fijikid Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 I've searched for this info and found nothing - doesn't mean its not there, but I'm just not putting the right words together I guess. So, the question is this: my U1 seconds hand really stutters badly - I'm sure some are worse than others and I think mines on the poor end of the scale. Can I: open her up and put more brake pressure on the second hand to keep more constant gear contact? or can I upgrade the movement keeping all other things the same? DG4813 is thicker so alignment is prolly an issue, right? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Movement replacement is the only viable option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fijikid Posted November 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 First off, thanks for that perfect ass, Gioarmani! Such a nice ass. Your advice though, not so much. When you say replace the movement - no problem, but with what? Another 2813? A miyota 8215? Same problems, no? Brake adjustment? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller? I know the movement's like $16 at Ofrei, but it's gonna be the same problem, no? I don't really want to sell this watch and just buy the Swiss ETA version (or asian clone ETA). I'd rather mess with this one. Somebody wanna help me destroy my movement? Or supply a 2813 diagram? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilSub Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 (edited) Here you are: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=207931 The second hand pinion friction spring is what causes the stutter. You could bend it a little to increase the pressure on the second hand pinion that would make the second hand run smoother. If you change the movement the ST16 movement should be a good match to the DG28 and the friction spring on that movement is easier to access since the ST16 has a separate auto winding bridge. See this thread: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=298990 Good luck on fixing your movement! Edited November 29, 2009 by MilSub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 The DG4813 is a 28k direct fit replacement. You will probably need the high pinion version, which can be hard to find though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fijikid Posted November 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 OK - I installed a new kitchen sink today and I tried to reduce the stutter of my DG 2813. Guess which one I performed successfully. Exactly. My wife is thrilled with her new 'farmhouse' sink and I completely [censored] [censored] the movement, culminating in losing one of the tiny blued screws that hold the winding bridge on. Just an FYI - getting the winding bridge back on was nigh on impossible - especially after I'd bent back the second hand brake (perhaps a little too robustly!). Anywho - totally screwed the pooch on this one. Two options: Someone can send me a winding bridge screw from their nackered 2813. Someone can send me a junked 2813 movement from which I can remove said screw. Someone can tell me definitively if I can drop a 4813 into this watch or do I have to swap out parts from the 2813 like the canon pinion? Anybody? PS: thanks Milsub for the link - I really tried to do this but once the winding bridge was off I couldn't get all the little gears back into their appropriate jewels on the the winding bridge. FRUSTRATING!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fijikid Posted November 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 The DG4813 is a 28k direct fit replacement. You will probably need the high pinion version, which can be hard to find though. Hi Andrew. Thanks for jumping in here. I'm aware of the canon pinion problem, but I've also read that the stem holes may be different sizes not to mention the 2813 is slightly slimmer as well. Would love to put a 4813 in there but not if it's going to be more headaches. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilSub Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 OK - I installed a new kitchen sink today and I tried to reduce the stutter of my DG 2813. Guess which one I performed successfully. Exactly. My wife is thrilled with her new 'farmhouse' sink and I completely [censored] [censored] the movement, culminating in losing one of the tiny blued screws that hold the winding bridge on. Just an FYI - getting the winding bridge back on was nigh on impossible - especially after I'd bent back the second hand brake (perhaps a little too robustly!). Anywho - totally screwed the pooch on this one. Two options: Someone can send me a winding bridge screw from their nackered 2813. Someone can send me a junked 2813 movement from which I can remove said screw. Someone can tell me definitively if I can drop a 4813 into this watch or do I have to swap out parts from the 2813 like the canon pinion? Anybody? PS: thanks Milsub for the link - I really tried to do this but once the winding bridge was off I couldn't get all the little gears back into their appropriate jewels on the the winding bridge. FRUSTRATING!! I'm sorry to hear that. But you should probably be ok with just two screws holding the bridge in place. At least untill you can get a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Ofrei sells packages of assorted screws (not blued, but I doubt that anyone will notice) that will contain some that fit your bridge. Try Bergeon Assortment of Screws, 10229 Watch Bridge Screws (BERG-10229). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member X Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 This thread has got some great info in it, thanks guys I think the stutter is a very common problem - I just wish it was easier to fix! 4813 upgrade is what I'd want to do but it seems they are difficult to come by. I think Eurotimez has them though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fijikid Posted November 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Thanks, Freddy. I'll give it a try, even though I'm dubious I can get the winding bridge back on correctly. Ofrei sells packages of assorted screws (not blued, but I doubt that anyone will notice) that will contain some that fit your bridge. Try Bergeon Assortment of Screws, 10229 Watch Bridge Screws (BERG-10229). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Good data: I found this link and summary somewhat reassuring. http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/invicta/invicta.html Summary The "Hesitating Second Hand", observed on Invicta and other brands of watches is simply a characteristic of the "Indirect Seconds" type of movement design and in no way has any effect on the watch accuracy or timekeeping. If any watch company wanted to do something about it, the simplest, and really the only practical solution, would be to poise the second-hand. However, tens of millions of Indirect Seconds type watches of many different manufacture, in all grades from the cheapest pin pallet to high grade Swiss watches have been made in the past 50 years or so, and have been used with no problems at all. Indeed, it is hard to imagine how this characteristic could ever be observed during normal wear on the wrist, anyway. One can only assume it was claimed as a problem in an attempt to find fault in a watch which offers such excellent value for money as the Invictas do. So all you owners of Invictas, Omegas or any of the many, many other brands that use the same method for driving the second hand, there's no need to worry about it! and this --if you don't know what you are doing Increasing the tension of the brake spring must be done with great care, as too much tension will start to significantly affect the balance amplitude (from the extra friction in the train), and thus the timekeeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fijikid Posted December 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 This is all fine and good - I've read all about the indirect seconds engineering shortcomings. However, when your watch appears to stop for 2 seconds at a time (yes, it's that noticeable), the suggestion that "it's hard to imagine how this characteristic could ever be observed during normal wear on the wrist" is totally absurd. I've come to the conclusion that the quality and meshing of the gears on these Chinese movements varies GREATLY. I got one of the bad ones and yes, adding brake pressure is no easy feat. Time for a new movement - guess I'll have to put another DG 2813 into it. I will NEVER buy one of these movement watches again. Good data: I found this link and summary somewhat reassuring. http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/invicta/invicta.html Summary The "Hesitating Second Hand", observed on Invicta and other brands of watches is simply a characteristic of the "Indirect Seconds" type of movement design and in no way has any effect on the watch accuracy or timekeeping. If any watch company wanted to do something about it, the simplest, and really the only practical solution, would be to poise the second-hand. However, tens of millions of Indirect Seconds type watches of many different manufacture, in all grades from the cheapest pin pallet to high grade Swiss watches have been made in the past 50 years or so, and have been used with no problems at all. Indeed, it is hard to imagine how this characteristic could ever be observed during normal wear on the wrist, anyway. One can only assume it was claimed as a problem in an attempt to find fault in a watch which offers such excellent value for money as the Invictas do. So all you owners of Invictas, Omegas or any of the many, many other brands that use the same method for driving the second hand, there's no need to worry about it! and this --if you don't know what you are doing Increasing the tension of the brake spring must be done with great care, as too much tension will start to significantly affect the balance amplitude (from the extra friction in the train), and thus the timekeeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 The Eurotimez 4813 is the "tall canon" version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fijikid Posted December 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Hey - I know you've been down this road before, so, can you say that the tall canon version is a direct swap for the 2813? I'd love to hear someone say they've swapped them without doing much else (cuz my skillz wit da tweezees be limited ). TIA for any help on this. The Eurotimez 4813 is the "tall canon" version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 The more you try the more you learn, the ET 4813 should be a direct swap in a rolly as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railroad Watch Posted December 29, 2022 Report Share Posted December 29, 2022 On 11/29/2009 at 3:24 PM, gioarmani said: Movement replacement is the only viable option. +1 --->>> It's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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