TeeJay Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 They know how accurate reps have become. Look at Hublot's site, they compare gens to the reps to keep thier customers informed. I have seen this same information passed along to their AD's along with other brands following suit. If someone is worried about being called out for wearing a rep, then maybe they should reconsidering wearing it because obviously they are not wearing it for themselves. Absolutely spot on, brother I wear watches which I like because I want to wear them, not because I'm looking for 100% accuracy, or to attract the attention of others... If I was bothered with accuracy, I wouldn't wear my Snowflake dial Tudor without the Snowflake hands (which I do plan on obtaining eventually for the project) but I like how it looks, the dial is clearer, and more luminous than the baked dial on my vintage Sub, meaning that's the watch best suited for my needs, so that's what I'm wearing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Absolutely spot on, brother I wear watches which I like because I want to wear them, not because I'm looking for 100% accuracy, or to attract the attention of others... If I was bothered with accuracy, I wouldn't wear my Snowflake dial Tudor without the Snowflake hands (which I do plan on obtaining eventually for the project) but I like how it looks, the dial is clearer, and more luminous than the baked dial on my vintage Sub, meaning that's the watch best suited for my needs, so that's what I'm wearing Exactly Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Exactly Mike I have to admit, I can't see anyone here trying to pass a rep off as a gen (unless the person making the enquiry is a complete ass-hat, thus not deserving the courtesy of the truth anyway) but there're definitely those out there who would try and pass off a rep as a gen. My wife's bio-dad (who had the good grace to die before we got married, so I've never had to call him my father in law ) was definitely the kind who would pass off a rep as a gen. The scumbag left my mother in law in a load of debt when they divorced, and has now done the same thing to his widow, who never saw through his lies... People like that get found out in the end, and payback's a bitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Absolutely spot on, brother I wear watches which I like because I want to wear them, not because I'm looking for 100% accuracy, or to attract the attention of others... If I was bothered with accuracy, I wouldn't wear my Snowflake dial Tudor without the Snowflake hands (which I do plan on obtaining eventually for the project) but I like how it looks, the dial is clearer, and more luminous than the baked dial on my vintage Sub, meaning that's the watch best suited for my needs, so that's what I'm wearing Good points TJ ... accuracy is a good goal .. in fact we should strive for perfection in everything we do.. but the love and personal passion for watches supersedes what others may or may not think of them .... AC Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Good points TJ ... accuracy is a good goal .. in fact we should strive for perfection in everything we do.. but the love and personal passion for watches supersedes what others may or may not think of them .... AC Lani Absolutely so, I'd like to get Snowflake hands for my project, simply so I can say that I've built a project 'to specification', rather than just cobbling something together, but, as you say, love and personal passion, and my appreciation for the Snowflake dial itself, that supersedes any need for accuracy to gen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdkno Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 For the sake of debate TJ.... I believe the item in question is by all accounts 'counterfeited' therefore making it not only illegal but misrepresenting the very brands that the AD's are "authorized" to "protect" ... Not knocking your side as I think everyone here, myself included, are of the "Have a bit of common sense and just don't wear your rep to an AD" frame of mind. That out of the way, your comment about the AD's being authorized to protect the various brands they sell brings up a good point. To what extent is the AD, be it the store owner, manager, sales clerk, ect., willing to go to protect that brand? On the same note, to what degree are they "authorized" to protect that brand? An XXX rep is no different than let’s say a Factory 5 Shelby Cobra rep. They are both tangible items for personal use by the owner which replicate something that they are not. One might say Rolex and the other Shelby but legally they are the same. The AD has no more "authority" to confiscate your rep than good old Carroll does to steal your car considering Shelby is just as much a brand as Rolex. We have covered the court system, legalities, and the "victim" going to varying lengths to take their property back; however there is one end we did not cover. In the US at least we have overlooked the single most important part of the process, the responding LEO(Law Enforcement Officer). That is if the situation escalates that far, which it would have to before we could ever get to court systems and legalities. The responding LEO(S) will be tasked with making a few decisions that they alone are not legally at liberty to make which just so happen to side with the customer. LEO walks in, the AD tells the LEO that you came into their store wearing a rep XXX and they seized it. At that point they just admitted to the LEO that they took your personal property without your consent, that’s Theft no matter how you look at it. Reps are not illegal to own in the US, only manufacture and sell, therefore the officer has to side with the customer. From this point, trying to avoid paperwork, the LEO would probably suggest the AD give the watch back to the customer and the customer to be on his way. If the AD refuses to give back the rep then the officer has no choice but to effect an arrest on whichever person at the AD decides to "fall on the sword" for the XXX brand protection. The rep will be taken and kept as evidence, the AD's "sacrificial lamb" will be headed to central booking, and the customer will be going home after making a statement. From here the AD or brand XXX could go to court and argue the fact that the watch is a rep blah, blah, blah and probably have the theft charges reduced/dismissed but still who at the AD wants to deal with a theft charge? So while we are doing the whole "Point" "Counter-Point" thing on the legality of reps vs. the ability of the AD to confiscate, we must realize that the initial response of the LEO will play a much more significant role than any other factor here. In the eyes of the Law one crime does not justify another baring any exigent circumstances. For example if your neighbor stole something of yours and you broke into his house to get it back, you would be no less guilty of B&E as he is of the original theft. To that end the responding officer can not interpret the law as he sees fit. He can not make the decision on the spot that one crime justifies another, thats for the courts to decide. It is his job to enforce the law as it is written, which in the case of a confiscated rep takes the side of the rep wearer not the AD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Not knocking your side as I think everyone here, myself included, are of the "Have a bit of common sense and just don't wear your rep to an AD" frame of mind. That out of the way, your comment about the AD's being authorized to protect the various brands they sell brings up a good point. To what extent is the AD, be it the store owner, manager, sales clerk, ect., willing to go to protect that brand? On the same note, to what degree are they "authorized" to protect that brand? An XXX rep is no different than let Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdkno Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Lani, Hell no I am not going to try and prove it haha. I was just stating what would acctually happen wayyyyy before any court rooms or litigation. I posted the same sentiment as you as far as the LEO not even wanting to hassel with the paperwork and court appearances over something as trivial as this, I know I would not want to. My personal opinion if you go into the AD and they take your watch, chalk it up as a loss,tuck your tail and leave. Even though you could get the law involved and get your watch back it really is not going to be worth the $300 or so to replace the rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Not knocking your side as I think everyone here, myself included, are of the "Have a bit of common sense and just don't wear your rep to an AD" frame of mind. That out of the way, your comment about the AD's being authorized to protect the various brands they sell brings up a good point. To what extent is the AD, be it the store owner, manager, sales clerk, ect., willing to go to protect that brand? On the same note, to what degree are they "authorized" to protect that brand? An XXX rep is no different than let Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well.. speaking from experience" .. we can all agree that most high end AD's have their head up their arse, when it come to reading people.. for I have known millionaires to dress in faded jeans and t-shirts that look like their ready for goodwill.. that being said .. there was a time a time that I visited an AD contemplating purchasing the DSSD .. (I ended up with 2 vintage genuine that I do not regret) anyway.. I asked the "salesclerk" to view the piece.. there were many tourist shopping and the clerk looked at my tats my glasses with the clip on shades.. (my eye's are light sensitive) then surveyed my build .. she then called the GM.. and with a slight nod.. like I was to enter the "backroom" consented with his nod to the clerk.. who then unlocked the drawer to bring out the DSSD... now I noticed many customers sitting looking at various watches.. no problem.. so I was a select customer.. .. well, with this great customer service I lost my appetite for any purchases.. I asked for a brochure, and was told that they are not given out for purposes of counterfeiting .. imagine that.. keep in mind I was not wearing a watch.. my point in all of this is I can have somewhat of an attitude myself when people are overly obtuse.. and if I were wearing a rep and someone did "try" to confiscate it.. I would not allow such a thing to happen.. SO MY WHOLE POINT TO THIS TREAD.. is "Don't pick a fight unless you are willing to see it through".. that means the Law.. the Courts the Attorney's fees.. just don't go there.. cause in the end although you may be 100% right in every way.. you loose in the end.. right or wrong.. AC L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 If Lanikai's whole point is "don't pick a fight unless you're willing to see it through", then my whole point is the advise my grandmother has given me my whole life. Always be careful, never be wreckless. (which i was 2 years ago).. Lanikai seems a bit more of hardliner when it comes to his points.. I tend to sit the fence when it comes to "black and white" issues such as this. Nevertheless, advice given is advice considered for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bike Mike Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 My personal opinion if you go into the AD and they take your watch, chalk it up as a loss,tuck your tail and leave. Even though you could get the law involved and get your watch back it really is not going to be worth the $300 or so to replace the rep. This really has been the point all along. You could get the law involved, but it has the potential to cost you more then $300. I have seen this a handful of times. Maybe 5-6 times over the course of about 3 years at one AD I go to. Twice I saw the rep owner Try to trade their rep in for a gen. On both accounts the sales person doubted the authenticity but still gave the potential customers the benefit of the doubt. The sales person called the manager over (who I was talking to as he was a personal friend) to take a look at the piece. The manager stated that the watch was “of dubious” origin, but still gave the customers the benefit of the doubt, even asking them for papers and items to prove authenticity. Since they could not provide any type of paperwork, the manager called out one of his watch techs. The tech did not even look over the piece, he simply removed the case back and verified the pieces to be fake in front of the customer and even pointed out why (I know one was a Rolex GMT, the other I do not know). The sales person stated they are confiscating the pieces and asked the customers to leave the premises. Both did a about-face and walked out the front door with their tail between their legs. They said nothing. The time I saw the rep watch being picked up off the counter by the sales person, and studied, the sales person stated “this watch is fake, we have to confiscate it”. The owner in a very cocky voice said “Yeah. Pretty good one isn’t it.” The sales person tossed it in the box with the rest and nothing more was said, the gentleman walked away. I just sat their and laugh thinking what dumba$$! Thinking how stupid some people wearing a rep into a AD. I have gotten to know the assistant manager at my local Tourneaus very well and I have asked him, “What they do if someone comes in sporting a rep.” He simply replied, “If we can verify and take it we will but avoid escalated confrontation.” Jokingly I told him I would bring mine into show him. To which he just replaied, "Go ahead, I will pair it up with the real one and I know you will buy it." I called him a bastard for taking advantage of my weakness. Being write or wrong this has happened. I live at my AD’s as my friends work their in one way or another so I get to see some good stuff other then just the watches. I also recall this being discussed over at TRC where the same had happened. Great thread by the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 There is so much [censored] in this thread I feel like I am at the rodeo. I feel more for the noobs who may be reading this than I would if TTK came back with his own 're-tooled' customer service thread. Honestly. It reminds me of that Brad Paisley song; I work down at The Pizza Pit And I drive an old Hyundai I still live with my mom and dad I'm five foot three and overweight I'm a sci: fi fanatic, mild asthmatic Never been to second base But there's a whole 'nother me That you need to see Go check out Myspace. 'Cause online I'm out in Hollywood I'm six foot five and I look damn good I drive a Maserati, I'm a black belt in karate And I love a good glass of wine It turns girls on that I'm mysterious I tell 'em I don't want nothing serious 'Cause even on a slow day I can have a three-way chat With two women at one time. I'm so much cooler online I'm so much cooler online. I get home I kiss my mom And she fixes me a snack I head down to my basement bedroom And fire up my Mac In real life the only time I've ever even been to L.A. Was when I got the chance with the marching band To play tuba in the Rose Parade. But online I live in Malibu I pose for Calvin Klein I've been in GQ I'm single and I'm rich And I got a set of six-pack abs that would blow your mind It turns girls on that I'm mysterious I tell 'em I don't want nothing serious 'Cause even on a slow day I can have a three-way chat With two women at one time. I'm so much cooler online Yeah, I'm cooler online. When you've got my kind of stats It's hard to get a date Let alone a real girlfriend But I grow another foot and lose a bunch of weight Every time I log in. Online I'm out in Hollywood I'm six foot five and I look damn good Even on a slow day I can have a three-way chat With two women at one time. I'm so much cooler online Yeah, I'm cooler online I'm so much cooler online Yeah, I'm cooler online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 There is so much bullshit in this thread I feel like I am at the rodeo. As our esteemed leader say's .. Deja Moooo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bike Mike Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Not knocking your side as I think everyone here, myself included, are of the "Have a bit of common sense and just don't wear your rep to an AD" frame of mind. That out of the way, your comment about the AD's being authorized to protect the various brands they sell brings up a good point. To what extent is the AD, be it the store owner, manager, sales clerk, ect., willing to go to protect that brand? On the same note, to what degree are they "authorized" to protect that brand? An XXX rep is no different than lets say a Factory 5 Shelby Cobra rep. They are both tangible items for personal use by the owner which replicate something that they are not. One might say Rolex and the other Shelby but legally they are the same. The AD has no more "authority" to confiscate your rep than good old Carroll does to steal your car considering Shelby is just as much a brand as Rolex. Good way of putting it. But you also know that Shelby and Factory 5 Racing spent years in legal litigation. Even though Shelby held no rights to the look of the cars, Ford & Shelby holds the right to the Cobra name. Therefore any company using COBRA as a name plate on a vehicle, unlicensed, faces a potential lawsuit as it is counterfeit or copyright infringement which could include forfeiture of property. Same could go for Rolex towards the owner/sell/producer of reps. Granted Carroll and Rolex my not have the authority to take, but through legal process they can obtain. I am surprised no one has brought up the idea of, if the AD can not take my rep, what allows customs agents to (outside of government backing)? They are taking your property you paid for are they not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) I should really get out more. I really should make friends at Tourneau's so that I could stop by everyday and loiter and then laugh out loud at customers that have gotten their watches confiscated..... and then afterwards I could chummingly joke with the assistant manager about my weakness for buying real watches only if he flashes them in front of my face... and then I'll call him an ass for calling out my weakness for buying things impulsively.. The only thing missing from that story was.. and then you decided to buy the store... I'm being completely facetious obviously. But honestly, you just took the conversation to another level BikeMike.. I just can't picture anyone actually really doing that.... just like i can't picture a cardboard box in the corner of the store with the words "piece of junk confiscated fakies" filled to the brim with reps.. At least that's the picture you painted in my head.. p.s. pardon me for sounding brash.. I'm not saying you're not telling the truth.. It's just like i said.. I personally can't imagine a situation like that.. and if i could.. i probably wouldn't be on a replica forum telling people about it Edited October 1, 2009 by plaifender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Good way of putting it. But you also know that Shelby and Factory 5 Racing spent years in legal litigation. Even though Shelby held no rights to the look of the cars, Ford & Shelby holds the right to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bike Mike Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well if that is the picture I painted in your head I appologize. Really what the hell do you care what I do with my time? Who are you in my life? No one! But obvisously I made enough of a impression for you to make a comment. The only reason I have gotten to know the sales rep so well is because it turned out we have a lot in common. Racing motorcyles, snowboarding, skydiving, etc. Do we not gravitate to those we share common interests with? Hmmmm.......is that why we are all not here? Also, where did I once say "laugh out loud at customers that have gotten their watches confiscated" as you put it? Oh wait I did not, you assumed I did. I could actually careless as it none of my business. All I have done here is share a story, what I have whitnessed. Take it for what it is worth and how you like. Maybe you do need to get out more, because in my short time on this Earth I have seen some pretty dumb [censored]! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 ETC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) You didn't say the following: "i just sat their and laughed and then thought you dumba$$", "the salesperson tossed it in the box with all the rest" anyways.. regardless of what you said, I apologize for what might have seemed like a personal attack.. I should've chosen my words more carefully. I was pointing out that the spirit/tone of your story (not the facts) seemed in-congruent and out of place with that of the forum in general. In any case, sorry bout that. Edited October 1, 2009 by plaifender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 As our esteemed leader say's .. Deja Moooo... All the glitz and glam pizzazz and jazz of this unforgettable topic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I really am glad that I live in a country where I don't ever need to give any thought to things like this..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I really am glad that I live in a country where I don't ever need to give any thought to things like this..... Do you live in spain too? ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 LOL. We're fast approaching the season when I wish that I did, but I'm a smidgeon farther north, in Norway. Where buying and owning reps are perfectly legal and where ADs would be locked up if they decided to swipe your property. Yay for living in a "socialist" country and not a police state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I'll second that yay for our democratic-socialist government.. GO SPAIN! Donde estan los espa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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