highoeyazmuhudee Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Even the crown guards are very different looking. And the bezel ring seems a tad shorter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosnik Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 how know the exact difference from 16610 and 14060? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTimez Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) Good Q Rosnik, well we of course want a 1:1 piece, but are we actually going to be truly bothered if it's 98% near. I think 16610 case would be the way to go, imho ... unless somebody is willing to let me borrow a gen 14060 but I dont exactly see that happening... then also will the factory perfect it, and will they perfect it in time (1st round, 2nd round etc) I would love to take on this project but I need help, I am a dealer there are members such as Frank (star69) and Rosnik that know much more about rolex watches history and detail than I do. So if all can chime in and also offer realistic solutions, then maybe who knows we can build an RWG 14060, I am willing to work with people who know what their talking about and we can work together. If the project turns out profitable I'm more than willing to share the proceeds with those who can make it happen... Edited October 5, 2009 by EuroTimez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimede Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Good Q Rosnik, well we of course want a 1:1 piece, but are we actually going to be truly bothered if it's 98% near. I think 16610 case would be the way to go, imho ... unless somebody is willing to let me borrow a gen 14060 but I dont exactly see that happening... then also will the factory perfect it, and will they perfect it in time (1st round, 2nd round etc) I would love to take on this project but I need help, I am a dealer there are members such as Frank (star69) and Rosnik that know much more about rolex watches history and detail than I do. So if all can chime in and also offer realistic solutions, then maybe who knows we can build an RWG 14060, I am willing to work with people who know what their talking about and we can work together. If the project turns out profitable I'm more than willing to share the proceeds with those who can make it happen... Hello, I have a genuine 14060th can be measured well, shooting well, tell me what you need to make a 1 = 1 case. T.Y. Archimede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosnik Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Archimede! Can you please update this picture with 14060 measures? Please take measure on the same lines. I find this picture too: Bud need some checking on one GEn 14060 .... PS: Some picture are welcome too! For EuroTimez: Your idea is great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 That chart about sums it up. The 14060 is off a mm or so just about everywhere. However, even as Chris suggested, using current offerings could get us 98% there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think the Eromariner V3 would be a good case. If you were to fit a 2824-2 in there, I think you would get the correct higher crown position. I know BK is doing that on his new WM9 YM. The 93150 bracelet is perfect. So all you need then is the correct dial. For the record, the gen 14060 is slightly smaller than the 16610- smaller bezel, insert, crystal, & case. But a good rep based on the Euro V3 would work fine, IMO. Just need a good dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 quick an dirty : i think the noob-case is closer by size and rehaut (not so deep) - drill lugholes - change 2 non SEL bracelet - remove cylo and put a nice dial in - thats it cheers, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosnik Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 IMO: The 1:1 bezel is a not losing device... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosnik Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 If you were to fit a 2824-2 in there, I think you would get the correct higher crown position. I know BK is doing that on his new WM9 YM. Using 2836-2 is it not possible to got the correct crown higt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 The crown/stem position of the 2824-2 very closely approximates the Rolex 3135. The 2836-2 is lower and similar to the older 3035 movt. Since the rep makers like to use the 2836-2, that's why the crown is too low on the reps which need a higher crown position like the 16610 or the 16234 (Datejust). Any rep that is copying the 3135 movement and using a 2836-2 will have a crown position that is too low (or the rehaut will be too shallow- a common fault of the early 16610 sub reps). I don't know enough about the 14060 which had the 3000 movement or the newer 14060M w/ the COSC 3130 movement, but my guess is that the 3130 is basically a 3135 w/o the date feature and therefore has the high crown position. But crown position doesn't bother me as much as some people. But it is so simple, it would be nice if the rep mfrs would get it right- just use a 2824-2 instead of a 2836-2, it can't be that hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rps Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Chris - '1:1 using a gen 14060'... ? if you build it, they will come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTimez Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 @all thanks for your wonderful input, greatly appriciated. @ aligoat I dont mind the posistion of the crown either, but like Frank said the rehaut might be sligtly deeper, so Stilty suggested (or was it somebody else, a long time ago) if you file down the Rehaut, then the crown or pin would sit technically higher or fit better into an 2824 movement (might need to change tube / redrill the tube hole)... And the reason why 2836-2 is because it's not as scarce as the 2824-2, 95% of the other non-forum replovers, I dont think they care about having an 2836-2 or an 2824-2, it just need to be a quality movement, and both are in terms of quality the same. (however 2824-2 being scarcer and more expensive). The noobmariner case won't do, because the factories (noobfactory) decided to only make it now with engravings... so non-engraved versions aren't available... Also the feel of the noob and construction doesn't feel right, if compared to an EURO, also the glass is lower, u turn the bezel and it doesn't feel authentic, and there is a big crown etched at 6 oclock which isn't suppose to be there... (as I believe the 14060 doesn't have an etched crown) and even if the etched crown suppose to be sooo tiny, not compared to the noob-etched crown... then you need lugholes etc.. So more disadvantages than advantages in my humble opinion. I do however have approx 50-60 un-engraved noobcases lying around, so if we go for that option... we will only have limited edition pieces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Although Rolex is my favorite brand of watch, I don't understand all the discussion over this entry level mundane watch that can be bought pre owned for around $3k. It seems simple enough to replicate but like the 16610, far too common with far too many flaws. It seems that I have been around the replica boards for 7 years or so and ever since my first post there has been a daily post somewhere about a 16610 and the crown guards, date font, magnification, etc. It seems like a step backward to be still debating the most ubiquitous replica only now without a date feature. I don't mean to stir up any [censored] but cmon, there are so many other great watches out there. Do we really need another sub? I own 10 or 11 Rolexes plus a bunch that are retired in pieces and only one is a submariner. BTW it happens to be two tone......... Not a 16610, 14060 in my collection and no desire for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted October 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I don't know if I agree with you on that one. I really like the clean look of the no-date 14060 but I am certainly not interested in buying one for $3k. There is just something about that particular watch that I really like. It's simplicity I guess. However, I would agree with you that it's not worth it if they can't get it right. This seems like it should be the simplest one to rep, and yet the factories refuse to even attempt to get it right. Just my 0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 @jfreeman420 Different strokes for different folks. The appeal of the 14060 is its simplicity. Thus, my plea for a NON-COSC version. In theory this should be way easier to replicate than the 16610. Even if the rep comes in @ $300ish, that is still a far cry from $3000. IMHO - Reps like the Explorer I, 14060, AirKing's, etc. Should be perfected by now. They are so simple to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
explor_er Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hope you guys can work this out! I'm definitely in for a NON-COSC or COSC 14060 version!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 IMHO - Reps like the Explorer I, 14060, AirKing's, etc. Should be perfected by now. They are so simple to begin with. That is my point. There should be perfect reps by now, but the most simple mundane watches have thee most flaws. Is it because there is less market for these or is it because there is more market for these watches and they can make more money with more variations? Or is it just the fact that Rolex will come after the factories for a perfect rep and the inconsistencies keep the makers out of jail? The bottom line is these discussions are repetitive and futile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 The bottom line is these discussions are repetitive and futile. Not if they lead to a product that is acceptable. Half-full vs half-empty. Given Chris's response this could gain traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosnik Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 The bottom line is these discussions are repetitive and futile. Your upper OT lines in this discussion was futile too. thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perry563 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Chris: There is no doubt that if you, the factory and the incredibly knowledgable posters on this board work together and REALLY rep this watch right you will sell hundreds of them. Its a simple watch and should be easily repped but at the same time dont skimp. I remember Silex getting everyone excited over a BOND sub a few years ago and although a decent rep for the money it was WAY off from what it could have been. Lets make a solid rep with proper lug hole size, proper size spring bars and perfect fitting bracelet end lugs. If you can make it right and it comes in around 300 bucks...Ill buy TWO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 And I may get the a21j version, you know what a cheapskate I am! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTimez Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Hi, well to create a perfect case I need a gen sample, (pics will do for now, please from all angles etc), I am already in contact with a factory that is willing to make the dial together with me, even superlume is possible (if enough are interested). I think as base we should use the 1:1 case design, V3 euromariner, it does have maybe a few minor flaws but acceptable in my opinion or can be modded afterwards, or if somebody knows some good connection where to make the lugholes bigger then you can send it to him, or maybe we can work together. The base case will be the 1:1 case, so it's alittle expensive as a base as I buy this from the MBW / MBK factory, made from higher grade steel etc. Then we need to swap out the Crystal with a clark crystal without etched rolex crown at 6, so this will be a made-for-gen-aftermarket part, this needs to be installed and ordered and of course will add up to the price (as if i buy whole-sale crystal from factory in china it's much cheaper then I buy aftermarket gen Clark Crystal from USA factory). The lugholes are already in the case, but I think needs to be a fraction of mm bigger, so this I cannot do or at a descent price, so this will be one of the flaw, but I think acceptable. The rehaut is i think slightly deeper, as it's an 16610 case-base... while the 14060 is more shallow. This is modifiable by shaving the rehaut (but I am not going to do this, so have to be after-sale mod) The case dimension is near but not exactly as somebody mentioned the case base a fraction of mm smaller. So I give the rough stuff, if all are acceptable, it will be a 98% perfect rep. So all I do is create the dial and get the case and aftermarket parts together. We add aftermarket made for gen parts, CLARK CRYSTAL + 1 piece crystal holder (like gen), has 1:1 bezel design, thick tube (gen crown will fit this case), aftermarket made for gen -Watchmaterial pearl-, 93150 hollow midlinks + endlinks (what nr ??? ) from MBK MBW factory. We can make this model if there is enough interest in the above specs, in 1. DG2813 2. DG4813 3. COPY ETA 4. GEN ETA (verified and real genuine). We can make the dial in rep-lume, or SUPERLUME, but there needs to be enough interest and it wont be super-cheap either, if we want to use 1:1 case and aftermarket parts and MBK stuff, as is those are already expensive if you just buy it separately. BUt I am sure I can work out a deal if we can get a group-sale organized... If we want to design a real 1:1 14060, I need to borrow somebody GEN 14060... then possibly we can CNC it, but that we need to discuss again... Let us fig out how many are interested if we use existing parts... stated above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elepaolo Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) I'm in, even if I'm a bit worried... Edited October 10, 2009 by elepaolo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I think this is a very good formula for a 14060, Chris. With a superlumed dial and hands it would be great. I think using a Euro V3 case is fine because aftermarket and gen parts are much more readily available for the 16610 than the 14060 and I doubt anyone can really tell the difference between the case sizes w/o a pair of calipers. Look forward to hearing more about this project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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