mengshi Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 New here but has been going around the Rep forum for a while. Mainly interested in Panerais. I have come across DSN frequently and I have not doubt his reps are actually quite good. He was probably one of the first to fix the cannon pinion problem going by his pictures. However, I do find his prices are exorbitant for reps! The most uncomfortable I have been is the claim he makes that he uses Swiss Unitas/ETA 6497 with Swan Neck. As far as I know and have researched, only Panerai makes this mod and such movement is not available from ETA/Unitas. This makes him a crook and once a crook always a crook as he would still be using the Asian 6497 with a Swan Neck. He also makes claim that the display back has sapphire crystal. Has anyone ever confirmed this? Before anyone burn me, I'm not saying here that he'll take your money and not send the goods. No. For sending the goods, I have no doubt. So what makes his rep justify the prices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 It's really up to the individual buying his goods.. you need to decide what is of value added and what you would pass on.. mostly all of us at one time or another have purchased from Davidsen.. he is a good source for case backs and hands for projects.. I am not saying all his reps are worth the price.. but that is something you will have to decide.. it's very easy to spend upward of 1K for the projects that members do themselves. .. CG's can cost 150 usd to 180 and up.. cases much more.. FGD's dials are a great deal.. Ziggy's OEM PVD is also a great deal..this hobby is not just about cheap reps anymore.. genuine dials.. Kruzer .. probably has more projects than NASA going one at any given time, and his investments in genuine parts is probably phenomenal.. so you really need to pick and choose what and from whom you do business with.. a lot of members buy only from Davidsen when it comes to Pams.. others source only parts.. Honpo charges what they do.. because they can.. so up to you.. DSN is not a scammer though.. else he wouldn't be on RWG.. Good Luck AC/lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drulee Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Welcome to the rep world. In this world, "Swiss" and "ETA" take on a new meaning. Usually when a movement is referred to as "Swiss" or "ETA", it is full blown ASIAN. And when you see claims that say the watch is 100% (or even 99.9%) accurate to gen, be assured you will be lucky to get one that is maybe 80%, in outer appearance, close to gen. However within the the rep world, there are some dealers who try to provide something close to what they claim. These dealers are usually labeled "trusted", not because they are trust worthy, but because they are not likely to take your money and run, or send you some piece of junk that looks nothing like what was pictured. DSN is a trusted dealer. His watches are more accurate than most, and he also carries some models than no other dealer sells. DSN's prices are actually quite reasonable and not exorbitant at all - don't forget they include shipping and drop when two or more watches are purchased. Most of the sub $200 reps use "ultra-cheap" movements (like the 21J). But DSN's offering only contain the 6497 or Asian 7750, both very good rep movements - especially after being properly serviced. Next, all his rep dials and hands are applied with SuperLuminova, usually costing an additional $120 or more when done by our modders. He also uses above average dials in most cases, and is currently the only titanium auto case provider (well half-decent cases anyway). As far as the "swan neck", it is usually not functional and just added to an ETA 6497 (as are the engraved plates) as a decoration. As far as the claim of his display backs being sapphire, I'd actually never noticed that he claimed this - but the ones I've received from him are definitely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzanooo Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 See below, double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzanooo Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 New here but has been going around the Rep forum for a while. Mainly interested in Panerais. I have come across DSN frequently and I have not doubt his reps are actually quite good. He was probably one of the first to fix the cannon pinion problem going by his pictures. However, I do find his prices are exorbitant for reps! The most uncomfortable I have been is the claim he makes that he uses Swiss Unitas/ETA 6497 with Swan Neck. As far as I know and have researched, only Panerai makes this mod and such movement is not available from ETA/Unitas. This makes him a crook and once a crook always a crook as he would still be using the Asian 6497 with a Swan Neck. He also makes claim that the display back has sapphire crystal. Has anyone ever confirmed this? Before anyone burn me, I'm not saying here that he'll take your money and not send the goods. No. For sending the goods, I have no doubt. So what makes his rep justify the prices? So.... You are saying Dsn is a crook on your first post.... And what makes his rep justify prices? If you have been on here reading for awhile you would know why.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Excellent form, calling someone a crook in post no. 1. And without substantiating it in any way, shape or form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Excellent first post... Crook? Does this make all dealers on here crooks? Get a gen, buddy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad dawg Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Of course the dealers are crooks! That's how this hobby exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snrubb Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I think I've heard enough.... Time to burn you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mengshi Posted December 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 So.... You are saying Dsn is a crook on your first post.... And what makes his rep justify prices? If you have been on here reading for awhile you would know why.... Just frowning on his claims of using Swiss made 6497 with swan neck. Would be OK if he called it Asian 6497. Would you buy a car from someone who claims that the car is using a Mercedes engine when it is not? He also did post a few photos of his watches including the movements in one of the rep forum and they clear show the Asian 6497 movement with swan neck with fake 'engravings', moreover, he kept claiming, at that time, that this movement will soon run out etc, hence justifying his prices. Once the prices went up and the 'market' somehow accepted it, it never came down. Hook, line and sinker. Anyway, being from where I am (Malaysia), there are street markets (tourist area) and even some shops in a big shopping center selling reps. The quality varies and I can tell you that some of them are darn good. You just need to do the leg work and bargain. And read the forums to look for flaws. From what I have seen and handled, having the swan neck movement is very common now and no one charges extra for it. Ditto for the 'engravings'. Options for sapphire are available depending on stock and most sellers will teach you how to test for it and they even have a device to test it. None of them do customization or sell parts as expected. As a measure of the price I paid, I got a titanium rep with sapphire crystal, solid titanium case back, handwind movement for approx. US $72. after bargaining down. The crown guard and pin is done impressively well and tight. I think it even has a tall cannon pinion as it looks nearly flat - probably just needs one of the hands filed down slightly to look right. My main complain is just the lume which is rather poor. The use of the Asian 7750 movement is not uncommon in this pool of Panerais if you know which model to look for. Yes, I know about the Asian 21J movement - Just a tap will stop the second hand momentarily, if you can live with that. The whole issue here is actually the quality control, my major nitpick being the loose crown guard. This is the main reason I'm hesitant buying online unless it is perhaps someone like Getat whom I have emailed asking whether he can ensure the GC is tight. For a price nearly 4x what I paid, I would expect not only a good lume but also a genuine complete overhaul of the movement and timing to make it super-reliable, but logically, buying a Genuine ETA 6497 (only 134 at Ofrei) would be a far better option. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Wow..Can we see some pics of your Ti rep, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 +1 on the pics of the Ti rep mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 So how did you check if your Ti rep really has sapphire as you claim? My bet is that you haven't checked it and that is it just the sellers claim. I hope I am wrong, but for the price 95% chance it is mineral. One of the best and never failing methods is using a electronic diamond tester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 did someone say burn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Can I see a naked bird in those flames or is it just wishful thinking. How expensive are those testers for crystals and where would you source them....Ebay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Can I see a naked bird in those flames or is it just wishful thinking. How expensive are those testers for crystals and where would you source them....Ebay? Where?? I must be blind! Our very own Offshore (WatchBitz) sells these diamond testers, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Where?? I must be blind! May be I have just watched the intros to too many James bond films!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) I don't get it. According to what you said you have access to reps with superior quality and better prices than we can get. As far as I can see you have no need for this forum. Edited December 21, 2009 by fakemaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 As stated above you can get the diamond tester right here on the forum. The link is HERE Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mengshi Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Wow..Can we see some pics of your Ti rep, please? Here you go. No time to take good ones as just came back from work and need to go out soon. One of the shots I try to show the "lens" effect. Some sites say that this is common with reps but I went to try out a 44mm genuine Panerai daylight and the lens effect is there even on a gen. Much less on the 40mm gen Panerai. On mine Only can appreciate it at a rather acute angle perhaps 10-15 degrees. I think the CG pin is nothing to really complain about and from the back it is rather good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 So where are the pics of the Ti rep??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mengshi Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I don't get it. According to what you said you have access to reps with superior quality and better prices than we can get. As far as I can see you have no need for this forum. There is still much to learn and I hope you don't make stupid comments like this anymore. Are you gonna tell the professors he/she has no more use of the library? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mengshi Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Excellent first post... Crook? Does this make all dealers on here crooks? Get a gen, buddy... Clearly you are incapable of reading my posting properly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mengshi Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 So how did you check if your Ti rep really has sapphire as you claim? My bet is that you haven't checked it and that is it just the sellers claim. I hope I am wrong, but for the price 95% chance it is mineral. One of the best and never failing methods is using a electronic diamond tester. Please don't take me for a fool... There are a few ways to check, one of the quickest way is to just flick at the crystal with your finger nail. The mineral glass crystals will emit a high pitch 'clink' whereas a sapphire crystal makes a rather dull "thud". It is easy to try this out with loads of reps at the sellers booth. The more scientific way is to use a crystal tester. I was wearing my genuine swiss diver and the dealer compared the different reading between his mineral glass reps and sapphire reps and my watch. The sapphire on my rep went to a higher level of red than my swiss diver (don't know what this mean - thicker?). The mineral glass went to the orange level. The last way is to try the water drop test but this is not going to endear you to the dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mengshi Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I just like to reiterate the point that I think the prices charged for some reps are a lot more expensive than what it is suppose to be. BTW, getting a gen Pam - this has crossed my mind. The Pam111 costs RM14000 here which works out to be about US3800 at the exchange rate of 3.6. Is a rep worth 10% of a gen? I think not. The most is 5%. The problem with getting a gen here is the darn waiting time and the whole country gets a handful a year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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