The only people who have paid attention to any of my watches at all are either people interested in watches, and that has opened up some interesting discussion and introduction to the world of reps and watches in general...or are designers who notice details like that.

I actually think it would be fun to get an extremely out-of-range rep so obviously fake because likely nobody would notice it anyways, and if they did it would be kind of a joke and cause a good chuckle (like a PP Sky Moon or uber-blinged out HBB. Vintage Rollies don't work as well for this because nobody but collectors understand the vintage market or really know what they are worth.

That's why I built one (well, something along the lines of one )

[P4GTR]

I also recently read about cartel involvement in the manufacture of replica handbags, shoes and watches and the human rights issues that go along with them. Children forced to work, mothers, daughters and older people forced to work for little pay and punishment.

So if you can't afford a 10 or 20 grand watch buy what you can afford and don't pretend to be someone your not, you are only selling out yourself.

Oh. So, basically, you refuse to shop at wal-mart? You boycott most goods and services China based? Have you gone off of the grid entirely?

That chair your seated in browsing RWG is almost definately made in China by god knows who's 4 year old child. The kids already missing 3 fingers, of which, a piece of one could be rotting in your fake leather seat cushion.

[lukes]

This has been a topic on my mind recently, so I'd like to pitch in my 0.02

[RDubya]

Wow, some excellent feedback from both sides. Thanks everyone. I get the impression (and perhaps appropriately so) that most of the folks who own the gens are less apt to sport the reps publicly, and those of us who can only afford the reps (but fancy themselves into thinking them indistinguishable to 99% of people, me included), are perhaps more likely to wear them (albeit with sensible discretion).

I bought an IWC rep this year, but only wore it publicly maybe 2-3 times before I sold it (apparently I agreed, it was trying to be something I'm not, it just never felt right, despite my admiration of the design/its beauty), whereas my rep Omega PO with rubber strap is worn daily (I really dont have any problems with this one, as I feel the gen is within my grasp but I'm perfectly happy with the rep). Personally I've never had anyone question one of my reps, so I'll not be labeled as one of the types to not admit as such if/when asked. No shame in explaining "its a custom watch, etc etc" especially if its an unbranded rep like the PAM I just bought. Its so true that most folks never notice or are indifferent.

Personally I always notice watches, always have for some reason. Not in terms of making a socioeconomic evaluation of the people I come across (far from it), just a fan of watches is all. I make it a habit of complimenting people on their timepieces if I see something I admire (especially if its uncommon). People always love that. Not just the overpriced gens either. A buddy of mine bought a Suunto with all kinds data measuring capabilities, very cool. For the record I dont wear or sport any other jewelry and typically make it a point not to wear branded clothing. For some reason, I do love me a nice watch though.

As for the moral implications/human rights issues, unfortunately I feel this applies to so many things we as consumers take for granted, beyond reps. Nonetheless a very important subject and obviously something I didnt consider when starting the topic, but I'm glad it was raised.

I'm still trying to determine how or why I'm an idiot for paying cash for a used car. Its a really nice/great performing car with a solid motor, and had low mileage from single owner (I ended up paying about 60% less than what he paid retail). I absolutely love not having monthly payments, a real win/win to me. My home is my gold mine as far as tax breaks are concerned. But then again I'm a small fish in a big pond. In any case, wasnt my intention to dismiss or discredit the folks who do lease. To each his own.

My guesstimated middle class percentages are clearly rejected. Point taken. Obviously definitions vary as to what qualifies, and everything is subjective. Wasnt my intention to make political implications aligned with the current administration. Whatever your definitions, the middle class is a large group, and I dont feel (being a member of this group) that our society is as class conscious as they may be in some EU nations. If I'm way off base here, fair enough.

Fakemaster, thanks for making me laugh out loud, and Wombat247, great posts. All this great feedback hopefully only strengthens each of ours appreciation for this diverse forum and our shared passion for watches.

[mbjoer]

The use (or not) of reps by rep owners is very personal.

I slipped into reps a bit by accident. I needed a new watch. But did not want to pay a fortune, so started on Ebay with unknown brands.

Big mistake.

Then came across the fake world and decided to try it out, crossing my fingers, pressing the "buy" button - and got burned...

Next stop RWG and sister fora. From there I never looked back.

The thing is that I like nice watches. No....not so.....I LOVE THEM!

So now I have a fair few. I wear them openly - with one exception: I do not wear them when visiting ADs as I do not wish to offend anyone. Many people know what I do but more do not. The thing is that no-one knows my financial situation. I could possibly afford the watches I wear and so they may seem right. Only I know if that would be the case.

No-one in the the UK - other than my children - has ever commented on my watches to me. Different story in Scandinavia where they are more brand concious than here. I guess it all depends on the culture in which you move around.

To me it is about value for money. With reps I get a lot.

Awaiting the next delivery within a few days...

Edited August 27, 2009 by mbjoer

[Oyster]

Here's my 2 cents. First of all, I've only got one rep as it is my policy. Strange yes, plus I've also the same rule as some folks here to keep a total of 10 watches at most.

Do I wear my rep? Absolutely! both in and outdoor. Watches are meant to be worn and tell time and I've never been asked if they are a fake. However I do tell them its a rep if they asked but oftentimes they wouldn't believe me and will ask how much I got it for. I'll smile at them and then move on to other topic of conversation

Buying and wearing rep is a personal choice just like diets. Its your call.

However I do dislike what the Swiss watch industry has became. 80% of all Swiss watches are powered by eta and they are priced from affordable to exorbitant. The later I find ridiculous and unworthy for what they are. It is the very notion of lifestyle that they are selling. Again, a personal choice on how you look at it.

I for one are attracted to the design of the watch not the brand, hence my preference above. However at times I'm being sold on the lifestyle bit as well. Activities like, motor sports and water sports are my weaknesses. The good thing is, there are plenty of alternatives out there

From where I come from buying a good piece meant buying an expensive brand irregardless of what movements the piece has. Omega, Panerai, IWC, B&R, Rolex are amongst their favorite. They simply must have them, 10+ watches are their desired goal. I must admit that they do have the dispensable income to afford such time pieces plus they do drive good cars like BMW, Porsche and the likes and living in posh areas. Now I'm not talking about car prices in the UK and USA but prices in Singapore. No problem there if they can afford them but what I dislike most are their attitude. If their friends has them, they must have them too. Well its their money... not mine

Rob

[TeeJay]

Here's my 2 cents. First of all, I've only got one rep as it is my policy. Strange yes, plus I've also the same rule as some folks here to keep a total of 10 watches at most.

Do I wear my rep? Absolutely! both in and outdoor. Watches are meant to be worn and tell time and I've never been asked if they are a fake. However I do tell them its a rep if they asked but oftentimes they wouldn't believe me and will ask how much I got it for. I'll smile at them and then move on to other topic of conversation

Buying and wearing rep is a personal choice just like diets. Its your call.

However I do dislike what the Swiss watch industry has became. 80% of all Swiss watches are powered by eta and they are priced from affordable to exorbitant. The later I find ridiculous and unworthy for what they are. It is the very notion of lifestyle that they are selling. Again, a personal choice on how you look at it.

I for one are attracted to the design of the watch not the brand, hence my preference above. However at times I'm being sold on the lifestyle bit as well. Activities like, motor sports and water sports are my weaknesses. The good thing is, there are plenty of alternatives out there

From where I come from buying a good piece meant buying an expensive brand irregardless of what movements the piece has. Omega, Panerai, IWC, B&R, Rolex are amongst their favorite. They simply must have them, 10+ watches are their desired goal. I must admit that they do have the dispensable income to afford such time pieces plus they do drive good cars like BMW, Porsche and the likes and living in posh areas. Now I'm not talking about car prices in the UK and USA but prices in Singapore. No problem there if they can afford them but what I dislike most are their attitude. If their friends has them, they must have them too. Well its their money... not mine

Rob

I know what you mean there, but, would you say that things like the sports were lifestyles which you picked up because of the watches, or, were they interests you already had, and simply gravitated towards the watches which best complemented that lifestyle? I've always loved swimming and any kind of water-based activity, so I've always wanted watches which I could wear in the water (I really don't like being without a watch on for any great length of time) so I just gravitated towards (no doubt helped along the way by James Bond) diver's watches as my primary interest, and, as I enjoy travel, by extension, the GMT complication as well I totally get what you mean about the attitude though. I know one person in particular who is so far up her own ass, it's unbelievable. To hear her describe herself, you'd think she was some kind of gorgeous super-model, when truth be told, she's more than a little on the chunky side, is nearly the same color as a carrot, thanks to fake-tan and sunbeds, and just wears the most tacky, gaudy clothes and bling outside of a 70s Pimp. She seems to think that because she's 'got money', she's above everyone else, and that she's the Top Notch, when truth is, she's the embodiment of all the worst traits of a nouveau riche wannabe footballer's wife/girlfriend (and the one of those I know, is so down to earth, it's laughable by comparison) and those're the worst kind of attitudes to encounter, as they just think that the trappings of wealth somehow make them a better person...

[gran]

wearing a desireable watch:its all about looking sexy (or handsome) for me...or maybe its more complicated than that....for some wearing a warch is to give signals about who they are or wish to be...to live out a dream is what we do wearing replicas and dreams are important

[ammandel]

TJ, I apologise for patronising you. I simply don't believe that involvement in the rep world in general goes hand in hand with hatred for luxury goods. To me, it looks like you are aspiring to own a Rolex.. and if you aren't then I don't understand why you have reps in the first place? There are plenty of other watches out there that look similar. Surely searching for luxury items/replicas is how you ended up here in the first place?

I think this discussion *is* complex, because you are critising other peoples actions in certain ways. I think that other's actions is causing a secondary effect that you are linking to items.

I'm having trouble trying to explain this, and explain it in a diplomatic way.. My observation (and not that it means much obviously..) is that you seem so affected by others bragging/flashiness that this behaviour is leading you to dislike the items and what they they represent to your perception of that individual. You don't want to think that you are like 'that guy who wears the Gen Sub and thinks hes something special because of it'. But this is going beyond the item itself and really linking it to other individuals rather than items.

I don't suppose this is really worth getting deep into, I certainly dont want to insult you at all TJ. I just find your views very unique given the subject matter of our niche.

[Oyster]

I know what you mean there, but, would you say that things like the sports were lifestyles which you picked up because of the watches, or, were they interests you already had, and simply gravitated towards the watches which best complemented that lifestyle? I've always loved swimming and any kind of water-based activity, so I've always wanted watches which I could wear in the water (I really don't like being without a watch on for any great length of time) so I just gravitated towards (no doubt helped along the way by James Bond) diver's watches as my primary interest, and, as I enjoy travel, by extension, the GMT complication as well I totally get what you mean about the attitude though. I know one person in particular who is so far up her own ass, it's unbelievable. To hear her describe herself, you'd think she was some kind of gorgeous super-model, when truth be told, she's more than a little on the chunky side, is nearly the same color as a carrot, thanks to fake-tan and sunbeds, and just wears the most tacky, gaudy clothes and bling outside of a 70s Pimp. She seems to think that because she's 'got money', she's above everyone else, and that she's the Top Notch, when truth is, she's the embodiment of all the worst traits of a nouveau riche wannabe footballer's wife/girlfriend (and the one of those I know, is so down to earth, it's laughable by comparison) and those're the worst kind of attitudes to encounter, as they just think that the trappings of wealth somehow make them a better person...

Sports for me come before watches and along the way watch as a tool became a necessity, diving for instance. What I'm trying to relate are the luxury, watch manufacturer are ingraining into our very mind, the association in other word. When both these elements are combined it is a lifestyle and by that watch manufacturer can priced their products a little higher. It is far from complementing as you mentioned unless the tool itself are utilized.

Innovative diving tool watch for instance are created to serve a purpose, that is to aid the diver in time spent underwater and for the mandatory decompression before ascending safely to the surface. Now that perfectly make sense decades ago when the sub/sd & etc were used by divers be it recreational or commercial. Nowadays they are merely show pieces. Why? The cost!

Now how often do you see divers dive with their JLC Master Compressor Pro Geographic? It is a master piece, yes, mechanically superior, yes but the cost of the watch rendered it a museum piece at the end of the day The depth capability is yet another joke. Again it is a triumph in innovation but with zero practicality.

And I'm not saying that this is a bad thing but making loads of profit seemed to derail the very core of a tool watch and the mechanical innovations they proudly advertised.

[TeeJay]

TJ, I apologise for patronising you. I simply don't believe that involvement in the rep world in general goes hand in hand with hatred for luxury goods.

No offense taken at all, I understand that my opinions can appear somewhat contradictory to others

As I said before, it is not the luxury goods which I hate, but the greed of the industry. With regards to watches, for me, the pleasure is treating it as a project. A gen is perfect, so there's no need to tinker (beyond a desire to customize) where reps allow greater scale for customization. If gens were not so over-priced, then I wouldn't have any problem with them whatsoever.

To me, it looks like you are aspiring to own a Rolex..

I do own a Rolex... It was just made on my coffee table rather than a Swiss clean room As before, it's not the end product which I take issue with. Sure, I've tried on gens which didn't impress me, but that was simply a case of those particular watches not impressing me, just like I've worn reps which didn't impress me either, or jackets, or shoes, or any number of garments. At the end of the day, I try not to perceive watches as prestige items, just 'items', which I either like, or dislike accordingly.

There are plenty of other watches out there that look similar.

Similar, but not the same, and, as mentioned, much of my interest is down to the aesthetics

I think this discussion *is* complex, because you are critising other peoples actions in certain ways. I think that other's actions is causing a secondary effect that you are linking to items.

The only people's actions I'm criticizing, are those people who think that being able to buy a gen, makes them a superior human being. I'm not anti-all gen owners, because not all gen owners are like that. As before, I am very much anti-consumersism, and it is the industry itself which I dislike, not the output, and not the majority of the 'end users'

I think that other's actions is causing a secondary effect that you are linking to items.

Although I can certainly understand how it seems that way, I'd disagree, for the reason mentioned above. For example, when I tried on an EXP II, I just didn't like how it looked or felt on my wrist. It probably wasn't even on my wrist 10 seconds. It was an instant disliking to it as a watch, not because it was a gen, or it's price, but because I just 'didn't like it'. Again, when I tried on a DJ, while it felt nicer than the EXP II, I felt it was too small for me, so again, while it was a nice watch in its own right, it did nothing for me at all, if that's making any sense?

I'm having trouble trying to explain this, and explain it in a diplomatic way.. My observation (and not that it means much obviously..) is that you seem so affected by others bragging/flashiness that this behaviour is leading you to dislike the items and what they they represent to your perception of that individual. You don't want to think that you are like 'that guy who wears the Gen Sub and thinks hes something special because of it'. But this is going beyond the item itself and really linking it to other individuals rather than items.

Again, I'd pretty much say what I did immediately above, and in the previous post: I might dislike 'that kind of person', but that doesn't make me hate the product. I might hate the industry, but again, that doesn't make me hate the product either. On the other hand, if the product doesn't appeal to me, then I'm not going to think I should like it just because of an artificially inflated price tag, and I will solely view it based on what 'it is'

I don't suppose this is really worth getting deep into, I certainly dont want to insult you at all TJ. I just find your views very unique given the subject matter of our niche.

Again, I'm not insulted at all, as I know my opinions can appear contradictory to folks who don't know me well, that's why I explained about my wardrobe's origin. The LV bag, was a replacement for a messenger bag I'd had for about 8 years, so I wanted something which would last equally as well, and, from a previous purchase with KB, I had a hunch that it would (last as well) and it would have, had I not crammed in the equivalent of several phone directories and over-stressed the strap's adjusting buckle, but since knotting the strap back together, it has otherwise been flawless in durability As before, my interest in reps is not so much a case of wanting to acquire 'a prestige product' for the sake of having 'a prestige product', but a way of acquiring a nice watch (which has a particular aesthetic) for a reasonable price As I've mentioned before, I like to think of reps as 'fair trade' watches I hope that makes my opinion a little clearer

[TeeJay]

Sports for me come before watches and along the way watch as a tool became a necessity, diving for instance. What I'm trying to relate are the luxury, watch manufacturer are ingraining into our very mind, the association in other word. When both these elements are combined it is a lifestyle and by that watch manufacturer can priced their products a little higher. It is far from complementing as you mentioned unless the tool itself are utilized.

Innovative diving tool watch for instance are created to serve a purpose, that is to aid the diver in time spent underwater and for the mandatory decompression before ascending safely to the surface. Now that perfectly make sense decades ago when the sub/sd & etc were used by divers be it recreational or commercial. Nowadays they are merely show pieces. Why? The cost!

Now how often do you see divers dive with their JLC Master Compressor Pro Geographic? It is a master piece, yes, mechanically superior, yes but the cost of the watch rendered it a museum piece at the end of the day The depth capability is yet another joke. Again it is a triumph in innovation but with zero practicality.

And I'm not saying that this is a bad thing but making loads of profit seemed to derail the very core of a tool watch and the mechanical innovations they proudly advertised.

Ahh, I see entirely what you mean, and I quite agree, the profit is definitely derailing the core ethic of a tool watch I would say that the DSSD falls under the same catagory, in that it is over-engineered, and can withstand pressures which would kill the wearer

[Oyster]

Ahh, I see entirely what you mean, and I quite agree, the profit is definitely derailing the core ethic of a tool watch I would say that the DSSD falls under the same catagory, in that it is over-engineered, and can withstand pressures which would kill the wearer

LOL

On the contrary by wearing such a piece on land that is, would boast the wearer ego tremendously

That aside, in the material world that we live in, watches are just another item for show and not for telling time joining other expensive toys/lifestyle the rich are accustom to, for the heck of it that's the very purpose why these establishment exist the first place.

[By-Tor]

One thing that I have always wondered about these discussions is that even us WIS visualize Rolex synonymous to money and wealth.

A preowned Rolex costs 2K to 6K (the most popular modern stainless models). I mean, if you're interested in watches and you're a working adult, a few K's isn't a lot of money. Most of us average guys make that much every month.

People "invest" 30K on a silly car and nobody raises an eyelid... and people invest a lot of money to their hobbies. But when you're wearing a $4K Rolex suddenly you must be a rich man. Why the hell is that?

I could understand if we're talking about Patek, JLC or Breguet here... but it's only a lowly modern steel Rolex... not a real high end piece. The rarities and vintages are a different matter of course.

[Oyster]

One thing that I have always wondered about these discussions is that even us WIS visualize Rolex synonymous to money and wealth.

A preowned Rolex costs 2K to 6K (the most popular modern stainless models). I mean, if you're interested in watches and you're a working adult, a few K's isn't a lot of money. Most of us average guys make that much every month.

People "invest" 30K on a silly car and nobody raises an eyelid... and people invest a lot of money to their hobbies. But when you're wearing a $4K Rolex suddenly you must be a rich man. Why the hell is that?

I could understand if we're talking about Patek, JLC or Breguet here... but it's only a lowly modern steel Rolex... not a real high end piece. The rarities and vintages are a different matter of course.

You made very good points there By-Tor. On a different note when a rep is spotted, a big fuss is guaranteed to ensued, why is that the case? It all boils down to the question of "You can't afford it" Stereotype at its best

[By-Tor]

Maybe this kind of thinking is just tied to Rolex, which is many people's minds is synonymous to ostentation. Many non-WIS people think Rolex is the "best" and "super expensive" as well. It has certain image.

PS: We had an interesting thread about different brands and how non-WIS people see them. Read it here.

[Oyster]

Thanks for the link. Locale is another point to factor in where almost every commercial brand names are quite well known from where I'm at. Typically a person from here would ask if its fake first before anything else.

[Jkay]

I wear my two reps in public and find that when I wear the Bell & Ross 01-94 I don't think about it as much, as no one knows what the hell B&R even is. My Grandparents asked me if my kids got it for me, and my co-workers actually asked the same. If people buy reps to "fool" others and "be who they aren't" then why are brands with little to no consumer recognition made and sold? I bought that watch because I thought it was beautiful, and couldn't reconcile paying a 50x mark-up for a Gen. It's a SQUARE made out of steel. It's not really worth anywhere near thousands of dollars. Yes I love it's form but why be robbed to get something I want?

And yes, non-artisan Gen makers rob you. They bend you over a railing and fuck you while whispering sweet poetry into your ear, and then pass you along to their Dealership "roadies" for additional raping via shoddy servicing at astronomical prices.

Is a true artisan-built watch like the Simplicity worth $600,000 USD? Perhaps. Perhaps not. You are paying for the lifetime of experience a true engraver/machinist/painter/jeweler brings to the table. That is NOT what you get from the maker of a stainless steel dive watch or aviator's watch like a Rolex tool model or a Breitling or a Graham.

I love watches. I refuse to be the main character in an Emperor's New Clothes re-write. If I can buy something I love for 1/50 the price then hell yes, I will. It has nothing to do with pretending. This is a REAL watch. I wear it, it tells the time and it looks GREAT.

The first thing I tell someone if they ask me about it is that it's a replica, and "can you believe it? it's solid and looks great" The next thing I tell them is how much the real one costs, and what a quality rep costs. The dawning light in their eyes is heart warming to me.

I put it to YOU, danzeman, that as someone who only buys Gen that YOU are the one fooling yourself that you have anything better than I.

[danzeman22]

.I put it to YOU, danzeman, that as someone who only buys Gen that YOU are the one fooling yourself that you have anything better than I.

When did i claim i had anything better than you? That aside you are intimating a gen is no better than a rep!!!! Just like a replica ferrari is as good as the real deal, well at least the rep owner will tell you that.

I have bought both gen and reps and am now more comfortable with just gens nothing more nothing less, personal preference. So if YOU deduce that i think i am better than you i think you need to have a major rethink.

[maxman]

One thing that I have always wondered about these discussions is that even us WIS visualize Rolex synonymous to money and wealth.

A preowned Rolex costs 2K to 6K (the most popular modern stainless models). I mean, if you're interested in watches and you're a working adult, a few K's isn't a lot of money. Most of us average guys make that much every month.

People "invest" 30K on a silly car and nobody raises an eyelid... and people invest a lot of money to their hobbies. But when you're wearing a $4K Rolex suddenly you must be a rich man. Why the hell is that?

I could understand if we're talking about Patek, JLC or Breguet here... but it's only a lowly modern steel Rolex... not a real high end piece. The rarities and vintages are a different matter of course.

I can only speak for myself. I think that $30.000 for a car Is cheep by todays standards,a loaded Honda Civic can run around $22-23.000, A HONDA CIVIC. Thats why know one really bats a eye at a $30.000 car anymore. But a $4000.00 anywatch Is something completly different In my eyes. I just cant justify that kind of scrach on a watch. Thats just my opinion and nothing more Mike

[Jkay]

Don't generalize my statements to indirectly support your case; Yes, I'd rather have a Super Rep at 1/10th the cost of the Gen, and send it off to a Community artisan for servicing, rather than a $900 "dip and swish" by apathetic minimum-wagers at a Rolex AD. This doesn't mean I am saying "gens are the same as reps". That would be an insane statement. There are brass monkey POS reps out there which stain your skin green and get freaky with your GF while you're at work.

Gen watch companies want my business? Fine, then don't insult me with pricing that has a lot more to do with marketing than substance, and then hand me over to your dealership network which supplies substandard services for king's ransom prices.

This is the reason I only bring my car to a trusted local mechanic. Audi/Porsche dealership burned the interior with a cigarette and refused to acknowledge it. By not replacing a $300 piece of trimwork, they screwed themselves out of $15k in service business. This is the mentality you get from luxury sales and service. This is what needs to end if they want my money.

[danzeman22]

Don't generalize my statements to indirectly support your case; Yes, I'd rather have a Super Rep at 1/10th the cost of the Gen, and send it off to a Community artisan for servicing, rather than a $900 "dip and swish" by apathetic minimum-wagers at a Rolex AD. This doesn't mean I am saying "gens are the same as reps". That would be an insane statement. There are brass monkey POS reps out there which stain your skin green and get freaky with your GF while you're at work. :yuk:Gen watch companies want my business? Fine, then don't insult me with pricing that has a lot more to do with marketing than substance, and then hand me over to your dealership network which supplies substandard services for king's ransom prices. This is the reason I only bring my car to a trusted local mechanic. Audi/Porsche dealership burned the interior with a cigarette and refused to acknowledge it. By not replacing a $300 piece of trimwork, they screwed themselves out of $15k in service business. This is the mentality you get from luxury sales and service. This is what needs to end if they want my money.

I respect your opinion but from my older university days i think you value different sets of product attributes when searching for a product. You associate with the brand but don't want to pay the price as you don't perceive quality and value for money. That is fair enough and you are probably satisfying your basic needs (maslow= safety, physiological while still achieving your esteem needs)...

Also was in no way twisting your words to support my case, simply stating the facts as you present them. To some 7 grand is not that much for a watch that will last 10 or 20 years and still have value at the end of that period. Gens hold their value and in some cases appreciate, a rep is still a rep no matter how "super" it is.

Don't take me the wrong way but i have enjoyed reps and don't hold any grudges towards people who wear them.

This post below is great and worthy of a +1

Wow, some excellent feedback from both sides. Thanks everyone. I get the impression (and perhaps appropriately so) that most of the folks who own the gens are less apt to sport the reps publicly, and those of us who can only afford the reps (but fancy themselves into thinking them indistinguishable to 99% of people, me included), are perhaps more likely to wear them (albeit with sensible discretion).

I bought an IWC rep this year, but only wore it publicly maybe 2-3 times before I sold it (apparently I agreed, it was trying to be something I'm not, it just never felt right, despite my admiration of the design/its beauty), whereas my rep Omega PO with rubber strap is worn daily (I really dont have any problems with this one, as I feel the gen is within my grasp but I'm perfectly happy with the rep). Personally I've never had anyone question one of my reps, so I'll not be labeled as one of the types to not admit as such if/when asked. No shame in explaining "its a custom watch, etc etc" especially if its an unbranded rep like the PAM I just bought. Its so true that most folks never notice or are indifferent.

Personally I always notice watches, always have for some reason. Not in terms of making a socioeconomic evaluation of the people I come across (far from it), just a fan of watches is all. I make it a habit of complimenting people on their timepieces if I see something I admire (especially if its uncommon). People always love that. Not just the overpriced gens either. A buddy of mine bought a Suunto with all kinds data measuring capabilities, very cool. For the record I dont wear or sport any other jewelry and typically make it a point not to wear branded clothing. For some reason, I do love me a nice watch though.

As for the moral implications/human rights issues, unfortunately I feel this applies to so many things we as consumers take for granted, beyond reps. Nonetheless a very important subject and obviously something I didnt consider when starting the topic, but I'm glad it was raised.

I'm still trying to determine how or why I'm an idiot for paying cash for a used car. Its a really nice/great performing car with a solid motor, and had low mileage from single owner (I ended up paying about 60% less than what he paid retail). I absolutely love not having monthly payments, a real win/win to me. My home is my gold mine as far as tax breaks are concerned. But then again I'm a small fish in a big pond. In any case, wasnt my intention to dismiss or discredit the folks who do lease. To each his own.

My guesstimated middle class percentages are clearly rejected. Point taken. Obviously definitions vary as to what qualifies, and everything is subjective. Wasnt my intention to make political implications aligned with the current administration. Whatever your definitions, the middle class is a large group, and I dont feel (being a member of this group) that our society is as class conscious as they may be in some EU nations. If I'm way off base here, fair enough.

Fakemaster, thanks for making me laugh out loud, and Wombat247, great posts. All this great feedback hopefully only strengthens each of ours appreciation for this diverse forum and our shared passion for watches.

(in terms of cars: i am talking from a purely business point of view(tax breaks, capital structure etc..), if it is a family car that you will keep cash is king and can lead to some great deals.The comment i made led to people playing the man and not the ball which is the issue of this conversation.)

[By-Tor]

One good thing about preowned steel sports Rolexes is that they don't depreciate much at all (if you find a good deal). Unlike many other luxury items the actual cost of longtime ownership isn't bad at all.

But the best reps are excellent watches and I think people don't give them enough respect. I have 3 $2k - $6k gens and my ETA Breitling Steelfish replica feels every bit as good as them. It has excellent finish and details.

People put the reps down because they think that Chinese can't make a good product. They absolutely can (if they just put some QC and effort in it). Other reason gen owners tend to act "snobbishly" towards reps is that they somehow want to justify their super expensive gen purchase to themselves. It's just human nature... I just admit it doesn't make any sense. They're toys.

Same thing when people are buying $70K Mercedes off-road vehicles... because the road to their summer cottage is so bumpy. Blah blah blah, etc.

I think Ubi nailed it perfectly. They're just watches and almost no one will ever notice them anyway. Just enjoy them all... I know I do.